US Elections 2012 Part II: The Conventions, Debates and Election results

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

I don't know what you guys are arguing, that guy has a thesis that can not be proven untrue, nor true. I can also say dinosaurs all died from the flue (if my memories are correct somebody put such a hypothesis), impossible to prove I say nonsense, but impossible to prove I don't spout nonsense either.

Just grab a few guys who still have a paleolithic lifestyle. There are still a few around. And then, ask them some questions and see how well the answers check out.

And first of all, what is >intellect<? Rational thinking? Learning? Art? Discoveries? Imagination? Meeh, there's so much way of defining it.

That's more of a problem, yes.

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

It is really rare to find any community that does not have access to modern medicine, tools and cloths to some extent and therefore no longer have to use their brains to survive like people thousands of years ago. Hell, my grandmother still had extensive knowledge of herbal remedies (gathered thru word of mouth), modern doctors no longer have to check a book, they only need to do a search on their computers.

All it means is that we use our brains for different tasks today than we did 100 or 100000 years ago. We've adapted to different environment. It doesn't mean the overall performance's deteriorated.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

I remember reading there were more casualties due to the civil war than any other war the USA has fought, is overpopulation really such a big problem in the USA?

It doesn't hurt that we were both sides of that war.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

All it means is that we use our brains for different tasks today than we did 100 or 100000 years ago. We've adapted to different environment. It doesn't mean the overall performance's deteriorated.

Correct. The basic hardware hasn't changed at all (highly malleable, rewireable platform of organic computing). It all depends on how you train it (and since it is quite re-wireable, you can even fix most miswiring -- calcified ideologies, obsolete assertions, etc)

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Correct. The basic hardware hasn't changed at all (highly malleable, rewireable platform of organic computing). It all depends on how you train it (and since it is quite re-wireable, you can even fix most miswiring -- calcified ideologies, obsolete assertions, etc)

I wish I could +rep you for the "calcified ideologies" part (made me think about some brain lime remover... or lime brain remover). Seriously gave me a good laugh.

[Ithekro]

However, in this day an age, it becomes more and more difficult to weed out correpted data from the streams of information. As seen via the voting numbers.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by kyp275

It's interesting though, how you believe that mankind will obtain full mastery over the foundation of life itself in the near future based on optimism, yet at the same time readily dismisses the possibility of interstellar travel for eternity despite both fields of science are really still in their infancy.

I have already said that faster than light speed can be achieved, but IT IS a planet size road block which IMO will take about 50 years to surpass (and I am being very optimistic).

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

All it means is that we use our brains for different tasks today than we did 100 or 100000 years ago. We've adapted to different environment. It doesn't mean the overall performance's deteriorated.

I still think everyday average tasks modern man does are easier than those required precivilization. Feeding oneself is for many a matter of going to a restaurant or adding water, punching some buttons and waiting a few minutes, something similar in cases of injury/disease. Riding a horse is more difficult than riding a car (allowing yourself to be taken somewhere by a horse is not the same thing). Getting customers is easier than hunting mastodons (you can retry as many times as required).

Originally Posted by Vexx

Correct. The basic hardware hasn't changed at all (highly malleable, rewireable platform of organic computing). It all depends on how you train it (and since it is quite re-wireable, you can even fix most miswiring -- calcified ideologies, obsolete assertions, etc)

I hope that were true but sadly I think that the reason the number of people that voted republican in the presidential election will decrease (if you remove the swing voters) mostly due to death or lack of motivation. I would be very happy if USA citizens started to ask their elected politicians to do what is needed and not what their lobby interests want them to do but for that your statement would need to be true in the majority of the cases.

[Ithekro]

Well they already have a theory for a possible Faster than Light drive. But 50 years sounds about right (even though I'd rather it be sooner).

Assuming we don't do something stupid to the nations of the world by then...it will likely be rather political once a nation has the ability to go from Earth to Mars in a matter of minutes.

Fortunately that's not an election year.

[kyp275]

O_O

wow, you guys are some of the most optimistic people I've ever seen, as far as short-term scientific progress goes ^^;;

[Ithekro]

Arthur C. Clarke was probably more optimistic with 2001: A Space Odyssey. The novel was about a large manned space probe to Saturn. The movie changed it to Jupiter because we had real images of Jupiter from the Pioneer probes by then, but not yet Saturn.

And I'm still upset we don't have that sort of space commerse happening today. We are just starting on it now with the likes of Virgin Galactic (tourism), SpaceX (cargo hauling), and others that are getting into hotels in orbit and mining of asteroids.

That and that we don't yet have actual "spaceships". Just spacecraft with the Space Shuttle being the closest thing to a spaceship we had in service. The computer revolution probably has the computing power of the HAL9000 beat already, just without the personality (or quirks) to go with it.


