Summer 2009: Your Expectations and Anticipated Series (was: Summer Anime 2009)

[Grif]

I think i have chosen a good time to get into zetsubou sensei, I cant wait for the new series.

Summer has not got a lot, but it still has a good 4 or 5 anime that really holds my interested. So that will do.

Want
Umineko
Zetsubou Sensei
Canaan
Tokyo Magnitude 8.0

Not sure if want
Bakemonogatari
Seitokai no Ichizon

[Tamad]

Whew... I finally managed to write up a proper summary for what I'm lookking forward to this season. Shameless plug to my blog over here if anyone is interested.

[izmosmolnar]

Oh yeah. Forgot to mention, the other thing depressing me, that only two three of the upcoming shows are VN adaptations (Umineko, Canaan, edit: + Princess Lover). And guess what shows are the most popular? These two Two of these three. Spring season had 5 game adaptation I know of (there might be even more I just skimmed through), fall 2008 had like several too, but it's significantly less this time around.

I mean Japan churns out like 40-50 VNs every month, and probably most of those are far too generic (like Tayutama for example, and guess what? They adapted it!), but the fact which makes me sad is that no studio really risks to adapt the ones with excellent story (Swan Song, G-senjou no Maou, Cross†Channel, Sharin no Kuni, Kara no shoujo, Killer Queen and I could really keep going all day).

My problem isn't that they are not animating enough adaptation. The point I'm trying to make is that mostly the adaptations they are doing are the cookie-cutter ones, with similiarish generic plot/environment with the general character archetypes (Princess Lover, Tayutama, Tears to Tiara, Akane-iro, Da Capo, EF, True Tears etc., no offense to anyone here) while no one even considers adapting the ones with the gripping exciting story (all of the above +hundreds more).

I also realize that making an anime-original title is very risky, albeit can be successful (Eden of the East), and it's generally much safer to adapt another moe game/manga/light novel/whatever, but then why don't they animate the Bestseller VNs?
Most of the above are in the top3 and top10 top selling of recent years, and I imagine quite a lot of the VN players would follow their adaptation too (like how many of us Umineko players are anticipating the adaptation nowadays), plus there is also a huge reason why those titles are bestsellers in the first place anyway (no, not because of the ero-content...).

On a different note, as a selfish "Western" VN player (kinda ironic, posting it from Eastern Europe), I'm aware that most of the exciting Visual Novels are never going to get translated to english (it's kinda a niche-market after all), but if the Anime-studios would animate those titles, most of us could also more or less enjoy the story of the great, plot-centered titles.

I hope I'm not derailing the thread, but I wanted to rant somewhere about that stuff.

[0utf0xZer0]

(I'm going to try and refrain from writing a defense of Tayutama, EF, True Tears and to some extent Tears to Tiara here since I like all four and felt the "cookie cutter" comment was a bit too harsh. Although True Tears is a VN adaptation in name only. Literally.)

You know, I'd never actually noticed that before you pointed it out, probably because my knowledge of VNs is limited to "stuff that's gotten an anime and stuff I've seen cute promo art for". But it's true, and not even just for the kind of examples you site. Much as I love Tayutama's cute mythological stuff, why did we get it rather than an adaptation of a game that enschews the school life stuff entirely in favour of the mythological aspects? (I'm going to answer my own question here though: the game I was thinking of that specifically fits that bill is more than five years old.)

I can only think of two explanations. The first is bandwagonning, although you'd think that some companies would realize that they're not going to be the next Clannad by now. The second is difficulty of adaptation. Aside from the possibility of needing a higher animation budget (school life shows aren't frame rate heavy), I've played at least one VN - Ever 17 - that would be an absolute bitch to try and adapt into an anime. Or for a really good example: compare the plot coherence of "Yami to Boushi to Hanno no Tabibito" to a typical school life erogame adaptation of the same length (13 episodes). There's a noticeable difference.

Also, the mention of Eden of the East in your post made me think that the premise for that anime would make an awesome VN.

(If this is going to continue more than a post or two more, we should probably consider moving this discussion to a more appropriate venue.)

