(L) Kara No Kyokai

[Xakanis]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

I think I liked episode 5 better than 6.
The first half of 6 seemed to move at a snail's pace.

Spoiler for questions about the plot:

Some questions though, I don't think I got the story that well.
I didn't see God's Word guy's motive, not even sure why Shiki had to fight him. Didn't even know what the outcome of the fight was.
I would like Azaka more but her character design is terrible, I can't tell her apart from anyone else..

The motive of the main antagonist?

Spoiler:

He states that he was just killing time in regard to Ouji's actions, he was actually there on orders from Araya to retrieve a memory for Shiki, the reason for the latter I do not know.

[Goofus Maximus]

It was a bit straight-forward an less-than-creepy for a Kara No Kyoukai episode, but the exposition backhoe sure filled in a lot of the plot. I guess I liked it anyway!

[HandofFate]

another thing I don't get.
I thought Azaka couldn't see the faeries..which was the whole reason why Ryougi had to team up with her. Why could Azaka suddenly be able to see them against the fight in the church?

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Also, on the blind Fujino, it raises the question as to what Shiki really did to her. To me, it seems that Shiki might have chose to kill her eyes instead of her ability to feel pain to get rid of her powers.

Fujino by the end of her fight with Shiki was already effectively blind. She did develope clarvyvionce which means she doesn't even need her eyes.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

another thing I don't get.
I thought Azaka couldn't see the faeries..which was the whole reason why Ryougi had to team up with her. Why could Azaka suddenly be able to see them against the fight in the church?

That is because Ouji didn't keep them "stealth". It is perhaps impossible to use them offensively if they are like this (their appearance and structure change radically when they are attacking).

[HandofFate]

ah I see.

Also..


XD

[orion]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

ah I see.

Also..


XD

So basically, we're talking about parallel universes. Tsukihime, Fate/stay night and KnK are set in parallel universes with only minor characters able to cross over and interact? Ao can cross over but Touko can't?

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by orion

So basically, we're talking about parallel universes. Tsukihime, Fate/stay night and KnK are set in parallel universes with only minor characters able to cross over and interact? Ao can cross over but Touko can't?

I think KnK and Tsukihime are the only mutually exclusive ones because Tsukihime is pretty much a rewrite of KnK. FSN can interact with both, but I'd connect it more to Tsukhime (because it came later).

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Clarste

I think KnK and Tsukihime are the only mutually exclusive ones because Tsukihime is pretty much a rewrite of KnK. FSN can interact with both, but I'd connect it more to Tsukhime (because it came later).

i don't know if can consider tsukihime a remake of knk as other then the Shiki mystic eye both series are quite different.

[kujoe]

I don't think "remake" is a suitable description either.

Like I said before, KnK seems more of a precursor to the world that is Tsukihime and FSN. You have elements of KnK in both Tsukihime and FSN, of which are directly related. From what I know, Tsukihime and FSN practically belong in the same universe, though I cannot be quoted on that.

Nanaya Shiki from Tsukihime is practically comparable to Mikiya in terms of looks, and also hails from a particular special bloodline of some renown similar to Ryougi Shiki—not to mention, that both possess comparable and yet contrasting main powers: Eyes of Death Perception. KnK also features the idea of the Magi, whose machinations play a more prominent role in FSN. Last but not least, Tsukihime and KnK feature Aoko and Touko Aozaki, who despite being featured in two separate universes are—by Nasuverse canon—sisters.

And oh, you also have to take into account the existence of Melty Blood, which is another alternate path springing from Tsukihime.

The whole interrelatedness of these universes reminds me of Kajishima's Tenchi Muyo. There's a quite a number of Tenchi series and spin offs at present, with a few of them having no direct relation with the others at all. Different continuities and all that. The only thing that binds them is that Kajishima differentiates what the main canon is. Nasu on the other hand, doesn't seem to place such importance in such a hierarchy. That is, I haven't heard of him making such a claim of that sort.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by kujoe

I don't think "remake" is a suitable description either.

Like I said before, KnK seems more of a precursor to the world that is Tsukihime and FSN. You have elements of KnK in both Tsukihime and FSN, of which are directly related. From what I know, Tsukihime and FSN practically belong in the same universe, though I cannot be quoted on that.

Nanaya Shiki from Tsukihime is practically comparable to Mikiya in terms of looks, and also hails from a particular special bloodline of some renown similar to Ryougi Shiki—not to mention, that both possess comparable and yet contrasting main powers: Eyes of Death Perception. KnK also features the idea of the Magi, whose machinations play a more prominent role in FSN. Last but not least, Tsukihime and KnK feature Aoko and Touko Aozaki, who despite being featured in two separate universes are—by Nasuverse canon—sisters.

And oh, you also have to take into account the existence of Melty Blood, which is another alternate path springing from Tsukihime.

The whole interrelatedness of these universes reminds me of Kajishima's Tenchi Muyo. There's a quite a number of Tenchi series and spin offs at present, with a few of them having no direct relation with the others at all. Different continuities and all that. The only thing that binds them is that Kajishima differentiates what the main canon is. Nasu on the other hand, doesn't seem to place such importance in such a hierarchy. That is, I haven't heard of him making such a claim of that sort.

I didn't mean remake, and that's not what I said. I said "rewrite", and what I meant was taking the same basic principles and starting from scratch. Obviously Shiki and Shiki overlap, although there's a bit of Mikiya thrown in too. More than that though, you've got the sister in love with the brother who goes to some secluded private school, you've got the morbid probing of the minds of serial killers, you've got the Fujino vs Ryougi fight which almost exactly parallels the Akiha vs Nanaya fight, etc. It's not one to one, but it's clear that he felt no shame in ripping off the themes and even specific scenes of his older work to create the basis of Tsukihime.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Clarste

It's not one to one, but it's clear that he felt no shame in ripping off the themes and even specific scenes of his older work to create the basis of Tsukihime.

