2009-05-20, 17:54 | Link #4261 | |||
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2009-05-20, 18:38 | Link #4262 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Like I said in another thread compare how Hiromu Arakawa wrote the Ishval Massacre, and how Okouchi wrote Britannia. Okouchi wasn't trying to say both sides where good, Britannia was clearly the villain. Although i do disgree with you on Bismarck. The man was the second in command and completely loyal to Charles, and frankly how sane can you be when your completely loyal to Charles. |
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2009-05-20, 19:18 | Link #4264 | |||||||||||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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However, I simply can not see them as "two sides of the same coin" in the sense that indicates that they could have basically been the same person. We know nothing about what Schneizel was like as a child, but we know that Lelouch had attachments and personal desires. So from my point of view, their minds are similar, but their "hearts" always were far from being the same. Schneizel is not a horrible person (even though he can be condemned for his actions just like Lelouch), but he is certainly unique. Quote:
Which is why he and Lelouch simply aren't the same. Similar in some ways, yes, but not so similar that you could just put them into each other's shoes. Quote:
But yes, he might have followed the rules. However, that doesn't make him another Schneizel. Quote:
I believe he loved his siblings... but in his own way. A way that allowed him to kill them without hesistation if they became a threat. Quote:
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2009-05-20, 19:24 | Link #4265 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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To him, perhaps. As per his detatchment, he had no will to actually change it for the better, just keep things the way they were.
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2009-05-20, 19:26 | Link #4266 | ||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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That's Schneizel logic for you. xD
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2009-05-20, 19:30 | Link #4267 | ||
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2009-05-23, 10:25 | Link #4270 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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he was also an asshole of epic proportions
an anti-hero to end all anti-heroes not simply anti-heroic but at time capable of full blown villainy you can like him (as I do) but you have to take the good with the bad
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2009-05-23, 13:16 | Link #4272 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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its the OTHER sacrificing that makes him less nice
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2009-05-23, 13:40 | Link #4274 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
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if i sound kind of pissed off at lelouch its for a simple reason
it recently occored to me that what happened with euphie was more damning of him then i originally felt about it its true that the "geassing her to kill all the japanese" was unexpected but here's the thing lelouch went to the SAZ planning to do something almost EXACTLY LIKE THAT he was going to force euhpie to do something that would both destroy her and everything she personally stood for AND make her the most hated person in the entire area so that he can ripe the political benifits he may not have planned to have her kill all those innocent people but for EUHPIE there would be no real difference (except maybe death, which may have been preferable to her life after it) she would have been destroyed completely and utterly, when all she really wanted was to try and help the lives of the japanese people and she wouldnt even be able to explain it becouse she wouldnt be able to remember doing it its even worse then what he did with jeremia becouse jeremia at least had it coming he was trying to frame suzaku inorder to cancel the honorery britannian system and make life considerably WORSE for the people there everything euphie was trying to do was help bring peace to the area with nothing but the BEST of intentions in her heart what ever OTHER benifits people like shnizel may felt this would produce, euphie herself was doing to for the sake of peace and nothing else her only "crime" was that her actions were a problem for lelouch lelouch in the end couldnt go through with it becouse he ended up being confronted by the fact that euphie was so sickinigly sweet that she would even sacrifice her own position in order to imporve the life of the common japanese person (not even britannian) not becouse he was appalled by the idea of what he was about to do not becouse it would have destroyed his sister not becouse he knew suzaku and she were an item not even becosue of his own personal feelings for her he deceided against it becouse SHE showed HIM who the real messiha was she showed him what sacrifice really was what followed was a tragedy but it was a tragedy that up to that point he PLANNED to INTENIONALLY generate he came with that in mind and he almost ended up doing it despite eupihe's complete show of trust in him (going with him alone) and for that i find his actions from that point on (in season 1, at least) to be repulsive
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2009-05-23, 14:31 | Link #4275 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Actually, Lelouch's bastard side never bothered me. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I think it's very endearing when he goes all egocentric and ruthless. I always want to hug him, becase even though a twisted past is no excuse, it's certainly something that makes me go all clovis on the poor guy. Yep, I'm a fangirl.
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2009-05-23, 17:20 | Link #4276 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Well Euphemia WAS about to derail his efforts to change a horribly corrupt government, that she herself admitted she disagreed with.
In doing so she was also tossing out her one and only (admittedly slim) chance of creating a lasting change within that government by becoming Empress. Even then, staying on as a princess and actually applying herself at her studies would have made her able to effect much larger changes down the road than the SAZ. The SAZ was a pinprick of land and only one of Britannia's 18 territories. Cornelia admitted her intentions to hand over Area 11 once she was finished with cleaning up the terrorists. If Euphemia became Viceroy, then she could help the ENTIRE AREA, and if her policies boosted productivity, then the other Areas might follow suit, if only to be making more money. She admitted that she was doing this to get Lelouch and Nunally back, essentially shooting Clovis and everyone the BK killed up to now (like Shirley's father) the middle finger. While Suzaku would still hold the rank of Major, he might have been tempted to follow Euphemia and leave the army. Even if he didn't, without her to shield him, he would probably be blamed by the higher-ups for 'deluding and currupting' Euphemia. Imagine how Cornelia would take it if her little sister renounced her title; her family (as far as she knew) for "Those Elevens" and then Suzaku comes back saying "I want to change more." She'd probably be thinking "Oh, so seducing my sister and making her renounce her family for the ones who killed three of my siblings wasn't good enough for you?!" I can't exactly use this as much of an arguement since it wasn't addressed in canon, but I've mentioned why the SAZ should have actually sent global violence through the roof and started a war the likes of which would rip Japan apart. |
2009-05-23, 17:28 | Link #4277 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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i would agree with you if i believed for a second that lelouch was really concerned with the trouble that the SAZ would cause to the world
or that it wouldnt really work as well as she wanted or that it would only be a mask and not really give the japanese people the true change that they needed so much or that it would prevent her from effecting real change from a position of power or that suzaku would be blamed for it or that any of the reasons you gave for why it wasnt such a good idea but i dont believe for a micro second that lelouch actually cared about any of those things euphie was doing something that was in the way of his own plans thats it she was derailing his plan and he needed to put a stop to it nothing more
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2009-05-23, 17:34 | Link #4278 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Lelouch wanted his revenge more than anything else there. But considering his past and determination, it says a lot that he couldn't do it - even if it was just because he was reminded of what kind of person Euphie was.
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2009-05-23, 17:57 | Link #4279 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: chi town!
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Whoever said he's a Byronic Hero is right on the spot. He's just so damn complex. What just popped into my head was Namor the Sub-Mariner. ^^ |
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2009-05-23, 23:11 | Link #4280 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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I won't disagree that he wanted revenge, and that his original idea of geassing Euphie to shoot him was pretty low, but what about the point that Lelouch made that Euphemia's SAZ plan, as he saw it, was that it would go against the will of the Japanese people, being that it would be coming from Britannian royalty, and appear to be a ploy? This was right before Euphie told Lelouch she would be dropping her place in the lineage to the throne, of course, which was what convinced Lelouch that her plan would work.
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