AnimeSuki Forums

hunterx · 2004-06-23, 13:18

to the original poster, if you knew anything about fansubbing you would know that while different people may work under a "group" usually different people sub different shows. It could well be that the people working on azb work faster or the subbing is easier or they have free time etc, while the guys working on hxh may not be so organized or have the time. Your post would have made a lot of sense if lunar only had 1 translator doing everything but they don't so your post is just whining about how slow hxh is being subbed.

SpikeS095 · 2004-06-23, 15:10

Rather than quote individual arguments, I will attempt to justify myself on a more global scale.

First, let me apologize for being overly critical on my post. I was trying to fight off the stupid replies I knew I'd receive. Apparently it didn't work.

The MAJOR point was: based on the "work" ethic demonstrated by Lunar and its staff (i.e., the willingness to wake up at 5AM to qc, the speed at which things are released) it is painfully obviously that their motivations are not completely driven by "love of the anime". You don't sub a show under 24 hours as fast as possible because you are so intensely smitten with it. You sub it that fast because you want to get it out first. Many of you state that "people arent going to work on shows that they don't like", but this happens. A lot. If Lunar is willing to publically state that their dedication drives them to wake up in the morning to work on an episode, where is that dedication on other series?

Looking at Lunar's staff page and Lucier's own personal post, you can draw the conclusion that many staff members are overlapping (only two translators) on their numerous projects. Hunterx, if you took the time to READ Lucier's post, you'd understand that fact. There IS overlap. Thus, I'm saying that I get the impression that they prioritize. I get the impression that they ask themselves week in and week out, "Which is the best way to schedule our work so that we can try to release every show that we sub first this week?" Aishiteruze airs later and comes out earlier. I have a feeling that's not only because of the shorter translation time required, if you catch my drift.

Still, due to "complications in school, and huge projects", they were unable to work on Daphne. Somehow, all these other Lunar releases that you admit to translating came out (i.e. Aishiteruze). Why did you have the time to speed out one show and keep pushing back another? Sounds like prioritizing to me. Even if it only takes an hour or two to sub, you're admitting that you're doing it out of convenience -- when you saw two other groups pick up Aishiteruze, you could have very well just halted/jointed and used that extra hour or two to work on a stalled project, like Daphne. You shouldn't be picking series because they are "easy" or "take little time". You pick them because you want to work on them. If you no longer want to work on them, drop them. If you are no longer able to work on them but still have the desire to, go out and try to find people (fansub classifieds?).

And if you were so adamant about not dropping Hanada, couldn't you have stepped in and finished it off? You are a translator, after all. HxH I won't get into because obviously something happened there that tore apart the project. Still, groups usually drop projects that have no translators -- and I don't see you actively recruiting any staff to replace the ones that have left (help classifieds, anyone?). Instead, I get the vibe that this project has just been "stalled" due to other "higher priority projects" (i.e., spring 2004 series). If your staff is "VERY" busy, as you claim, how did you manage to pick up 5 spring season shows? Again, I must digress.

As for the jointing thing and how you had no idea they were doing it, scarywater shows that a.f.k. released episode 1 of aibaby almost 7 days before you did. You had plenty of advance warning. In fact, scarywater shows that you released episode 2 before you released episode 1 (coincindentally, around the time of a.f.k.'s release). Why on earth would a group do that? Out of love for the anime, I'm sure.

Again, I must emphasize that being in a group, I know how long it takes to sub an entire episode. And for your staff to release Aishiteruze in a day (yes, I know the translation is easy, but the entire process still takes time) demonstrates to me that you push aside those "real lives, real jobs, and real commitments" to sub a show that you are insisting on releasing as soon as possible. Don't say that competition doesn't cross your mind. Your release schedule says otherwise.

Still, I undedrstand that things like translators leaving seriously cramps your ability to sub. As Canealot mentioned, the state of english fansubbing is pretty dismal, at best. All I ask for is the same dedication on your other series; if you care about the show as much as you state you do, you'd either be getting those other staff members on other projects to help out or you'd be actively searching for replacements. If you're not willing to do so, publically state that you have dropped them so that other groups may become interested in picking them up. If there is low support for a series, perhaps it should have never been picked up in the first place (especially if other groups are already doing it.) Say I picked up every new show, subbed a few eps and then watched some staff members quit on me; I could either waste time looking for replacements or drop the projects. Surely not even show you pick up is a "pet project".