And then added vampires and porn.

[KaneDragon]

This movie was a bundle of cuteness. Mostly Azaka, but also Shiki--happily getting ready to feed the fish only to pout upon spotting the "Don't feed the fish" sign.

...so I was really surprised when Azaka lost in the Saimoe 2nd Preliminaries yesterday. I mean, I would have campaigned in this thread for sure, whether or not that would have done any good, but I really thought she'd at least have that much in the bag.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

And then added vampires and porn.

I'd say the vampire aspect was very closely related to the serial killer and mage aspect, rather than being something new. Most of the vampires were simply ancient mages a la Araya, and had similar motivations. The vampirism manifested primarily as brutal "tear them apart and eat their flesh and blood" themes and urges, which frankly isn't any different from the supernatural serial killer stuff in KnK. I wouldn't consider the distinction meaningful enough to say it was an entirely new theme. I would say that Arc's character was fairly distinct from anything in KnK though.

The porn I like to consider something that was simply thought to be mandatory for the genre.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Clarste

I'd say the vampire aspect was very closely related to the serial killer and mage aspect, rather than being something new. Most of the vampires were simply ancient mages a la Araya, and had similar motivations. The vampirism manifested primarily as brutal "tear them apart and eat their flesh and blood" themes and urges, which frankly isn't any different from the supernatural serial killer stuff in KnK. I wouldn't consider the distinction meaningful enough to say it was an entirely new theme. I would say that Arc's character was fairly distinct from anything in KnK though.

The porn I like to consider something that was simply thought to be mandatory for the genre.

I was trying to be funny.

I agree though, the vampire aspect just seems like a way to make the bloodier aspects of KnK even more supernatural.

[orion]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

...so I was really surprised when Azaka lost in the Saimoe 2nd Preliminaries yesterday. I mean, I would have campaigned in this thread for sure, whether or not that would have done any good, but I really thought she'd at least have that much in the bag.

Well, she is kind of weird imo with that bro-con bordering on incest thing going on. No offense.

[Spags]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

I think I liked episode 5 better than 6.
The first half of 6 seemed to move at a snail's pace.

Spoiler for questions about the plot:

Some questions though, I don't think I got the story that well.
I didn't see God's Word guy's motive, not even sure why Shiki had to fight him. Didn't even know what the outcome of the fight was.
I would like Azaka more but her character design is terrible, I can't tell her apart from anyone else..

Spoiler for answer about the plot:

So I just finished re-watching movie six and I caught some very interesting dialect that God's Word mention that might answer your question.

First off lets talk about his presence, I like the wishing well analogy brought up before by Estavali

Originally Posted by Estavali

Spoiler for Novel spoilers, recollected from faulty memories. Proceed with caution and take things with a spade of salt =3:

2) Kurokiri's past, his relationship with Ouji Misaya and his eventual end in the novel. The movie skipped his backstory, and the end result sort of makes him look like some bored villian or a mercenary wasting time around young women. In the novel Kurokiri is a victim of a fairy kidnapping, very much like those cases involving changelings. For his case, he somehow escaped (IIRC he managed killed the faeroe holding him) but the price was that he could no longer treated his memories as his own memories. To him, memories have became records, words stored in his mind but nothing that belongs to him. In a way, he is very much like a common PC. For example, in his own words, the reason why he could identify Azaka as Azaka is simply because she fits the "description" of the person known as "Kokuto Azaka". If there happens to be a third person present that fits the description stored in his mind more than Azaka herself, to Kurokiri, that third person is "Kokuto Azaka, not the real thing herself.

This effectively renders him no more than a mirror than reflects the inner wishes of those who interacts with him. Tachibana approached him with the thought of suicide, so he hinted to her that that would be the best way to solve her problems. Ouji, who was actually an adoptee that was seperated from her own brother, approached him, thinking that he was her brother, and Kurokiri, answering her inner thoughts, allowed her to propagate that delusion. You can say that in a way, he's like a wishing well, answering to the desires of the well-wisher.

But what is missing is what wishing on this well does for the user. He stated during his fight with shiki that once the user wish was realized then that wish would consume the user.

Originally Posted by gg-TakaJun subs

But a wish returns to its owner. It consumes the host when the host recalls it.

A good example of this is when Ouji was finally confronted with the truth of her situation by Azaka the giant flower thing came to claim her life cause she realized the reality behind her wish.

So right before God's Word was finished off by shiki, he used his magic to tell shiki that she never lost the memory of what happened on that rainy day when male shiki died, and that she would soon discover it. So once she realized the truth behind the magic ie discovers the magic she would be consumed by the after effect.

Originally Posted by gg-TakaJun subs

I shall play back the grief. Even if you forgot it, the memory is actually recorded inside of you.

Those lines are basically his spell on shiki. So essentially his way of beating shiki and I think araya's attack plan using God's Word was to have shiki be consumed when she finally remembered her past

This is my take on it, tho may be incorrect I think it seems to fit well.

[Tran225]

anyone have link to the song Fairytale Instrument only?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by orion

Well, she is kind of weird imo with that bro-con bordering on incest thing going on. No offense.

All the more reason why she should have made it a bit further.

[The Bloodlust Kid]

I'm really enjoying how the series is unfolding. Though I feel that every time a character is introduced (in this case, Azaka) I feel that it was a waste that their powers only get several minutes of spotlight.