Aquarion EVOL - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[KleenexGhost]

Okay, Kawamori and Okada, hats off to you two. That was unexpected and it made a lot of sense.

At first I was surprised they pulled the part of Pollon out of left field, but when you look at the series it truly makes sense.

Amata's undying loyalty and affection is truly like that of a dog's. The ultimate companion, never leaving Celiane's side.

Same with Kagura and Apollo. Ever-loving and wild.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Maximillionus

I guess Shrade and the series have something in common this episode.

Even now I kind of doubt that Shrade is actually dead. They still need his Vector.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by ZetaAEUG

The angle/theme i think they're going for is that the love that spans lifetimes is a bad thing. For Mykage/Touma his love has corrupted him and resulted in him becoming a murderer and now he's just a spirit of vengeance. Amata is the opposite and believes that he should be able to live out his life in the present rather than cling to some fate predestined for him.

It's also the message Fudo was giving to Neo-Deava when revealing the truth to them. They panic for a little while when they see the empty page and don't even realize that it's their responsibility to make their own path. Or maybe it's just me trying to make sense of this stupid plot.

You do know that Pollon's love was intitially one sided(And that Silvia believed him to be Apollonius thus the 12,000 promise... Which is now not the case) and that a lot of the BS that has happened to the cast was because of his 12,000 promise to hump Silvia's leg, right? So no, Amata isn't the opposite at all. Especially not after all the episodes where he was spouting out all that BS that Mikono and him are fated and started acting like she was an object for him to win and do with as he pleased. So no, Amata isn't living for the present since he quickly falls back to the fate BS to justify why he should be with Mikono and another way to off handedly make Zessica feel even more like ****.

[Tyabann]

I for one think that Kawamori gets off to making green-haired Chinese girls suffer.

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

At first I was surprised they pulled the part of Pollon out of left field, but when you look at the series it truly makes sense.

I think the really amazing thing about these kind of twists is that you can always find people who will defend them, no matter how bad they get.

It's like I'm watching Angel Beats all over again, except with slightly better production values and worse characters.

[Maximillionus]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Even now I kind of doubt that Shrade is actually dead. They still need his Vector.

They've got like 6 vectors, I'm sure they don't need it. Also the legend was wrote with his blood, Im sure he's dead or it makes this whole episode completly worthless.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Maximillionus

They've got like 6 vectors, I'm sure they don't need it. Also the legend was wrote with his blood, Im sure he's dead or it makes this whole episode completly worthless.

Just like how this episode made a ton of past stuff worthless?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Maximillionus

They've got like 6 vectors, I'm sure they don't need it. Also the legend was wrote with his blood, Im sure he's dead or it makes this whole episode completly worthless.

They have five remaining and only two left at Neo-Deava if his can't be recovered, and I've long suspected that the fact that there are two of the new Aquarions will come into play somehow given the show's obsession with dualities.

I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing Shrade's Vector again if not Shrade himself.

[GoldenLand]

I found a post someone put on Tumblr with screenshots from Genesis supporting the current plot twist. http://greyharmony.tumblr.com/post/2...beasts-of-love

Looking at all of that, it's hard to say that we weren't warned. In fact, I'd say it's very unlikely that they weren't at least seriously considering the Pollon plot twist at the time they made Genesis.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I for one think that Kawamori gets off to making green-haired Chinese girls suffer.



I think the really amazing thing about these kind of twists is that you can always find people who will defend them, no matter how bad they get.

It's like I'm watching Angel Beats all over again, except with slightly better production values and worse characters.

First off, I agree with you. I for one, like you, don't support the twist, but they tryed really hard to get it to make sense. I can't really be shocked about it because what hasn't this series done that contradicts the original. I had to laugh at the fact that bestiality is essentially basis of this undying great romance.

And I forgot to mention that it made the character of Apollonius essentially needless.

And as poorly written as the main characters are, I personally feel that the supporting cast is well done. So just ass-backwards writing.

Zessica is pretty much his red-headed step child. I would be surprised if they tried to say that she is some way a reincarnation of Apollonius. After all Sirius was half of the reincarnation of Celiane. And Amata and Kagura are reincarnated from a dog. A DOG. I'm expecting anything now.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Looking at all of that, it's hard to say that we weren't warned. In fact, I'd say it's very unlikely that they weren't at least seriously considering the Pollon plot twist at the time they made Genesis.

Oh, come on. There's plenty of counter-evidence.

