Fate/stay night Episode 6 Discussion thread

[Jump]

Didn't you just do that?

[Sinestra]

Ok so i finally caught up with everyone with the series and everyone was right i see the potential in it i am already hooked. Rider was really cool with that trick she pulled with the stake still in the arm it look very painful. I just want to see saber fight more and i want to see the Assissan Servant

[stormy001_M1A2]

The show also exhibited how far people willing to go, if there is prize like Holy Grail in contention. It is sad but realistic in a way. (refering to Rider's Master)

[Equus]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

The show also exhibited how far people willing to go, if there is prize like Holy Grail in contention. It is sad but realistic in a way. (refering to Rider's Master)

True, which is what I think is where Rin and Shirou are somewhat special. Given the uber prize before them, they aren't trying to rain death and destruction upon each other. Well...TOO much death and destruction anyway.

I really enjoyed the episode. It helped reveal interesting points, gave you Rider in action, and forwarded the story nicely. The pacing was also such really well done, with a nice amount of action happening balanced with some nice storyline elements afterward.

[Moon Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Equus

True, which is what I think is where Rin and Shirou are somewhat special. Given the uber prize before them, they aren't trying to rain death and destruction upon each other. Well...TOO much death and destruction anyway.

I really enjoyed the episode. It helped reveal interesting points, gave you Rider in action, and forwarded the story nicely. The pacing was also such really well done, with a nice amount of action happening balanced with some nice storyline elements afterward.

Unfortunately it also leave a very large opening to be exploited since neither is willing to go the distance. Shirou specifically is vulnerable since he is the weakest of all the Masters as of yet, the most honorable and the most naive/ idealisitic. I'd like to see what happens if ever one of the masters actually decide to be completely evil and takes hostages and/or use other humans as shields during a fight.

[JanthraX^]

w0w, great ep, gave it an 8,

wonderful tension with seeing rider, takes away her fluffy look i had been given from many pictures =D in the image thread,
her style of attack hiding in the shadows and keeping her victim chained, awesome!
also Archer making shirou question himself, maybe he will start to lose his naive ideals.

[Altima of the Gates]

Just watched the ep and looked over this thread and i'll say this.
The only reason some of you want to bash Shirou is because he does things you so want to do. But because society is the way it is, you percieve that its impossible to hold such an ideal so you call anyone who fights that logic naive and stupid. Its quite sad really how we abandon our ideals to conform.

Sometimes its good to be honest with ourselves.
I guess there will be two factions in this forum.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Just watched the ep and looked over this forum and i'll say this.
The only reason some of you want to bash Shirou is because he does things you so want to do. But because society is the way it is, you percieve that its impossible to hold such an ideal so you call anyone who fights that logic naive and stupid. Its quite sad really how we abandon our ideals to conform.

Sometimes its good to be honest with ourselves.
I guess there will be two factions in this forum.

Amen brotha. All the Shirou bashing really is unwarranted, considering what the guy has been able to do so far. You can't even compare him to Rin from Shuffle. He's so much better as a male lead it's incomprehensible.

[Blackflame]

well i'll adimt he can be a bit of an idoit but yea your right...

[MrProphet]

LOL

Anyone suggesting jealosy of an imaginary hero as a "reason" for constructive criticism probably wants to be an anime hero himself.

Thanks for the suggestion, but some of us are not that infantile. 8)

And seriously, whenever people compare Fate/stay night to a freaking HAREM PORN, I get just so amazed. Let's forget the game for one second, but do you seriously want to compare this show to harem? No, seriously? I thought FSN was better than that.

If not, then yes, we can all compare Shiro to a regular harem male lead and do so favourably. But then I am even more disappointed. I thought this anime will be top of the best, while you guys are suggesting that all I can expect from it is top of the worst.

Yeah, it's better than SHUFFLE! What the hell does THAT prove?

[tragicsmile]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Just watched the ep and looked over this thread and i'll say this.
The only reason some of you want to bash Shirou is because he does things you so want to do. But because society is the way it is, you percieve that its impossible to hold such an ideal so you call anyone who fights that logic naive and stupid. Its quite sad really how we abandon our ideals to conform.

Sometimes its good to be honest with ourselves.
I guess there will be two factions in this forum.

Ad hominem attacks get you nowhere. Because we think Shirou was foolhardy and reckless does not mean we want to do what he does - far from it! And regarding the conformist tag you so readily place upon those with common sense, there are many ways to pursue a dream of heroism through society and without putting yourself through stupid risks.

You can't even compare him to Rin from Shuffle. He's so much better as a male lead it's incomprehensible.

Oh please. You can compare anyone with a spine to a harem lead and have them come out on top.

For the record, I'm still quite fond of Shirou. His dedication to his idealism, while naive and shortsighted (which is expected, given that he _is_ young) is admirable. He just needs to gain the strength and wisdom to follow through.

[Altima of the Gates]

Wow. Seriously you both seem to think just a bit too highly of yourselves.
And what i meant was not that you wanted to go out in front of swords or whatnot, it was that you claimed his stupidity, but find it endearing in some way.
Am I the only one that sees the contradiction here?