[izmosmolnar]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Spoiler for space:

(I'm going to try and refrain from writing a defense of Tayutama, EF, True Tears and to some extent Tears to Tiara here since I like all four and felt the "cookie cutter" comment was a bit too harsh. Although True Tears is a VN adaptation in name only. Literally.)

You know, I'd never actually noticed that before you pointed it out, probably because my knowledge of VNs is limited to "stuff that's gotten an anime and stuff I've seen cute promo art for". But it's true, and not even just for the kind of examples you site. Much as I love Tayutama's cute mythological stuff, why did we get it rather than an adaptation of a game that enschews the school life stuff entirely in favour of the mythological aspects? (I'm going to answer my own question here though: the game I was thinking of that specifically fits that bill is more than five years old.)

I can only think of two explanations. The first is bandwagonning, although you'd think that some companies would realize that they're not going to be the next Clannad by now. The second is difficulty of adaptation. Aside from the possibility of needing a higher animation budget (school life shows aren't frame rate heavy), I've played at least one VN - Ever 17 - that would be an absolute bitch to try and adapt into an anime. Or for a really good example: compare the plot coherence of "Yami to Boushi to Hanno no Tabibito" to a typical school life erogame adaptation of the same length (13 episodes). There's a noticeable difference.

Also, the mention of Eden of the East in your post made me think that the premise for that anime would make an awesome VN.

(If this is going to continue more than a post or two more, we should probably consider moving this discussion to a more appropriate venue.)

Spoiler for saving space:

>Eden of the East in your post made me think that the premise for that anime would make an awesome VN
Do want.

I think it's kinda pointless to open a new thread for that, as it would die very soon I reckon.
Anyway, it wasn't my intention to offend you for considering Tayutama for example as cookie-cutter, but I think it is overly genetic (I haven't seen or read True Tears, I only saw that "adapted from game" and "plays in school". Wow, how original! :/ )
Average Joe goes to school => difficulty appears => more female appears => *rinse and repeat that cycle several times with various difficulties and females* => final difficulty solved => Joe chooses one of the female => The End.
I mean it more like the basic premise is more or less the same in most of them, or that the appeal they are trying to do is making the character archetypes as appealing as possible, while keep the (IMHO not as excellent) story in the background (Tears to Tiara for example. Note: I played the game too. Octavia: Silent Lawful type, Rhiannon => Genki girl etc.)
I deliberately didn't mention Ever 17 (despite being one of my favorite too), because it's far too difficult to animate, and I'm not sure about it's reception in Japan.
However my point still stands there are hundreds of top-seller VNs out there with a wicked great story waiting to animate, and they 95% (top of my head number) animate the mediocre / or bad ones. And I'm completely puzzled why.
I mean take a look on G-Senjou for example. It is cited as the Death Note VN (and everyone knows how popular that is really) since it's intrique and plot-twists are at least as exciting, the brick-shitting raito is considerably high -pun intended- , it's not difficult to animate (the protagonist is a school-student like Raito too), and it was the top2 in 2008 I think. (Theres a teaser patch out there for your info)

If you were an Animating Studio designer and your boss says you to animate a VN, why are you choosing titles like Akane-iro then? They sold worse than any of the ones I mentioned, why do you think the animation for that would go so well? I'm sure some of the Japanese audience also thinks it's boring to watch the same kinda thing all the time. Also note that considerable amount of the VN players who still watch anime too and whose blogs I follow, don't even want to watch the adaptations like Princess Lover for example due to not being interesting enough after playing the game.

And it's not even the licensing fees I think, as they don't have to choose 2008's bestsellers (ironically Princess Lover is not even a year old. source). The top charts are mostly led by plot-centered ones back in like 2003 too, many with continuation still nowadays, why not adapt one of those? Surely the license isn't expensive for those.

Edit: I'm not trying to bash any of the shows I mentioned, I'm just somewhat puzzled how and why they decide which games they decide to adapt, and why are they neglecting the story-centered ones, despite that the latter would even bring more revenue.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

(I haven't seen or read True Tears, I only saw that "adapted from game" and "plays in school". Wow, how original! :/ )

Really who gives a fuck about originality? Chu-Bra has one of the most original premises to come out this decade and it's already being slammed left right and center. Really what other anime has the premise of a girl setting up a high school club for underwear? Go ahead and call it ecchi/borderline hentai crap aimed at virgins but saying it's unoriginal is not true.