Of course if 2010 was correct, the President quoting Lincoln and with his finger "on the button" would have been Obama. A nice thing to not have to have a stand off with the Soviet Union (or even just Russia) in this day and age. Maybe again someday, but not yet.

[ganbaru]

Romney Blames Loss on Obama’s ‘Gifts’ to Minorities and Young Voters
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-young-voters/
It's always easier to blame someone else than to look at oneself.

[Vexx]

When I went into engineering in the 70s, I fully expected to visit Mars or possibly an asteroid before I died. That was the speed and focus we had. And it was easily affordable, yes, affordable. We just "chose" to spew incomprehensible chunks of cash into black holes, war, and the pockets of a few billionaires who would rather eliminate jobs, wealth, and options for most of the world's population.

Kyp is right in that the engineering challenges are *hard* problems - but its more a matter of focus when it comes to the projected timelines than the hardness.

[FDW]

Originally Posted by kyp275

O_O

wow, you guys are some of the most optimistic people I've ever seen, as far as short-term scientific progress goes ^^;;

The other forum I go to (the one I reference in my title) is just as optimistic as these posts have been, and we have an entire section of the board over there to argue this stuff.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by willx

Except there's significant disagreement on what that "new" is!

Indeed!

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

How about something old instead?

Like, "don't tell blatant lies"?


Or at least, politically punish people who simply make things up? This used to happen you know, when politicians try to hide their dishonesty because they were afraid of being caught.

Now of course, to tell lies is just another tool. The assumption is that people who won't vote for you are the only people who would notice you are lying, so why not lie to the people who would fall for it?

If only we could find a way to do that.
Perhaps one of these should be mandatory around the neck of every Federal politician, from President to Congress. Only designed to go off when it detects they're lying.

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Romney Blames Loss on Obama’s ‘Gifts’ to Minorities and Young Voters
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-young-voters/
It's always easier to blame someone else than to look at oneself.

Proving that Romney is the idiot I think he is.
I really hope he moves to some virgin island somewhere...maybe he can take Glenn Beck with him.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I really hope he moves to some virgin island somewhere...maybe he can take Glenn Beck with him.

Probably more likely to go to the Canaries Islands

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

If only we could find a way to do that.
Perhaps one of these should be mandatory around the neck of every Federal politician, from President to Congress. Only designed to go off when it detects they're lying.

Then it will only stop when they are sleep, probably

In ancient greece politicians were held accountable at the end of their tenure for what they promised in campaign. I am surprised no one has started a report card website for politicians where average joe can see what every politician have promised in their campaign and what percentage have they fulfilled at the end of it. That is what should define a successful politician, one that keeps his/her promises (we don't care if he/she has to sell his soul and/or body to do it), not how much money can he/she raise for the campaign or how many followers his/her facebook account has.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Romney Blames Loss on Obama’s ‘Gifts’ to Minorities and Young Voters
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-young-voters/
It's always easier to blame someone else than to look at oneself.

It's funny, because he says it as if he wasn't offering "gifts" to the rich. Clearly it just means he chose the wrong people to offer "gifts" to. That was his decision, and he cannot be mad at his opponent being a better strategist than he is.

[Vexx]

Browsing the sites some of my relatives frequent -- it seems they're thinking that Obama won because "everyone who gets a government check" voted for him.

They don't sound quite clear on all that social security, medicare, corporate subsidy, stuff ... in other words, still incoherent.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Browsing the sites some of my relatives frequent -- it seems they're thinking that Obama won because "everyone who gets a government check" voted for him.

They don't sound quite clear on all that social security, medicare, corporate subsidy, stuff ... in other words, still incoherent.

In short the GOP claim the population got bribed. Which is rich; the GOP lost their fiscal credentials long ago.

Even Romney admits that GOP offers only tax cut to the rich. And that this is why they believe they couldn't "attract the 47%". Romney knows the GOP's policy is direct bribery of the 53% by cutting taxes, so they have no leg to stand on in claiming they don't throw gifts around.

[Solace]

The thing is, everyone gets "welfare" from the government. It's not just a poor people thing. To blame the government for bribing the population is silly, especially when things have been quite nice if you're rich...historically speaking.

But both the winners and losers will rationalize what happened, and so it will go until the next election. I'm not too worried about all of the blaming going around, but I am pretty sure that certain prominent figures in the GOP are about to be suddenly marginalized. Or as I like to say, given the Bush treatment.

And of course, the big donors are furious. They emptied their pockets...for what exactly? I really doubt they'll be so eager to open them up again in 2014 or even 2016.

[Vexx]

I'm still kind of amused we haven't seen Karl Rove "disappeared" for a long ride to deep water. He cost some powerful people a lot of money they could have used to pay some overdue taxes.