2012-12-20, 01:30 | Link #1 | ||||
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Sword Art Online - Character Discussion - Kayaba Akihiko
The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Kayaba Akihiko related.
To keep the discussion enjoyable for all Sword Art Online fans, please follow the guidelines below and stay on-topic! Note: Please don't use this for the specifics (i.e. episode, chapter, game, etc. discussion) there are other threads for that stuff.Thread Guidelines
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2012-12-20, 05:46 | Link #2 |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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Let's see... disregarding the morality discussion which promoted the creation of this thread in the first place... what does everyone think about what makes Kayaba tick?
Character Analysis Go! Disclaimer: I am a novel reader, although a fairly forgetful one. I'm fairly certain everything below is just speculation based on what's given to us in the anime. Spoiler for Kayaba Analysis:
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2012-12-20, 12:47 | Link #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Desk
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So forcing thousands of people without approval, consent or perceived knowledge into a death game which they have no control over all for the sake of Kayaba's whimsical desire to create a new world? A new era? Seems incredibly blasphemous to me.
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2012-12-20, 14:01 | Link #5 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Hey, no one is liking what he did. But it seems that it was truly his only aim. His intent was not a massacre. That his actions resulted in a couple thousand deaths is indeed a fact, but that was not his aim.
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2012-12-20, 15:52 | Link #6 |
Marauder Shields
Join Date: Sep 2012
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The way to hell is paved with good intentions.
A genius like him should have known better, but he didn't care as long he could play god. What did he expect would happen after he kidnapped people and forced them to play this death game? The outcome was obvious. Then he has to accept the reality that people don't like to be kidnapped and forced to participate in a death game. That Kabaya willingly played with human lifes is just not justifiable, never. Or is it ok if I kidnap a couple of poeple and force them to fight for their lifes just because I'm a egomanic megalomaniac guy with a god compex that wants to create his new world? Heck no, it is not ok and it is not justifiable. If people willingly want to play a game in where they can die, let them, but not like it happened in SAO. And the morality discussion is important because it shows how much of sick *****... this mass murderer was. Many of the biggest criminals in history have tried to create their own worlds with in their minds "good intentions" but on the way to this world they have direct or indirect killed millions of people. |
2012-12-20, 16:11 | Link #7 | |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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He's a genius, he knew exactly what he was doing and how people would take that. He just chose to go through with it anyway. Sugou was a villain who took an active, malicious desire in hurting and manipulating others for his own personal pleasure and power. Comparatively, Kayaba only cared about his goal, the impact on the lives of the players was an unfortunate consequence of seeing his dream fulfilled. That these people would suffer was inevitable, but his goal was not to create suffering. Side by side, while both men committed evil deeds, Sugou comes off as a far more despicable person, even though Kayaba's indifference took a greater toll on human life. (By my calculations, 347 microhitlers. )
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2012-12-20, 16:13 | Link #8 |
Okuyasu the Bird
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 32
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Y'know, I can't really see Kayaba as the way Dauerlutscher is describing him. He's not some sick fuck who gets a kick out of toying with other people's lives and just wants to be a source of chaos like The Joker from Batman or something. He's never showed any joy or satisfaction towards anyone dying in while they were trapped in SAO, and I think that's a pretty big difference.
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2012-12-20, 16:18 | Link #9 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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Presumably Kayaba knew/felt he should be punished for the actions--after all, he set himself up to be the final boss, and if the "echo" of him in the ALO arc is any indication, set himself up under the same death game rules for that final boss fight like everyone else, so that the person who killed his avatar would kill him as well.
Also, I don't know if anyone's brought this up yet, but I do think part of the reason why Kirito wasn't openly hostile to Kayaba in ALO is both because he had just aided Kirito in defeating Sugou to save Asuna, and because he had inadvertently gotten to know Kayaba as a person due to their interactions as Heathcliff--how do we know that Kayaba changed his personality to be Heathcliff? The echo was pretty reasonable as a person (so to speak), and so was Heathcliff--after all, after getting Kirito to join his guild only for someone to murder a comrade before making an attempt on him, Kirito says he and Asuna are going on vacation and he's like "That's fine, you deserve it after that crap. Sorry." So I do believe that Kirito knows that Kayaba is a monster, but he for a good deal of time got to see Kayaba as a person. And that person went and aided Kirito when for all intents and purposes he didn't have to.
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2012-12-20, 16:54 | Link #10 | |
Marauder Shields
Join Date: Sep 2012
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And that Kayabays goal was not to create suffering is irrelevant beacuse he must have nown the outcome of his deeds, but he simply didn't care. Kayaba is responsible for the suffering an death of thousends of people. Kayaba is just a different kind of a monster than Sugou, thats all. |
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2012-12-20, 17:47 | Link #11 |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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It's hard to direct hatred at someone who doesn't care.
Had Kirito made a bitter, impassioned speech at the end of episode 14, calling him a monster and casting the deaths of everyone at Kayaba's feet, I'm sure his only reaction would be to shrug and just walk away. Leaving him feeling empty and hollow, compared to the peaceful contentedness which with he chose to spend his (presumed) last moments instead. And I think ultimately, Kirito understands Kayaba's dream, and his goal. In and of itself, the goal is not an evil thing. Only the methods used to achieve it.