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by ZetaAEUG

The angle/theme i think they're going for is that the love that spans lifetimes is a bad thing. For Mykage/Touma his love has corrupted him and resulted in him becoming a murderer and now he's just a spirit of vengeance. Amata is the opposite and believes that he should be able to live out his life in the present rather than cling to some fate predestined for him.

It's also the message Fudo was giving to Neo-Deava when revealing the truth to them. They panic for a little while when they see the empty page and don't even realize that it's their responsibility to make their own path. Or maybe it's just me trying to make sense of this stupid plot.

Then Amata shouldn't get into a relationship with Mikono.

That's were the problem relies, they apparently want to get those 2 together while pushing a message opposing it. Hence Amata's motives appearing totally incoherent.

[orpheus2]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

I found a post someone put on Tumblr with screenshots from Genesis supporting the current plot twist. http://greyharmony.tumblr.com/post/2...beasts-of-love

Looking at all of that, it's hard to say that we weren't warned. In fact, I'd say it's very unlikely that they weren't at least seriously considering the Pollon plot twist at the time they made Genesis.

That may be true. But, I want to see the counter-evidence as well to decide.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Oh, come on. There's plenty of counter-evidence.

Could you present them then?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

And as poorly written as the main characters are, I personally feel that the supporting cast is well done. So just ass-backwards writing.

Yeah, the supporting cast is great, and like I said the show would have been much better if it had been about them and not about Amata and the dogfucker.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Yeah, the supporting cast is great, and like I said the show would have been much better if it had been about them and not about Amata and the dogfucker.

Kawamori and Okada trolled themselves into thinking that this was a good idea.

[KleenexGhost]

I agree with Zuul. This series is frustrating to watch because of that. Constantly telling one thing but showing the total opposite. This series had so much potential.

SN: Backing up the Dogmata evidence. He did essentially act like a dog that's over-affectionate with his master's leg for 23 episodes.

[Destined_Fate]

You mean the leg of his Master's lover... Which makes everything all kinda of messed up. Especially when Genesis watchers were told that this was a love story spawned from a 12,000 promise. It turns out there was no promise for Genesis, it was just a horny dogs desire to bone the lover of his Master.

[GoldenLand]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Oh, come on. There's plenty of counter-evidence.

Some of things which I had thought were counter-evidence for Pollon-theory from Genesis itself were more or less demolished by that post. The Genesis characters brought up the topics and explained it themselves. You might have evidence to contradict that post, though, so it would be good if it got brought up.

It looks very much to me as if Genesis was planned with Apollo as Pollon in mind. If they hadn't planned it that way, why did they put all those things in the series? In retrospect, those parts of Genesis appear to directly address the Pollon issue. I can't imagine, given the big reveal now, that something like, for example, the picture in Genesis of Apollo with little fluffy wings and a dog's tail crouching attentively by Silvia's feet was not planned.

I'm very impressed by it. Proper trolling from an author shouldn't be an arse-pull: it should be something which the author gave sufficient foreshadowing for but which nobody would realistically be able to guess except in retrospect. Genesis of Aquarion seems to have struck a good balance of that. We have been trolled - and trolled spectacularly - but I don't think we can say that they didn't leave us clues. They were patient enough to leave us many clues in Genesis, even though they must have known that the twists would only be revealed if they made a sequel.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

You mean the leg of his Master's lover... Which makes everything all kinda of messed up. Especially when Genesis watchers were told that this was a love story spawned from a 12,000 promise. It turns out there was no promise for Genesis, it was just a horny dogs desire to bone the lover of his Master.

Correct.

They made Celiane a cheater, but with the dog. It was just the story of a winged-dog that was reincarnated as a human that wanted to hump the reincarnation of his master's lover.

So much promise for this series. But down the drain. Good characters I would like to see in a better series. Interesting potential storyline, etc.

I've seen people say it was too soon to call this series the Guilty Crown of 2012 or Guilty Crown 2.0 but at this point it's not looking good.

Kawamori and Okada just pulled a George Lucas.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

Correct.

They made Celiane a cheater, but with the dog. It was just the story of a winged-dog that was reincarnated as a human that wanted to hump the reincarnation of his master's lover.

Wasn't Apollonius a cheater on his fiancé for someone who was considered of an animal by his people?

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Thess

Wasn't Apollonius a cheater on his fiancé for someone who was considered of an animal by his people?

True.

One thing I will say is consistent with this series is the theme of hell hath no fury like that of a scorned lover.