"It's based more on cuteness than anything else." -- I'd say this is based more on popularity, wouldn't you? Naruto isn't exactly "cute", how many groups have subbed that one?

Redundancy -- Yes, redundancy is good. This is why I suggested a joint. Both groups are perfectly capable of doing it on their own. If they jointed, there's always the failsafe waiting there in case something falls out. Nowhere did I suggest a fansubbing union. There's too many egos to feed for that to ever work.

Again, I am not directly attacking your group. You do fine work that I am happy to watch week in and week out. The gist of my entire argument is that perhaps your efforts could be put to better use elsewhere rather than continuing on some oversubbed shows. But hey, it's your fansub group. I'm just ranting.

Ishinda · 2004-06-23, 15:49

I only read the first post and I have no idea what other people said, but this is my opinion:

1) Who cares.
2) If people wanted someone to bitch at them for stupid things like this, then they'd ask for it or turn to their crappy parents and/or friends
3) I don't care, do you?
4) Get something else to waste your time on without restricting other people's freedom.
5) If someone would start saying things like these about my group, I'd have a good laugh and imagine them being sodomized by a bunch of horses.
6) Yea, I really don't care.
7) And on this day, God rested from creating a whole collection of stupid morons, and if you see it took him a whole week, there are obviously too many like you.

ChoBaka · 2004-06-23, 15:57

I feel bad for Lunar here because, as we all know, most of the heavy-hitting fansub groups 'compete' to some degree. And I feel that (of course, due to the issue at hand being series that Lunar is/was doing) the issue got blown out of proportion only with Lunar (in this thread).

If you read some old threads concerning Toriyama and ANBU-AonE about Naruto, you'd realize the two groups, at some point, had a healthy competitive relationship. Both groups would try to sub the show as quickly as possible, but the quality was also quite good. Now you could argue, why have 2 groups subbing Naruto? Or 4, or 7, or 12, or however many groups there are/were subbing this show...

First of all, redundancy provides security. If a group (or even several) were to drop the series, the remaining groups could continue on. Many groups often start out subbing a series, but due to unforseeable events many also drop or get stalled on particular things. Because fansubbing is more of a hobby than it is a job, it often gets placed on the backburner if things are hectic with school, work, family, relationships, etc.

Another reason for competition is people's inherent laziness. People get lazy (or already are, hehe). With no competition, I know (some) people would just sit on projects and take forever to finish anything. Knowing that there are other people out there holds you accountable (in a sense), so that you don't give in to those lazy tendencies. Laziness doesn't just concern speed... it also has a negative impact on the quality of work people put into the various aspects of fansubbing a show.

There are several good reasons AGAINST having a federation of fansubbers divying out (sp?) series to insure that all series get equal coverage.

One reason would be... sometimes multiple groups want to do the same show, and no amount of negotiations will change this. Ultimately, you can't force individuals (or groups) to do something. Unhappy people generally do poor work, unless they're being forced at gun-point to do it.

Another reason would be... organizing meetings online is difficult and time consuming. IRC, IM, or whatever other means of online organization is often inefficient. For different groups to first of all: organize their own opinions within the group members would be difficult enough, and second of all: getting the heads together to talk about this would be a royal pain.

There are also groups out there that hate each other and will not talk. Some fansubbers dislike each other on a personal level. Some groups don't like doing joints with others (at all, or with certain groups only), as they don't know the other staff or don't trust them enough to work well together.

Now about Lucier's (or any TL/fansubber's) work habits...

Would you rather have Lucier work on a few series that he likes, or not work at all and give up fansubbing? I'd rather have translators work on series they like than give up on fansubbing. Again, you can't force someone to take interest in something they don't like. If you paid someone to do it they might, of course, since there's monetary compensation involved. Translators are human too. They have their various reasons for working on the shows that they DO work on. Should people only fansub because of love for anime? Are we knights that live according to some code of chivalry? Are we public servants? Are we saints, monks, wandering do-gooders? I know most of us aren't anything close to those things.

Maybe Lucier's not giving you all of his reasons for the way he chooses to spend his time on certain things rather than others. He might have personal reasons that he's not mentioning, but, first of all, those reasons aren't really any of your (or my) business, and second of all, he probably wouldn't want to express and expose his complete self on a forum where he'd just get flamed for doing so. The same goes for Lunar... they don't have to make public the various things that go on within their staff community. Sometimes doing so creates more of a mess than it does good.

