2010-11-29, 13:57 | Link #19201 |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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That's pretty interesting. I had not considered a contest between Featherine and Lambdadelta before either. It certainly seems a reasonable possibility. Thematically it feels good--we have the face-off between Hanyuu and Takano near the end at the shrine, and Higurashi is largely a battle between the two on one level--Takano implementing Lamdadelta's certain fate, Hanyuu resetting the timeline to keep trying for a chance for Rika to come through with her miracle.
The maltheist versus the not-all-powerful deity, and the miko that scores the goal.
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2010-11-29, 14:10 | Link #19202 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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As for its relevance, it's as Cao Ni Ma basically put it. I just just left it there if anyone may see any use for it with the Manon theory.
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2010-11-29, 14:25 | Link #19203 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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I have to agree with Klash here.
We are both fluent in french and never heard of Manon being a nickname. I mean it's a proper name in itself. It might be true that it (somehow) began as a nickname for Marie but I seriously would doubt Ryukishi to use knowledge that is beyond obscure for even the speakers of the said language. The french of the fighting game seems to be like the result of a Babel Fish translation... It's only evidence that Ryukishi's team has no one knowledgeable in french in it (and that they have no interest in being accurate about it either... in other words French being used is just fashion for the game). On a side, I can hardly believe the convo about Higurashi/Umineko relations is still up... I seriously doubt it will lead anywhere. |
2010-11-29, 14:30 | Link #19204 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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It literally takes a google search to answer just about any name related questions and nearly all of them state the same thing 'Diminutive of Marie' the same site showed me similar responses like Canon/Kanon which is also french for "Official of the Church" and Shannon hebrew for "God is gracious"
This could very well be just a giant coincidence and fate rolling perfect 20s constantly. |
2010-11-29, 14:39 | Link #19205 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Well yeah a small google search in english does provide that, however an etymologic research of the name says that "Manon" is the diminutive of "Marie-Anne" as is "Marion".
That it's hebrew roots "Myriam" and "Hannah" means respectively "The Seer" and "The Grace". "A quick google search" is something with a validity you might want to reconsider. |
2010-11-29, 15:34 | Link #19209 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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I personally like the idea that Bernkastel is the proven connection between Higurashi and Umineko. Reread her backstory, as told by Lambda, in EP 6 and it makes a whole lot of sense.
Spoiler for Higurashi Rei spoilers:
As a side note I find Bernkastel's past and possible motivations for why she goes out of her way to be incredibly cruel to be far more interesting than Yasu and her "lets blow up an island with 900 tons of dynamite because some boy forgot a promise about a pony". |
2010-11-29, 16:09 | Link #19210 | |||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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By that logic you could even claim that Neon Genesis Evangelion and Haruhi Suzumiya are set in the same "universe" just because they are both set on planet earth. Quote:
A counterpart doesn't mean at all that the "universe" is the same. There is a Cid counterpart in every single final fantasy, and yet they are not all set in the same universe. Quote:
Umineko's Bern was a Game Master's piece Nowhere in Higurashi was said that Bern was a Game Master's piece. Actually as far as I know there are no Game Masters in Higurashi. Umineko's Bern was trapped inside a logic error, a world devoid of any sense. Higurashi's Bern was trapped in endless cycle, forced to repeat the same timespan over and over again. This was neither a logic error nor a nonsensical world. Umineko's Bern hates and fears Featherinne Higurashi's Bern doesn't hate nor fears Hanyuu Umineko's Bern is strongly hinted to have been a cat in her original form. Higurashi's Bern was born from Rika which is by no mean a cat. Higurashi's Bern completely lacks all the feline features of her Umineko counterpart. Sure there are many things that they have in common, but the few existing differences make it clear that they are absolutely not the same being. Umineko's Bern and Higurashi's Bern are as similar as Hanyuu and Featherinne.