[MrProphet]

Shiro is a good guy and a fine shounen hero (he's rather typical, in fact).

What we are talking about here is not whether Shiro is a normal character or something like that, but rather about Shiro's lack of common sense on basic issues and the fact that he often acts unreasonably and in a foolhardy manner.

How is that a contradiction?

Personally, I do not find lack of basic reason endearing or as something I wish to emulate. Anyone claiming to know my feelings better I do myself is just deluding themselves. 8)

[Captain_Dope]

The only reason I watch the anime is mainly because of Rider I loved this episode very much. It was so good to see Rider speak and fight.

[tragicsmile]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Wow. Seriously you both seem to think just a bit too highly of yourselves.
And what i meant was not that you wanted to go out in front of swords or whatnot, it was that you claimed his stupidity, but find it endearing in some way.
Am I the only one that sees the contradiction here?

I don't really see how making an opinion about a character makes me think too highly of myself - making judgements about character is something we should be doing all the time. As for that contradiction you pointed out, I don't find his stupidity endearing, I find his dedication endearing. There's a difference.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Captain_Dope

The only reason I watch the anime is mainly because of Rider I loved this episode very much. It was so good to see Rider speak and talk.

Yes, another fan convert Sabre may be on top now but we Rider fans will take over this forum soon

I can understand why people are piss off at Shirou and his action and naviety. But he is no different then 90% of the male lead n this type of show anyway. If you let him piss you might as well not watch any shounan type shows.

And he does qualify as a Harem Male Lead since he does have a harem. Sakura, Sabre and Rin.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by tragicsmile

I don't really see how making an opinion about a character makes me think too highly of myself - making judgements about character is something we should be doing all the time. As for that contradiction you pointed out, I don't find his stupidity endearing, I find his dedication endearing. There's a difference.

I apologize, i did not find that clear enough so thanks for clarifying your opinion.

@Zellos - I might just have to become a Rider convert myself, though i like the more casual wear pics.

[kujoe]

Okay.... Yes, Shirou is too much of the "good guy" that it hurts. That's actually a common trait with regard to shounen leads. When I compare him with other main leads however, it's usually Shiki. (I mean, Shiki as he was originally portrayed in the game and later, in the manga.) But personally, I don't find Shirou annoying or irritating that much.

But with regard to this episode, all I can say is...

Spoiler:

I liked the conversation between Shirou and Archer, which I believe is the highlight of this episode. When it comes to the notion of justice, Shirou's heroic ideals are confronted by Archer's hard-boiled insights gained through struggles and experience.

Spoiler for just in case it relates to the GAME too much!:

A sign of things to come perhaps?

[Moon Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Just watched the ep and looked over this thread and i'll say this.
The only reason some of you want to bash Shirou is because he does things you so want to do. But because society is the way it is, you percieve that its impossible to hold such an ideal so you call anyone who fights that logic naive and stupid. Its quite sad really how we abandon our ideals to conform.

Sometimes its good to be honest with ourselves.
I guess there will be two factions in this forum.

I don't mind Shirou, I know it comes off that I don't like him but that's not true. He does get points for sticking up for what he believes. I just think he should approach achieving his ideals in a more practical sense. Not abandoning them, but looking foreward to what his ideals mean and how people will use that as weakness and then countering by some form. Right now he's just flying blind, holding onto his ideals. He's already been presented with a weakness in the way of his thinking, but his retort is not how he plans to counter it or how it is not a weakness. He fully accepts that there is a practical flaw in his way of thinking yet he does nothing to fix it. Like I said, it's still early so we'll just have to see how he develops as the story continues, but that's the assessment up till now and I believe it to be a pretty fair one. Ye good on him for sticking to his ideals in the face of adversity, bad that he doesn't really deal with the adverst problems

[Ambience Blue]

Originally Posted by Moon Eclipse

I don't mind Shirou, I know it comes off that I don't like him but that's not true. He does get points for sticking up for what he believes. I just think he should approach achieving his ideals in a more practical sense. Not abandoning them, but looking foreward to what his ideals mean and how people will use that as weakness and then countering by some form. Right now he's just flying blind, holding onto his ideals. He's already been presented with a weakness in the way of his thinking, but his retort is not how he plans to counter it or how it is not a weakness. He fully accepts that there is a practical flaw in his way of thinking yet he does nothing to fix it. Like I said, it's still early so we'll just have to see how he develops as the story continues, but that's the assessment up till now and I believe it to be a pretty fair one. Ye good on him for sticking to his ideals in the face of adversity, bad that he doesn't really deal with the adverst problems

Thank you! That's precisely what I've been trying to say all this while. Unfortunately, too many people in this forum find any criticism of Shirou's character to be indicative of hatred of this series and turn against those who make such points. I don't compare him with any other anime character-- that's an irrelevant comparison to be made when evaluating a single work. I simply voice my opinion and hope to be understood in my reasoning, not have my message oversimplified and interpreted as mere bashing. Again, thank you for proving that someone understands what I'm trying to say.

It's not that Shirou is idealistic that gets me-- there are thousands of characters like that, and that's to be expected of the protagonist of a fantasy tale. The issue is that his character has yet to take on a means of self-improvement.