On a side note, I don't know what you mean by you saying you're into the Korean fansubbing scene (Korean->English? Japanese->Korean?), but if you really want to watch Daphne or whatever that badly, there are scripts out there. As for your comments about the English fansubbing scene being dismal, I'd disagree. The various language fansubbing scenes all have their different ethics, work habits, strengths and weaknesses. What may be considered acceptable in one culture may be looked down in another, and so on.

Access · 2004-06-23, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikeS095

"It's based more on cuteness than anything else." -- I'd say this is based more on popularity, wouldn't you? Naruto isn't exactly "cute", how many groups have subbed that one?

Redundancy -- Yes, redundancy is good. This is why I suggested a joint. Both groups are perfectly capable of doing it on their own. If they jointed, there's always the failsafe waiting there in case something falls out. Nowhere did I suggest a fansubbing union. There's too many egos to feed for that to ever work.

Again, I am not directly attacking your group. You do fine work that I am happy to watch week in and week out. The gist of my entire argument is that perhaps your efforts could be put to better use elsewhere rather than continuing on some oversubbed shows. But hey, it's your fansub group. I'm just ranting.

Different groups care about different things. Some groups like HnK will do anything cute like 'Bottle Fairy' and 'Princess Tutu' and Comet. Other groups will only sub a show that is subbed by at least 4 other groups and won't consider a show otherwise. It's b'cos groups are made up of people and people act on their own accord.

A joint is not the same as redundancy. Most joints are joints only in semantics, it's a full team of members who are in different groups. The only way a joint would be full redundancy is if there were multiple translators and most joints only have one. Look at the example with HxH, the loss of one member and political squables shelved the (joint) project. In the case that both groups already have a full team, what do the redundant team members do? Work on other projects instead of their favored one? A group is only going to lose members that way. The people who want to work on something and are denied that by a group will just join another group that will let them do what they like and release it. Some people join multiple groups for this reason, if group A is only doing one project you care about and you want to work on more, you join group B, C, and D, also with only one project you like. And that's enough for most people, working on 4 projects you like even if you have to join 4 different groups to do it.

Most of the sucessful groups today are not managed by a single guy top-down. It's just a bunch of people who happen to be working together on specified problems. One guy can't say 'we need to work on this' when people have found other things they'd rather do. Many people today are oversenstive, presumptive, hard to work with, etc. The longer any given team spends together subbing something, the greater chance some kind of friction will drive them apart. Few ordinary teams can recover from being driven apart like this.

SpikeS095 · 2004-06-23, 16:37

Yes, I am being unfair to Lunar by singling them out, and I apologize. They were just the first group to come to mind.

Diffiferent groups like different things, yes, but in this scenario Lunar has shown to have a wide range of tastes, so that doesn't apply.

I described the joint as having redundancy because both gropus have been perfectly fine doing it on their own. I am aware that most joints aren't that way.

"Many people today are oversenstive, presumptive, hard to work with, etc." -- Very true.

Yes, a federation of fansubbers would be a bad idea. I'm not arguging that; it's a moot point.

I also did state that my points were made out of speculation/likelihood. No one knows what goes on behind the scenes.

I do Japanese->Korean subs. I said that the state was dismal simply because new groups are popping up every day (per Canealot's argument.)

Apparently this all boils down to something that's already been discussed before, and none of us are contributing any unique viewpoints any more. I just wanted to make a point, however misguided/illogical it might be.

Too bad you can't even have a civil conversation any more without being flamed. Thanks, Ishinda.

Apparently I'm a stupid moron. Close the thread.

outlaw55 · 2004-06-23, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucier

The final thing you mentioned, the I think warrents explaning is HxH...
I did *not* approve of this project, and it was picked up and started by our encoder at the time...
It seemed useless to sub a series that two groups had already done, and I made my view clear... but said encoder felt that he wanted to do it again, in high quality, and so it was started...

