Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) - generic discussion thread

[CrowKenobi]

I think it would be best to move the speculation about where the anime is going to end to the manga thread for obvious reasons.

[Guido]

Since I'll be reading the manga after the anime ends, then I'm out from the speculation realm.

However, I do not wish Wit studio pulling on the audience an ending that bombs following from a possible anime original route.

I mean Madhouse did it once with Claymore, and look how the mainstream majority became outraged with the outcome.

[articuzwolf]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

long

nah never asked you to understand my preference nor I'm trying to understand yours

you said it is better to go with original anime ending, closing all the possibility of second season and god knows when or will we get a reboot in the future

I said, nay I prefer the cliffhanger ending with possibility of 2nd season continuation


simple as that

[TinyRedLeaf]

Can I request that all discussions that are even remotely related to the manga be moved to the relevant thread? Even subtle little hints, like that about the wall, isn't really very appreciated for anime-only viewers. Please show some consideration.

And speculations about where and when in the manga the anime should end are not very appreciated either, for the simple reason that it inevitably leads to accidental spoilers.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

No, I'd still say the Claymore route is far worse. It basically destroyed any chance at continuing the story short of a full remake, while not resolving basically any plot thread.

If any anime is a lock for a full remake if needed, this is the one.

[theflyingturkey]

If there's one thing which I have to say about the opening is that it definitely lifts the spirits of the audience, which is exactly what the characters need.

[MrTerrorist]

"Attack On Titan" Gets Weekly Chimi-Chara Manga Treatment

[NoemiChan]

Funny.. just seen the second episode. I find the here people dumber and weaker than those in MLA.

[Iron Maw]

Episode 3 Preview screens

Loving that wonderful scenic shot of the lake at night.

[theflyingturkey]

Wow, scenery porn.
I haven't watched the anime yet, though I've read the manga.

I'm just preparing stomach for the inevitable terror and grief I'm gonna get watching this.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Funny.. just seen the second episode. I find the here people dumber and weaker than those in MLA.

I have no idea what you just wrote but ok...

[jeroz]

remember, those guys here don't have readily produced mechs.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

I have no idea what you just wrote but ok...

Sorry.... Bad english.....

remember, those guys here don't have readily produced mechs.

For 100 years, what they only have are "Gillette" and "small cannon"....

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

For 100 years, what they only have are "Gillette" and "small cannon"....

Man, don't underestimate the power of razors, those fuckers hurt like hell.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Man, don't underestimate the power of razors, those fuckers hurt like hell.

Don't remind me....

But differs for this "Goliaths"...

Anyway, the latest info about the walls makes me think this series is no different from zombie themed series... they fight defensively until they fight to be only push back....

I praise the author but... the setup is like very.... common..... nowadays...

[backbone]

Meh, i couldn't careless about that. When anything else is either moe, harem, or romcom, this show sure is a refreshing breath of air

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Funny.. just seen the second episode. I find the here people dumber and weaker than those in MLA.

You know, I have the feeling that as good as the quality of this anime is somehow it doesn't really convey the peculiarity that really hooked me into the manga.

Comments like this make me think that it is probably the case. I'm not even sure if it is absolutely clear even the manga or perhaps it is just my interpretation, but at this point I'd like to write a mini-essay on what I believe it is one of the strongest point of Shingeki no Kyojin and what makes it different from other similar settings found in thousands of other manga and anime.


I'm going to "dissect" here not the story and its characters specifically but the very setting which, as many have already said in this thread, is a sort of different take on the popular "zombie apocalypse" scenario.

Someone even compared it to Muv Luv Alternative (the visual novel) which of course it is absolutely different if you take in consideration the characters and the mecha, but the setting itself isn't that different in its basic concept and Muv Luv Alternative also takes inspiration from the zombie apocalypse scenario by admission of its creators.

Breaking it apart what are the common themes?

The fact that humanity is on the brink of extinction.
The fact that humanity is in a hopeless situation, in a sort of temporary stalemate that is however slowly but surely moving towards total annihilation.
The fact that the world is strongly affected by this menace and the story shows us how the "living conditions" and social dynamics are when compared to our "peaceful" world.

It is easy to see these themes and they are common to many other stories of this kind. But Shingeki no Kyojin is a bit different, there are other themes that are perhaps a little more difficult to see, albeit clearly there.

Whether it is aliens, zombies, demons, vampires of whatever is your stock creature of your apocalypse we know that these creatures destroy cities, civilizations, kill humans.
But in Shingeki no Kyoujin the titans destroy something even more precious. They destroy the human spirit itself, they destroy human dignity, they destroy their very humanity.

