2004-04-13, 19:07
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Link #1 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I'm grateful for the fansubs but I have to rant..
I personally am very glad that more than one group are doing Pretty Cure and Mermaid Melody. Okay if anyone from shoujo reads this, it's nothing personal okay? But I have to vent! I absolutely *despise* the way Shoujo messes up the OP animations with thier credits and cutesey home made logos. A lot of fansub groups do this, unfortunately, but Shoujo are the worst that I have seen. AGH! When I watch the op animation, I want it pristine and untouched! I want *no* extra graphics other than the subtitles themselves! I do not want to see how creative you think you are. I am not impressed. Just give me the original animation and nothing else.
Credits should be on a title screen *before* the original op animation, not during. Anime Daisuki are huge offenders as well with Kamekaze Kaitou Jeanne. Yes, I'm grateful they are doing it. But why in God's name do they have to stick the credits *right over the animation* when there is acres of blank space where no action is going on in the screen? The touching bit at the end of the kkj op where Sinbad and Jeanne are looking at each other is completely ruined by some subber's nickname all over Jeanne's face! AGH! I can only hope that one day I will have some kind of graphics program that will enable me to take all that extraenaous crap OFF and leave it as the original animators intended! I digress....I am so glad that more than one group are doing mmppp and pretty cure, because I don't want Shoujo's horrible logos and ugly karaeoke fonts. (the one on mermaid melody's op is particularly hideous..ugh) Those logos are an abomination, they try to make them like the original Japanese logo and fail miserably...it's like those little adverts for crisps that we got in England that tried to imitate "Friends" . Trying to imitate with none of the style or imagination of the original. It's just embarrassing. Even the very little 'mermaid melody' caption at the top of the logo on the A Flux and Lunar version irritates me...although it is much less intrusive than the Shoujo version and I can live with it..but really, I would prefer that the title be underneath the logo as a subtitle and with *nothing* added to the original logo. Keep it as close to the original as possible people! No home made English logos, no "creative" fonts, just keep it simple and unobtrusive! (and Aflux/Lunar have lately marred a sterling job on MMPPP by using a nigh on unreadable fancy font for the karaoke from about episode 6 onwards...*sigh*, note to fansubbers, if people can't read the font easily, don't use it!) And while I'm here, knock it off with the 'presented by fansub group x' stuff as if *you* made the series and not the original creators. Yes, I appreciate your hard work and I'm grateful you are doing it. But you don't have the right to say you're 'presenting' it, all you have the right to say is that you are presenting the translation of it. There's a difference. Someone else made just this point on the forum before and I agree with them! And I may say, in closing that looking at the VKLL old as the hills subbing of Sailor Stars, wow, what a contrast! Easy to read unobtrusive subititles with the OP and ED animations completely untouched! We only get a translation of the song lyrics on the first episode in the batch as well! Although I have come to enjoy the karaoke thing, it really isn't particularly necessary. Let me reiterate, I am totally grateful for the fansubbers' hard work, I really am, but I just needed to rant....and the fact that some people are messing up the OPs with uneccessary visual crap just so they can have their egos fed by friends in IRC or wherever can go oooh you're so creative or some such nonesense....agggh. It's just deeply annoying that's all. (having said that AFK are very good with their credits and they blend in very well, I would still prefer a title screen to keep fansub credits and original Japanese ones seperate though) Sorry if I've offended anyone, I'm a pretty blunt kind of a person. Nothing personal guys. (this originally was a post in the 'why do groups compete' thread but as it went waaay off topic I thought it should be separate, and yes I expect it has been said before, but like I say, I needed to get it all out) ahhh I feel better now. Yes the point I meant to make in amongst all this long winded diatribe is-I am glad more than one fansub group subs some series because it's good to be able to choose the one you prefer! (I'm just sorry that only one group is doing kkj so I could have a version that doesn't have writing all over the characters' faces in the op...that annoys me. A lot. Can you tell?  But thanks for the fansubs anyway guys. It's just that you annoy me sometimes soooo much. *punches pillow in an affectionate yet manly way* (I'm a girl by the way! ha) |
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2004-04-13, 19:10
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Link #2 |
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Afflicted by the vanities
 Fansubber
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fish-shape Paumanok
Age: 36
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Other groups that like to do this:
- AnimeJunkies (never forget  )- Anime-Keep MORE LIKE GIANT ANIMATED LOGO-KEEP AM I CORRECT - XSiteClub (a little-known group, but worth mentioning because they have animated lens flares on all their credits) - Soldats, as in GIGANTIC SOLDATS LOGO The correct method of credits, as smart people know, is to put them in the ED theme so that you aren't screwing up the OP theme.
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2004-04-13, 19:12
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Link #3 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
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i concur with you rant... they do too much...
but i have a problem with people demanding stuff like karaoke... but then i'm the type to just skip over the opening credits altogether and get to the show... so it never has bothered me.. but i agree with you that it's in bad taste to blotch the video animation with logos and credits
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2004-04-13, 19:29
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Link #5 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Antwerp area, Belgium, Europa
Age: 48
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if you ant a clean and perfect OP then download a raw...