I had asked for your permission before starting the project and you DID approve of it, so don't pull that bullshit...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirCanealot

As we see with Outlaw, there was an internal staff problem. A fansub group is not one whole - it is broke down into many people. And the gears may be well oiled for one project, and not for another. Sad as this is, this is how it is.
It is simply not a case of saying "the translator should work on the show that is stalled". Well, for starters: does he WANT to work on the stalled show? Perhaps he is not a fan of it, perhaps he's already low enough on time doing a show he really wants to translate. Sure, I'm sure in many groups, the translator could be ORDERED to work on it, but well, that's never a good thing in our context -_-

In the case of HxH, the translator agreed to do it in which I told him if he did not like it he could stop, BUT, the reason he stopped translating it was because he did not like me personally, he built a bot to keep banning me, so i banned his bot and he quit (and after that he learned he could use quiting as blackmail...needless to say I was eventually kicked off of all projects INVOLVING him, and I quit because of that). So in conclusion, you have to take into mind the childishness of the translator as well as to if they will finish the series.

SirCanealot · 2004-06-23, 17:20

Heh, Outlaw, you should come and work for our group. Our encoder and you have a few things in common....
Not that you'd have anything to do more than once per 6 years though -_-

Ishinda · 2004-06-23, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikeS095

Too bad you can't even have a civil conversation any more without being flamed.

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikeS095

Thanks, Ishinda.

No problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikeS095

Apparently I'm a stupid moron.

Yup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikeS095

Close the thread.

Splendid idea.

SirCanealot · 2004-06-23, 17:43

Ishinda - if that is your real name - it'll be a first for me to say this, but stop trolling the damn thread.

It won't be a first for me to say you suck. Which you do - evidently.

Ishinda · 2004-06-23, 17:54

Yes, it's so much fun to reply to a statement that just says that fansubbers shouldn't release so fast because the person doesn't want them to. Only instead of just bitching about it, he lengtens his whine like a whale's member preparing to discharge his load in the next 5 minutes.

DrWho2002 · 2004-06-23, 18:24

I don't think anyone should expect any kind of schedule whatsoever when it comes to fansubbing anime. It's just better that way.

Adol · 2004-06-23, 18:39

Its a shame that a new Naruto group pops up every 2 months, and they do it for the fame. It kills groups that actually do decent jobs on anime. The Speed subbers will never stop, and for that, we are stuck with crap subs. Soldats, Live-Evil, and the rest, Do a great job subbing, but they don't get nearly as many downloads as speed subber groups like Shin-otaku, Aoi anime, Lunar, just to name a few. And if thats what the people want, its quite a shame. It gets real annoying seeing more naruto groups popping up for no reason. Go put some effort into something else, like POT or Detective Q, I mean come on people.....

There is more to life than Naruto and Full Metal Alchemist

Adol · 2004-06-23, 18:42

And another thing concerning Lunar, If you guys didn't wanna sub Hunter X Hunter... Then why were you the first to release the series, as well as using VHS raws, since VHS comes out before dvd...... Something isn't adding up here...

Access · 2004-06-23, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adol

And another thing concerning Lunar, If you guys didn't wanna sub Hunter X Hunter... Then why were you the first to release the series, as well as using VHS raws, since VHS comes out before dvd...... Something isn't adding up here...

You guys analyze too much, if you poke away at anything for long enough, sooner or later you'll start finding holes. You work off partial information and assumptions and then you treat it like the truth in order to say 'ah-ha, gotcha!'. People in a group come and go, or they change, what group members wanted in the past is not necessarily what they want in the future or present. Just deal with it and move on, if you like it, download it; if you want to participate in a group then do so, if you don't want to participate then don't. Understand that every group is different and that a groups' preferences change with time. Know what you don't know and don't fool yourself into fallacies and such.

Zell2k3 · 2004-06-23, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adol

And another thing concerning Lunar, If you guys didn't wanna sub Hunter X Hunter... Then why were you the first to release the series, as well as using VHS raws, since VHS comes out before dvd...... Something isn't adding up here...

They had an internal issue. Then they dropped all HxHs.

outlaw55 · 2004-06-23, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adol

And another thing concerning Lunar, If you guys didn't wanna sub Hunter X Hunter... Then why were you the first to release the series, as well as using VHS raws, since VHS comes out before dvd...... Something isn't adding up here...

I stated this earlier, I was in Lunar and I WANTED to do HxH BAD, but the Translator wanted to act like a little baby and pout cuz he didn't like me as a person!

Access · 2004-06-23, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlaw55

I stated this earlier, I was in Lunar and I WANTED to do HxH BAD, but the Translator wanted to act like a little baby and pout cuz he didn't like me as a person!

One person stating it does not make it true, it's only your part of the story and not the whole story or the truth.

outlaw55 · 2004-06-23, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Access

One person stating it does not make it true, it's only your part of the story and not the whole story or the truth.