Originality is one of the most overrated things in entertainment and what people find original is only because they haven't seen something do it before. Take the debates RahXephon and Evangelion caused which than brought up Space Runaway Ideon. And the whole instrumentality thing was in a book that predates Ideon in the first place and I'm sure that was in something else and well you get the idea don't you?

What Kannagi's Yamakan says in an interview translated by Karou Choujo.. Among other things, he says he does not believe in originality, that what we see as original is actually just "deft plagiarism." is pretty much true. When it comes to anything in entertainment I like to go by "No idea is original there is nothing new under the sun, it's never what you do but how it is done." Sure originality is nice but execution is everything.

[izmosmolnar]

Ok then let me rephrase it: "wow, how exciting it sounds", or "how appealing it seems for me personally".
I do think Eden of the East had one of the most original premises recently, and look how popular it is. I'm sure they gonna make a fortune milking the DVD and movie sales, so your argument that doing original things isn't worth it, hardly holds water IMO. (No offense really)
I've never said Chu-bra!! is unoriginal, but I could hardly call it story-centric. And my issue was about the lack of story-centric things they adapt (primarily about VN as I don't read any Manga).
For staying on-topic: Take a look at the V2 picture in the opening post. How many of the adaptations makes you personally excited? I for one only got mildly interested upon reading the synopsis for Canaan and Umineko, while the others are kinda meh.

[Westlo]

True Tears is actually considered one of the better shows in it's genre and has won praise from people who typically hate that type of show but sure it doesn't sound appealing if you look at synopsis. Don't take my word for it... here's another opinion...

I do think Eden of the East had one of the most original premises recently, and look how popular it is. I'm sure they gonna make a fortune milking the DVD and movie sales

Noitamina shows tend not to do so well on DVD... and that's including stuff like Honey and Clover and Nodame Cantabile which had higher ratings than Eden as well as a big manga and j-drama fanbases. So lets not count this egg until it hatches, Eden is a calculated experiment to see if they can turn high Noitamina ratings into dvd sales in the first place.

so your argument that doing original things isn't worth it, hardly holds water IMO.

Point
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You.

[izmosmolnar]

I honestly don't want to debate the issue with originality and anime, as I could never consider myself an expert in such area (like my lack of knowledge regarding TT proves it too), so people like you could bash me for those things (albeit I do think you've been kinda impolite, despite that I'm really trying my best to be polite here, which might don't go across with my limited self-taught english). My problem was never with originality, more like with the VN adaptations receiving adaptations in general.
As I don't know almost anything about Nodame besides it's wikipage, I can't comment on how successful it could be. However I personally think (at least my own unrelated Gut-feeling tells me) they are going to sell shitloads of both the Eden DVD and both the Movies.

Anyway that was my last post here though, as I don't really see the reason to argue over such things.
I think my point that the VN adaptations they are doing are mostly from the generic mediocre ones (and in the 2009 summer season they don't even adapt much VNs altogether => 3 only), went across, while at the same time far too many of the bestseller ones with exceptional story are remaining both untranslated game-wise, and both unanimated. And that's what makes me a bit surprised and a bit sad.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Noitamina shows tend not to do so well on DVD... and that's including stuff like Honey and Clover and Nodame Cantabile which had higher ratings than Eden as well as a big manga and j-drama fanbases.

I don't think the figures really bear this out. The link you posted elsewhere about this concerned the "discrepancy" betwen viewer ratings and DVD sales. But when compared to DVD sales for other shows, Noitamina programming does as well if not better than the average.

Spoiler for statistics lesson:

Ratings figures are so low for all anime productions that attempting to correlate small differences in viewing with differences in DVD sales seems rather fruitless to me. Even with a sample of 2,000 households, which is about the size of the main sample of metered households in Japan, the standard error of estimate on a rating of 3% is 0.4%, meaning only differences of about 0.8% even begin to reach usual notions of statistical significance. Most television producers know nothing about statistics and tend to read meaning into differences that are well within sampling error.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Westlo

What Kannagi's Yamakan says in an interview translated by Karou Choujo.. Among other things, he says he does not believe in originality, that what we see as original is actually just "deft plagiarism." is pretty much true. When it comes to anything in entertainment I like to go by "No idea is original there is nothing new under the sun, it's never what you do but how it is done." Sure originality is nice but execution is everything.

