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Old 2011-07-30, 23:39   Link #33401
deathcurse
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I think it depends on what kind of tragedy it is. Randomly killing people off for no reason but the tragedy is pretty cheap in invoking emotions in my opinion, yes. When I write tragedy, I try to think of the worst possible scenario, and most of those actually don't involve killing people, hehe .

Half the time, it's the unstated implications that the reader realizes in Fridge Moments that are the true tragedy .
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Old 2011-07-30, 23:59   Link #33402
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Still, sometimes you just want to scream "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SOMEBODY THROW A PIE!"
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:02   Link #33403
Craxuan
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Oh, that depends. Having people dying left and right just because they can presents a pretty strong case of tragedy by itself.
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:05   Link #33404
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Depending on how its used, yeah. Tomino made good use of it.

Not everyone can, though.
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:24   Link #33405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Depending on how its used, yeah. Tomino made good use of it.
Eh, if by made good use you mean "kill off most characters so there won't be a sequel" then yeah.
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:29   Link #33406
mega1987
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Red

Yagami

Mid

Four Start

Four 2

Spoiler for Blood That Flows - Peak - Four PT3:
Put Dieci on the berserk button about harming her friends, old and/or new... She gone ballistic as Cinque in this one.


And Jail's gonna have a hard time finding the Heart... and taking it is another different matter if he does figured it out where is it...

Coz' he'll be at the receiving end of many rank A-S+ bombardment spells...
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And I can't still make fanfic without restarting from the start when new ideas comes in...
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:44   Link #33407
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I think most of the time we see tragedy being used as a motivator to the characters, rather than an end to them.

Angel Beats used the tragedies of the chars as a the reason they ended up in the purgatory, Tokyo Magnitude 8 used it as a means to show growth, etc.

Tragedy for the sake of tragedy is something I don't really look forward to see/read, but if it's used to character development, I think it's a great tool, even if sometimes it feels cheap, like killing off a char just for the sake of it by the end of the episode, like they did at the beggining of Bokurano. Of course, by the middle of it got better but the begging was... urg.

Few people realize that a tragedy doesn't equal death or phisical/emotional injury, but sometimes a simple loss can be a tragedy. Of course, it's weighted down by the fact that 'no one dies', but is still a tragedy nonetheless. Losing a house and forced to live on the streets, falling into drug abuse, losing contact with loved ones, etc. can all be tragedies on their own right but most of the time it's not used.

Sorry if my idea didn't pass up right, I'm on my 6th shot of the second bottle.
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:53   Link #33408
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Like I say, we're beings of conflict. If we don't lose something, we don't gain something, vice versa. Tragedy simply happens to be the easier way to portray that simple fact.
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:58   Link #33409
sniperk
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Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
Like I say, we're beings of conflict. If we don't lose something, we don't gain something, vice versa. Tragedy simply happens to be the easier way to portray that simple fact.
The most basic rule of the world. ^^

Has anyone ever read "The Alchemist" by Paulo Coelho? This whole conversation reminded me of it.
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Old 2011-07-31, 01:06   Link #33410
Kuroi Hadou
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Has anyone ever read "The Alchemist" by Paulo Coelho? This whole conversation reminded me of it.
I have. Read it in about an hour.
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Old 2011-07-31, 01:10   Link #33411
sniperk
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I have. Read it in about an hour.
The concept of 'signs' sent to anyone who to attain his 'happiness' is something that deeply interests me. Even if the work itself is wroten as fiction, the idea and concept are real for Alchemists. That was one of the ideas that generated a few bunnies in my head some time ago, but I have yet to write anything using it.

(sorry for using the terms 'signs' and 'happiness', it's just that I don't know how they were called in the english translation of the book)
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Old 2011-07-31, 01:14   Link #33412
Kuroi Hadou
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That was one of the ideas that generated a few bunnies in my head some time ago, but I have yet to write anything using it.
What were the ideas? You could do some pretty interesting things with the alchemist-related content in that book, especially in the Nanoverse.
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Old 2011-07-31, 01:20   Link #33413
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Yeah, but most of those would turn the Nanohaverse into something more akin to FMA, so it's hard to do it without making it seem like it's a ripoff. -.-

Well, one of the ideas was to use the signs that guide your life to happiness, using a slight different approach. It would be more befitting an AU or a crossover than a normal nanoha story, tough.
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Old 2011-07-31, 01:48   Link #33414
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Tragedy is something to overcome, not a point to end on. It feels like everything the character went through was a waste if they die or it amounts to nothing.

Of course if there's a message in it, that's fine. Shakespeare's tragedies work because they drive a point home. MacBeth was drunk on the idea of power, did horrible things, and got what he deserved in the end. Hamlet was obsessed with revenge and his quest for it got him and others killed.
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Old 2011-07-31, 02:04   Link #33415
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Tragedy is something to overcome, not a point to end on. It feels like everything the character went through was a waste if they die or it amounts to nothing.
I think that the mindset that you're operating under is what DezoPenguin once named "literary conceit". Typically people want their stories to have a good ending and for "all's well that ends well" to come to pass since we have enough problems in our lives to want to have some of the same in our books. But the point is that sometimes no matter what you do, your actions are pointless and your efforts are meaningless. It's not everybody's cup of tea, so if you can't drink it then leave well enough alone.

Sometimes tragedy can't be overcome and that's all there is to it.
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Old 2011-07-31, 03:15   Link #33416
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Doesn't necessarily have to be good, it should just have a point. If the intent is to give the message that sometimes things don't work out, okay then. I myself recently did a story where Yuuno tried to help some one out, but he got fatally wounded by a knife to the throat and the victim died anyways.

But sometimes it seems authors just go "I claim to like this character but I'm going to make their lives as miserable as possible and then kill them for shits and giggles!"
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Old 2011-07-31, 03:18   Link #33417
sniperk
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Why do I have a strong sense of Deja-Vu right now?
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Old 2011-07-31, 03:22   Link #33418
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Everything that has ever existed has been repeated many times, so it's likely every conversation has happened before at some point.
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Old 2011-07-31, 03:25   Link #33419
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
But sometimes it seems authors just go "I claim to like this character but I'm going to make their lives as miserable as possible and then kill them for shits and giggles!"
I have the fear that i will become like this if i get the confidence to write something about "you know who".
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Old 2011-07-31, 03:26   Link #33420
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In your case it's possible you'd do it to punish her for disappointing you.
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