Ok dumb fuck...go asd Tengouki himself if he likes me, the answer will be NO!!! Ask Sexy_Commando or Kail, both of them will tell you the same thing I did. I don't make up shit to glorify myself, I'm a jackass and I know it, but he DID drop it because he did not like me dipshit...

SirCanealot · 2004-06-23, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishinda

Yes, it's so much fun to reply to a statement that just says that fansubbers shouldn't release so fast because the person doesn't want them to. Only instead of just bitching about it, he lengtens his whine like a whale's member preparing to discharge his load in the next 5 minutes.

I see merrit to his argument, even if it is flawed.

All you can add to it is a few lines, adding nothing to the trhread what so ever, except making yourself look more like an idiot.

Sorry.

2004-06-23, 13:18	Link #21
hunterx ore wa kanpeki da Join Date: Nov 2003	to the original poster, if you knew anything about fansubbing you would know that while different people may work under a "group" usually different people sub different shows. It could well be that the people working on azb work faster or the subbing is easier or they have free time etc, while the guys working on hxh may not be so organized or have the time. Your post would have made a lot of sense if lunar only had 1 translator doing everything but they don't so your post is just whining about how slow hxh is being subbed.

2004-06-23, 15:10	Link #22
SpikeS095 Fighting Stupidity Join Date: Apr 2003	Rather than quote individual arguments, I will attempt to justify myself on a more global scale. First, let me apologize for being overly critical on my post. I was trying to fight off the stupid replies I knew I'd receive. Apparently it didn't work. The MAJOR point was: based on the "work" ethic demonstrated by Lunar and its staff (i.e., the willingness to wake up at 5AM to qc, the speed at which things are released) it is painfully obviously that their motivations are not completely driven by "love of the anime". You don't sub a show under 24 hours as fast as possible because you are so intensely smitten with it. You sub it that fast because you want to get it out first. Many of you state that "people arent going to work on shows that they don't like", but this happens. A lot. If Lunar is willing to publically state that their dedication drives them to wake up in the morning to work on an episode, where is that dedication on other series? Looking at Lunar's staff page and Lucier's own personal post, you can draw the conclusion that many staff members are overlapping (only two translators) on their numerous projects. Hunterx, if you took the time to READ Lucier's post, you'd understand that fact. There IS overlap. Thus, I'm saying that I get the impression that they prioritize. I get the impression that they ask themselves week in and week out, "Which is the best way to schedule our work so that we can try to release every show that we sub first this week?" Aishiteruze airs later and comes out earlier. I have a feeling that's not only because of the shorter translation time required, if you catch my drift. Still, due to "complications in school, and huge projects", they were unable to work on Daphne. Somehow, all these other Lunar releases that you admit to translating came out (i.e. Aishiteruze). Why did you have the time to speed out one show and keep pushing back another? Sounds like prioritizing to me. Even if it only takes an hour or two to sub, you're admitting that you're doing it out of convenience -- when you saw two other groups pick up Aishiteruze, you could have very well just halted/jointed and used that extra hour or two to work on a stalled project, like Daphne. You shouldn't be picking series because they are "easy" or "take little time". You pick them because you want to work on them. If you no longer want to work on them, drop them. If you are no longer able to work on them but still have the desire to, go out and try to find people (fansub classifieds?). And if you were so adamant about not dropping Hanada, couldn't you have stepped in and finished it off? You are a translator, after all. HxH I won't get into because obviously something happened there that tore apart the project. Still, groups usually drop projects that have no translators -- and I don't see you actively recruiting any staff to replace the ones that have left (help classifieds, anyone?). Instead, I get the vibe that this project has just been "stalled" due to other "higher priority projects" (i.e., spring 2004 series). If your staff is "VERY" busy, as you claim, how did you manage to pick up 5 spring season shows? Again, I must digress. As for the jointing thing and how you had no idea they were doing it, scarywater shows that a.f.k. released episode 1 of aibaby almost 7 days before you did. You had plenty of advance warning. In fact, scarywater shows that you released episode 2 before you released episode 1 (coincindentally, around the time of a.f.k.'s release). Why on earth would a group do that? Out of love for the anime, I'm sure. Again, I must emphasize that being in a group, I know how long it takes to sub an entire episode. And for your staff to release Aishiteruze in a day (yes, I know the translation is easy, but the entire process still takes time) demonstrates to me that you push aside those "real lives, real jobs, and real commitments" to sub a show that you are insisting on releasing as soon as possible. Don't say that competition doesn't cross your mind. Your release schedule says otherwise. Still, I undedrstand that things like translators leaving seriously cramps your ability to sub. As Canealot mentioned, the state of english fansubbing is pretty dismal, at best. All I ask for is the same dedication on your other series; if you care about the show as much as you state you do, you'd either be getting those other staff members on other projects to help out or you'd be actively searching for replacements. If you're not willing to do so, publically state that you have dropped them so that other groups may become interested in picking them up. If there is low support for a series, perhaps it should have never been picked up in the first place (especially if other groups are already doing it.) Say I picked up every new show, subbed a few eps and then watched some staff members quit on me; I could either waste time looking for replacements or drop the projects. Surely not even show you pick up is a "pet project". "It's based more on cuteness than anything else." -- I'd say this is based more on popularity, wouldn't you? Naruto isn't exactly "cute", how many groups have subbed that one? Redundancy -- Yes, redundancy is good. This is why I suggested a joint. Both groups are perfectly capable of doing it on their own. If they jointed, there's always the failsafe waiting there in case something falls out. Nowhere did I suggest a fansubbing union. There's too many egos to feed for that to ever work. Again, I am not directly attacking your group. You do fine work that I am happy to watch week in and week out. The gist of my entire argument is that perhaps your efforts could be put to better use elsewhere rather than continuing on some oversubbed shows. But hey, it's your fansub group. I'm just ranting.