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2010-11-29, 16:27 | Link #19211 | ||||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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You exactly know what I meant there: that both universes are connected by certain characters, that's all it is. Quote:
The connection between Higurashi and Umineko isn't akin to a prequel/sequel either, but the setup regarding the common points are by no means a simple "fanservice" considering how it fits. Quote:
"Lastly Bern's background story doesn't match at all. Unless you think that Higurashi sucked that much that you could compare it with some rubbish created by a bunch of monkeys pressing typewriters' buttons randomly." Cheapens might have been the incorrect term, but you definitely implied it would have been totally bad/random for it to be connected with Bern's background. Quote:
For all intent and purpose, no one has a clear idea what is that "sea of fragments" back in Higurashi. Quote:
From there, I have my own interpretation which may be flawed: I see the logic error the situation where Rika, or rather Frederica is trying to fight against fate, while she is supposed to be dead. To me, Furude Rika is "officially dead" but something that just goes against the setting simply made things loop over and over, error that was created by Hanyuu, in her desire to save Rika (and deep down, saving her only companion in her solitary existence as a goddess). However, it is an endless dead end similar to what Battler had to go through: she is supposed to die, period. From there, as long the events are the same, there is no way to defeat that logic, thus "Furude Rika dies on June 1983, if else July 1983 at the latest"? I cannot consider it as a logic error to its truest sense, but Rika's situation was definitely similar to Battler's. Quote:
Furthermore, we have no idea what is the time gap between Higurashi and Umineko. For all we know, it could pretty well be a thousand years with Hanyuu or Featherin turning twisted. The fact Umineko is set on 1986 doesn't mean we are indeed 3 years after Higurashi (it doesn't work this way, since both universes aren't on the same plane/axis... otherwise, the whole idea with the kakera doesn't make sense whatsoever either). Quote:
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I consider Bernkastel as the nameless observer residing in the kakera world as Frederica is jumping back and forth. Minagoroshi-hen introduction is a very clear indication that there is yet another "frederica" that stays on the sidelines and look how "Rika" is struggling. She also toys the kakera to see what other result there are. My interpretation of Rika, Frederica and Bernkastel was made here. I personally think there is originally Furude Rika, the "prime being" that was killed in reality before the whole memory transfer between the kakeras started by Hanyuu. Then we have that "Frederica" trying to get the happiness that "Furude Rika is longing for", and finally, there is Bernkastel, the one observing everything, turning herself into a witch.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2010-11-29 at 16:38. |
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2010-11-29, 16:29 | Link #19212 | |||
Thought Being
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
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2010-11-29, 16:54 | Link #19213 |
The True Culprit
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I always thought it was obvious that Higurashi was a Lambda VS Featherine thing, considering it's Bern's origin story.
Two points that kind've got swept waaay back in conversation. 1) Who would Yasu/Shannon cover for, if she is Beatrice? EVERYONE. Her characterization makes it pretty clear, imo, that she will take the fall for the culprit no matter who it is. Except maybe Gohda. 2) What if the culprit is a Witch? Cao, would you like to elaborate on what you meant, here? It seems you were going for a metaphorical meaning, like a human with a witch mentality?
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2010-11-29, 17:11 | Link #19215 | ||
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Also with Featherine being a Witch of Theater-going, this makes her more observer than participant, which explains Hanyuu's relative lack of action. It was necessary to create a Witch of Miracles in order to escape the closed Maze of Certainty laid by Lamdadelta. I was the most unhappy. Because I knew this maze had no exit. He was the next most unhappy. Because he didn't know that this maze had no exit. The other masses weren't unhappy. Because they didn't even know they were in a maze. --Frederica Bernkastel Quote:
This sounds a lot like Rule Z from Higurashi, where the Sonozakis will always get blamed for/take responsibility for what happens.
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Last edited by Ayu-ayu; 2010-11-29 at 17:41. Reason: corrected Rule (thanks Keriaku!) |
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2010-11-29, 17:53 | Link #19218 | ||||||||||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Game Masters, Logic errors, pieces, furniture, fake scenes, mystery rules, supernatural absolutely forbidden in the human world. Quote:
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2010-11-29, 18:37 | Link #19219 | |||
The True Culprit
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You were saying? Quote:
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2010-11-29, 18:55 | Link #19220 | |
Miss Kimi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 28
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