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2012-12-20, 18:58 | Link #12 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 31
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And although that may be madness, everybody accepts it. Quote:
Kayaba knew he would die anyway so Kirito's hatred would just reach a wall and nothing else. And as SilverSyko said he wasn't that kind of person who shrugged off the death of the people as none of his business. As Heathcliff he showed that he cared for his guild and the people supporting it, aswell as for the other frontliners. That ofc doesn't lessen the weight of his crimes, but it shows him in a different light as person. |
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2012-12-20, 19:14 | Link #13 | ||
Marauder Shields
Join Date: Sep 2012
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And this world he created, with his methods to assure that people would be forced to be in his world and that he had no problem with accepting the the death and suffering of thousends of people, is what is making him a monster. He played with peoples lifes the moment he created this world and gave himself the right to play God. All his deeds demonstarte exactly what i said about him "he is an egomanic megalomaniac guy with a god compex". And Hatred against people like him? From my point of view, no mater if he cares or not, he deserves to be hated and he has thrown away every rightno right to expect any form of pity or sympathy. Quote:
Fortunately, I live in a country where this madness is outlawed and the absolute majority doesn't accept it. |
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2012-12-20, 19:31 | Link #14 |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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Kayaba is a monster. Nobody here, and nobody in the SAO-verse is offering him pity or sympathy.
Instead, what's being discussed here is empathy. Attempting to understand why he made the decisions he did, for what reasons, and who he was as a person. Doesn't mean that anything he was right, or justified, or acceptable in anyway. Understanding something is not the same as agreeing with it. If you want to consider Kayaba's trait as "Monster" deserves no attempt to understand at all, and that it overrides everything else about who he is or what he did or why, that's fine, I guess. But as a fictional character, Kayaba is a complex person shrouded in mystery, and there's a lot more that can be said about him than "He's a monster, end of discussion." And on the other side of the coin, that really is pretty much all you can say about Sugou.
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2012-12-20, 19:43 | Link #15 |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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I think it's possible to say a bit more about Sugou. He had an inferiority complex driving him to prove that he was better than other people. Not to be better than other people, but just to show it. In a very real sense, he was trying to be Kayaba (Kirito even points this out) but in the end he never understood the man he was so jealous of.
Anyway, given that his whole motivation is to show off his superiority, it's really no surprise that he did a lot of what people like to consider "stupid" moves like explaining his plans or drawing things out. To Sugou, the destination is less important than the process, and it's important that he belittle and demean as many people on the way as possible, or else he might be forced to remember his own weakness. The opposite of Kayaba, really. |
2012-12-20, 20:06 | Link #16 | |
Marauder Shields
Join Date: Sep 2012
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And both, Sugou and Kayaba, clearly knew what the were doing and both clearly didn't care as long the could achieve their goals. The only difference between them is that Sugou was portaid as a moronic pervert with a huge inferior complex. |
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2012-12-20, 20:19 | Link #17 |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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Maybe not here, but I've seen a lot of people dismiss Kayaba as a joke villain with his motives being "i forgot lol + some bullshit about a castle", walking away with not the slightest clue or understanding as to what was going on there.
So, character analysis. And good point, Clarste.
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2012-12-20, 22:36 | Link #18 |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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To be honest, I weirdly...sort of....like him?
As a villain, I mean. Because he doesn't feel like a typical villain. I like how he keeps his composure....and actually plays fair when it comes to Kirito. And for a villain to actually INTENTIONALY help the protagonist out with no strings attached....well....you don't see that every day, do you? Even though he's a terrible guy, he doesn't give off that goofy "MWAHAHA ME EVIIIIL" vibe. XD That's what I like. He's obviously brilliant (intelligence-wise). He definitely gained some respect for Kirito, dare I say it, even admires him, perhaps?
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2012-12-21, 02:08 | Link #19 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Frankly, what you saw with heathcliff was more than likely nothing more than just an act. Afterall he was playing the role of the great leader and as such a leader must show compassion for his men. Heck under his command not a single player had to die as he could have just told them to sit back while he and his immortal body did all the work. His purpose as heathcliff was to keep pushing the players to risk their lives and you can't do that without pretending you care about their lives. Basically, he was just roleplaying. Quote:
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Furtharmore, they went as far as symapthize with his dream as if they were letting Kayaba die happy. No after the terrible things he had down I would at least die with regret, guilt or anything. In a sense, it would have been better for kirito to say NOTHING rather than for him to go on a sympathize with the dream that killed thousands. Heck right after Kayaba leaves Kirito and Asuna are crying over the end of their lives, and yet they just let their murderer walk away without a single nasty word, but instead with word's that seemed more meant to give him some final satisfaction Quote:
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Also Heathcliff was actually more manipultive than human... afterall his primary purpose seemed to be to push players to keep risking their lives. Heck he let them go on their vaction but not before telling them that they would soon be back to the frontlines; it's as if he knew that they would not be able to leave well enough alone and their vaction would only give them MORE reason to fight... which was sorta true as they began to doubt their ability to simply retire and just live in SAO. And heck heathcliff didn't even wait for them to come back on their own as he ended up calling them to the frontline for their hardest battle yet. Heathcliff was not Kayaba's true face, it was just the one he used to manipulate other players into doing what he wanted them too so that he could play out his little story. Quote:
Kayaba does not deserve anykind of sympathy; he didn't have noble goals, or a "greater good" storta reason. He was just a selfish monster that wanted to play in his own little world Quote:
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2012-12-21, 03:03 | Link #20 | ||||
Okuyasu the Bird
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 32
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As for the "not caring" thing, do you have the time to take out of your day and think about everyone in the world who has died that you've never even met before? Cause I know I sure as hell don't. Why should Kayaba care about people he doesn't even know? Quote:
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