2004-06-23, 15:49	Link #23
Ishinda Junior Member Join Date: May 2004	I only read the first post and I have no idea what other people said, but this is my opinion: 1) Who cares. 2) If people wanted someone to bitch at them for stupid things like this, then they'd ask for it or turn to their crappy parents and/or friends 3) I don't care, do you? 4) Get something else to waste your time on without restricting other people's freedom. 5) If someone would start saying things like these about my group, I'd have a good laugh and imagine them being sodomized by a bunch of horses. 6) Yea, I really don't care. 7) And on this day, God rested from creating a whole collection of stupid morons, and if you see it took him a whole week, there are obviously too many like you.

2004-06-23, 15:57	Link #24
ChoBaka Semi-retired Translator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon	I feel bad for Lunar here because, as we all know, most of the heavy-hitting fansub groups 'compete' to some degree. And I feel that (of course, due to the issue at hand being series that Lunar is/was doing) the issue got blown out of proportion only with Lunar (in this thread). If you read some old threads concerning Toriyama and ANBU-AonE about Naruto, you'd realize the two groups, at some point, had a healthy competitive relationship. Both groups would try to sub the show as quickly as possible, but the quality was also quite good. Now you could argue, why have 2 groups subbing Naruto? Or 4, or 7, or 12, or however many groups there are/were subbing this show... First of all, redundancy provides security. If a group (or even several) were to drop the series, the remaining groups could continue on. Many groups often start out subbing a series, but due to unforseeable events many also drop or get stalled on particular things. Because fansubbing is more of a hobby than it is a job, it often gets placed on the backburner if things are hectic with school, work, family, relationships, etc. Another reason for competition is people's inherent laziness. People get lazy (or already are, hehe). With no competition, I know (some) people would just sit on projects and take forever to finish anything. Knowing that there are other people out there holds you accountable (in a sense), so that you don't give in to those lazy tendencies. Laziness doesn't just concern speed... it also has a negative impact on the quality of work people put into the various aspects of fansubbing a show. There are several good reasons AGAINST having a federation of fansubbers divying out (sp?) series to insure that all series get equal coverage. One reason would be... sometimes multiple groups want to do the same show, and no amount of negotiations will change this. Ultimately, you can't force individuals (or groups) to do something. Unhappy people generally do poor work, unless they're being forced at gun-point to do it. Another reason would be... organizing meetings online is difficult and time consuming. IRC, IM, or whatever other means of online organization is often inefficient. For different groups to first of all: organize their own opinions within the group members would be difficult enough, and second of all: getting the heads together to talk about this would be a royal pain. There are also groups out there that hate each other and will not talk. Some fansubbers dislike each other on a personal level. Some groups don't like doing joints with others (at all, or with certain groups only), as they don't know the other staff or don't trust them enough to work well together. Now about Lucier's (or any TL/fansubber's) work habits... Would you rather have Lucier work on a few series that he likes, or not work at all and give up fansubbing? I'd rather have translators work on series they like than give up on fansubbing. Again, you can't force someone to take interest in something they don't like. If you paid someone to do it they might, of course, since there's monetary compensation involved. Translators are human too. They have their various reasons for working on the shows that they DO work on. Should people only fansub because of love for anime? Are we knights that live according to some code of chivalry? Are we public servants? Are we saints, monks, wandering do-gooders? I know most of us aren't anything close to those things. Maybe Lucier's not giving you all of his reasons for the way he chooses to spend his time on certain things rather than others. He might have personal reasons that he's not mentioning, but, first of all, those reasons aren't really any of your (or my) business, and second of all, he probably wouldn't want to express and expose his complete self on a forum where he'd just get flamed for doing so. The same goes for Lunar... they don't have to make public the various things that go on within their staff community. Sometimes doing so creates more of a mess than it does good. On a side note, I don't know what you mean by you saying you're into the Korean fansubbing scene (Korean->English? Japanese->Korean?), but if you really want to watch Daphne or whatever that badly, there are scripts out there. As for your comments about the English fansubbing scene being dismal, I'd disagree. The various language fansubbing scenes all have their different ethics, work habits, strengths and weaknesses. What may be considered acceptable in one culture may be looked down in another, and so on.