Take for example the squad leader of the scouting legion coming back from a disastrous expedition. The way he acts in front of the mother of one of his deceased soldiers is absolutely different from what you would expect.
As a commander he should have really said something to comfort that woman, it was his duty to keep the morale high, even in the face of total defeat.
In a normal story in this typical situation it is usually the official himself who comforts the mother by saying that her son "valiantly died on the line of duty serving his country until the very end". Just how many times we have heard that?
But Shingeki no Kyoujin turns it inside out. It is the mother that say it first, it is the mother that evidently tries to convince herself that her son didn't die in vain, it is the mother that desperately tries to find some kind of comfort in that tragedy. And the squad leader only needs to say yes, he only needs to be as strong as his role require... but he can't. And he can't because he is so much psychologically destroyed that he can't even bring himself to say a white lie.
He isn't really doing a favor to anyone by telling the truth, he's just blurting out his despair.
He didn't just lost a battle, he is failure as a leader, and he is a failure as a human.
We are miles away from the badass characters of MLA whose human spirit never wavers not even in front of their enemies' might. Just think of Admiral Tadokoro for example.

But the author of Shingeki no Kyoujin doesn't stop there. He goes his way to turn inside out another typical situation of this kind of story. We get a mother that is stuck under the rubble of a destroyed house. She can't save herself anymore so, as it is expected, her main concern is for her kids to be saved.
Sometimes the situation is even more extreme, for example you get a mother or father that even willingly sacrifice themselves in order to save their children. And often they die with a smile, with the comforting thought that even if they die their son and daughter will live on.
But that's not what you get in this story. Everyone acts as you would expect a human would act... until they meet face to face with a Titan. And so Eren's mother needs to cover her own mouth, because the fear and terror for the titans is even stronger than the often romanticized maternal instinct. Eren's mother needs to fight with herself, because she wants to scream: "Stop! Don't go, don't leave me here! Save me!"
And so Eren's mother doesn't die with a smile on her face, she dies while dominated by terror, struggling hopelessly against the titan's grasp. Just like a worm hopelessly struggles against the mindless grasp of a bird.


And at the same time, we have Hannes who at first seems to determined to show that his training wasn't for nothing, that he is a soldier and that he will fight and kill the titan that is going to harm Eren's mother. We understand that he feels indebted to Doctor Jaeger and that he wants to take this chance to show his gratitude, to repay Doctor Jaeger for what he has done by saving his wife. Until that point Hannes is acting like a human, he is acting like you would expect a man to act. That is... until he finds himself face to face with a Titan, until he realize how little and helpless he is in front of one of them. And Hannes even said that he used to see Titans all the time. Except he always saw them from afar and from the height of 50ft meters tall walls. Hannes didn't even suspected the kind of terror he would feel by facing one of them while on the ground.
And then we see the complete destruction of this man when he admits his helplessness in front of child of the mother that he just abandoned. An adult is supposed to be a role model to children, an adult is supposed to be strong, even when they suffer inside, for the sake of children. But the titans have completely destroyed his dignity as a human, as a man, as a soldier. And so the only thing that Hannes can do is crying just like a helpless child would.


But all of this isn't supposed to tell us that the characters of this story are just a bunch of pussies. If they were they would be so to begin with. No, this is supposed to tell us just how terrifying the titans are. This is supposed to tell us that even your most valiant hero would turn into a sheep if a Titan knocked at his door. That's just how horrible titans are. They completely change a human's nature.


Perhaps this message isn't really conveyed in the anime, and perhaps even the manga doesn't do that as much as the author intended. It isn't easy to make a reader/watcher understand the terror that the characters face. Visually speaking the titans as they are depicted aren't that terrifying, we have seen worse. But I bet it would be a different story if you saw one towering in front of you.

The opening of the anime is absolutely awesome, and I love it, but perhaps it gives the wrong idea, it doesn't set the right mood. A song like that would be more fit for your usual shounen where humanity is in despair but at the same time fights valiantly against its enemy. In other words something like MLA.

Another thing that I feel is missing is the fact that in the manga characters that have met titans have something strange in their eyes. You can tell that they have seen the horror and that that scarred their souls forever. In the anime not so much, I don't get the same feeling.
I'm also not very satisfied with Mikasa. Her expression isn't quite right.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

This is supposed to tell us that even your most valiant hero would turn into a sheep if a Titan knocked at his door.

This goes with what you said about the OP but I guess it's not the message people get when the OP freeze frames this image



There's the hero attacking a 60m tall titan all by himself.

I could understand people wondering, "well if this guy does it,why not the others?"

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by totoum

This goes with what you said about the OP but I guess it's not the message people get when the OP freeze frames this image



There's the hero attacking a 60m tall titan all by himself.

I could understand people wondering, "well if this guy does it,why not the others?"

Well that's exactly the problem. This kind of scene shouldn't appear if not later in the story. It ruins the mood that should come from the introduction of the series. Perhaps they should have not shown the OP from the very first episode like some other anime did.

BTW Eren is a special case, as we have already seen, he is the only one who, while still being a kid, think about "kill every one of them" even after all that happened.


Again this is supposed to show us that Eren is absolutely awesome or totally crazy, depending on your point of view, and not that everyone else is a pussy.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

snip

Brilliant analysis. I think you hit the nail on the head with what Shingeki no Kyojin is all about.