Ooh, I like that description of "originality" by Yamakan Yeah, if you read the works of Joseph Campbell - you find that there are really only a handful of archetypal stories that have existed for eons. All else is just execution or permutation of a theme (which, of course, makes those aspects the more important elements).
Much entertainment expects a strict protocol of events - where deviation is frowned at (e.g. manzai has a fairly strict protocol, though what you place in each step can be widely variant). A fair amount of anime seems to appeal to the "butterflies and puppies comfort zone" of otaku -- they get upset at anything that slips too far out of the rut. (e.g. KKPR is still one of my favorite examples of this - the anime adaptation tried something really different and was severely punished despite the result being far more interesting than the usual serial-linear "choose the girl" plot that most eroge adaptations plod along in).

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Ooh, I like that description of "originality" by Yamakan Yeah, if you read the works of Joseph Campbell - you find that there are really only a handful of archetypal stories that have existed for eons. All else is just execution or permutation of a theme (which, of course, makes those aspects the more important elements).

Now that looks like a cheap, all-purpose argumentation strategy to me, there must already be a name for it. First you define an ideal (originality as not applying to a handful of highly abstract concepts), then you prove that it is unreachable (because they're so abstract that they can be applied to anything) to finally excuse your own shortcomings in that area with it (unoriginality as normal people understand it or even actual plagiarism).

[Celestial Kitsune]

My summer preview

[Rawr:3]

Eh...I liked spice and wolf, so might give that try.
Needless and Tokyo Magnitude looks pretty good.

[Last Sinner]

Want

Aoi-Hana (really liked the preview vid and the opening theme. The crew that did Nodame Cantabile and Honey & Clover are doing this. Really pinning my hopes on this one!)
Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 (Preview and description looked decent. Bones can really deliver when they're on song. Be a winner, please!)
Canaan (I love Type-Moon material. Garden of Sinners really lifted the bar for the franchise so hope this reaches the same heights)

Maybe

Spice and Wolf II (I only watch it for Horo. Most people do anyway)
Aika Zero (No expecting anything great but Studio Fantasia are consistent and know how to draw women well)

[Marion]

Will watch:
Umineko no Naku koro Ni
Sayonara Zetsubou Sensi
CANAAN

Willing to try:
Bakemonogatari
Taishou Yakyuu Musume
Princess Lover!

Might try:
Spice and Wolf II (I heard mixed reviews about it, so maybe)
ELEMENT HUNTERS (Not having high expectations though, it sounds a little cliche)
Cobra: Rokunin no Yushi

Will watch, just to see how ridiculously stupid it will be and get some lulz out of a couple episodes:
Hetalia Axis Powers 2 (seriously, this series makes me feel bad for Mussolini, which is not a good thing. Just my honest opinion.)
Negima! Mouhitotsu no Sekai (Poor Negima! you're going to become the next Tenchi Muyou </3)

[Echoes]

I'm really looking forward to the sequels to Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Spice and Wolf and the spin-off (or whatever it is) Umineko. Other than that, I know little to nothing about any of the series, and I'm ready to be wow'd, or terribly disappointed, whatever the case may be.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Echoes

I'm really looking forward to the sequels to Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Spice and Wolf and the spin-off (or whatever it is) Umineko. Other than that, I know little to nothing about any of the series, and I'm ready to be wow'd, or terribly disappointed, whatever the case may be.

It's not a spin-off XD It's just part of the same series from 07 Expansion but the two games/animes are completely different.

[gigaloki]

UMINEKO, i want to see umineko and see if it is better than higurashi

[gigaloki]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Umineko. Other than that, I know little to nothing about any of the series, and I'm ready to be wow'd, or terribly disappointed, whatever the case may be.

umineko is set in different time line, in different place and different characters. you cant actually say its a spin off.... but rather in the same universe made by 07ths.