2004-06-23, 16:37	Link #26
SpikeS095 Fighting Stupidity Join Date: Apr 2003	Yes, I am being unfair to Lunar by singling them out, and I apologize. They were just the first group to come to mind. Diffiferent groups like different things, yes, but in this scenario Lunar has shown to have a wide range of tastes, so that doesn't apply. I described the joint as having redundancy because both gropus have been perfectly fine doing it on their own. I am aware that most joints aren't that way. "Many people today are oversenstive, presumptive, hard to work with, etc." -- Very true. Yes, a federation of fansubbers would be a bad idea. I'm not arguging that; it's a moot point. I also did state that my points were made out of speculation/likelihood. No one knows what goes on behind the scenes. I do Japanese->Korean subs. I said that the state was dismal simply because new groups are popping up every day (per Canealot's argument.) Apparently this all boils down to something that's already been discussed before, and none of us are contributing any unique viewpoints any more. I just wanted to make a point, however misguided/illogical it might be. Too bad you can't even have a civil conversation any more without being flamed. Thanks, Ishinda. Apparently I'm a stupid moron. Close the thread.

2004-06-23, 17:20	Link #28
SirCanealot What? I am washed up! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London, England Age: 39	Heh, Outlaw, you should come and work for our group. Our encoder and you have a few things in common.... Not that you'd have anything to do more than once per 6 years though -_-

2004-06-23, 17:43	Link #30
SirCanealot What? I am washed up! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London, England Age: 39	Ishinda - if that is your real name - it'll be a first for me to say this, but stop trolling the damn thread. It won't be a first for me to say you suck. Which you do - evidently.

2004-06-23, 17:54	Link #31
Ishinda Junior Member Join Date: May 2004	Yes, it's so much fun to reply to a statement that just says that fansubbers shouldn't release so fast because the person doesn't want them to. Only instead of just bitching about it, he lengtens his whine like a whale's member preparing to discharge his load in the next 5 minutes.

2004-06-23, 18:24	Link #32
DrWho2002 Fushigi Mystery!! @_@ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canada, eh?	I don't think anyone should expect any kind of schedule whatsoever when it comes to fansubbing anime. It's just better that way.

2004-06-23, 18:39	Link #33
Adol Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	Its a shame that a new Naruto group pops up every 2 months, and they do it for the fame. It kills groups that actually do decent jobs on anime. The Speed subbers will never stop, and for that, we are stuck with crap subs. Soldats, Live-Evil, and the rest, Do a great job subbing, but they don't get nearly as many downloads as speed subber groups like Shin-otaku, Aoi anime, Lunar, just to name a few. And if thats what the people want, its quite a shame. It gets real annoying seeing more naruto groups popping up for no reason. Go put some effort into something else, like POT or Detective Q, I mean come on people..... There is more to life than Naruto and Full Metal Alchemist

2004-06-23, 18:42	Link #34
Adol Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	And another thing concerning Lunar, If you guys didn't wanna sub Hunter X Hunter... Then why were you the first to release the series, as well as using VHS raws, since VHS comes out before dvd...... Something isn't adding up here...