Personally I don't mind the names of all those people in the opening song, they worked on it , they deserve to have their name in the credits ... Besides I think Lunar no longer add their logo in the OP they just show a still screen at the beginning of the episode these days . |
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2004-04-13, 19:36
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Link #6 |
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Lord Sesshoumaru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: "Post a Photo of Yourself!" Thread
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I do find the logos annoying but i can live with them...but the one that really got to me was the BIG BLACK BAR on Rice-box's Shadow Skill (i don't mind it in the intro...but when they put it in the middle of a scene in an ep...that really got to me)....and not only that...they played their logo every 5 mins in one of the upper corners...but whatever...i'm still able to watch the eps so i'm happy ^_^
iluid - why you gettin so defensive...the poor person just wanted to vent...it's not like she's saying they all suck and that she deserves better... |
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2004-04-13, 19:51
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Link #7 | |
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tsubasa o sagashite
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-04-13, 19:53
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Link #8 | |
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Lord Sesshoumaru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: "Post a Photo of Yourself!" Thread
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zalas - i normally would see it as simply recommending but the bolded part just seemed a bit harsh for a simple recommendation
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2004-04-13, 19:56
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Link #9 |
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Translator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: New York
Age: 39
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I'm going to start this post by referring to a generalization focusing down to the fansub groups I work for.
First let me say, in my entire times with digisubs, besides maybe 2 or 3 groups, I have never seen any anime fansubbed without some sort of design or logo splattered over the opening. Some obviously look nicer than others. (i.e: Keep/ANBU's Full Metal Alchemist logo opening showing the group information when the logo comes on is done very nicely), while someone like Shoujo's Mermaid Melody logo is done very plainly with only one colors slightly curved in places to match as best it can. Not every group has Adobe AfterEffects (a fairly commonly and illegally used program by fansubbers to provide you with their nice-looking logos) Furthermore, subs readable is a biggy, yes. However, I have yet to find ANY SUB out there that I've had a hard time to read, with the exception of We Suck's incredibly small font. Besides that, I've been able to read every single subtitle I've seen perfectly with no loss of vision or loss of meaning/reading as I read them. [digress] I happen to find Shoujo's Mermaid Melody main fonts very readable and very nice fitting for the series. Because you're used to another groups (Lunars more than likely), doesn't mean you should go out on an all out war against another group simply because it's different. Furthermore, Shoujo's logo for Pretty Cure was actually done quite well, and again, the font is easily readable with no problem whatsoever. There is nothing wrong with the karaoke fonts with reading or any of that aspect and if you are having problems, I highly suggest you go get your eyes checked. [/digress] Very rarely will anything overly obtrusive and destructive will ruin an opening or ending sequence for anyone. Most karaoke is done fine enough so that it's ignorable to watch the main opening. Most credits of fansubbers put within the opening again, are also highly unintrusive, because 99% of groups make them blend in with the Japanese making a very nice contrast. [digress] Shoujo does not fail in this aspect [/digress] Your point was made in general, but your basis behind it was in fault. And as a small extra edit, typesetting has nothing to do with translation quality. All fansubs die down to in the end is translation, so as long as that's decent at the lowest, you're good. |
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2004-04-13, 19:59
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Link #10 | |
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Afflicted by the vanities
Fansubber
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fish-shape Paumanok
Age: 36
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2004-04-13, 20:11
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Link #11 |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Hmm, ok, so I was a bit definsive. sapphire's original post is rather hostile imo though, so I can't say I'm entirely sorry. If you've seen Shoujo's mmppp you'd know that they don't have huge flashing credits or anything, in fact the fansub credits are in a smaller font than the japanese credits and don't really cover up much of anything. Also the biggest part of their logo is the tl of the title, the group name is off to the side in a smaller font. And, iirc, their karaoke doesn't do any l33t tricks either.
I just think it's in poor taste to bash a group by name when they haven't done anything absurdly wrong. Also, if having a creditless op is really that important, then R2 dvds really are the way to go, since many of them include op/eds that don't even have the japanese credits on. |
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2004-04-13, 20:23
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Link #12 |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: England xD!
Age: 37
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iluid is right, no need to go nuts over a little Animation. If you want the Opening to be so God damned perfect then import the DVD and rip it yourself, it's not hard to do.
"I'm grateful for the fansubs but I have to rant.." Did you know that is virtually identical to one of the biggest hypocrises that there is? "I'm not racist but.." |
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2004-04-13, 20:33
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Link #13 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but what I would really like to know if Sapphire has watched the opening to either one of our anime? You complain that we are putting subs into intrusive places. Just to make sure I wasn't going crazy, I watched the ops to both series and have yet to see a credit by us that is in a place where it would bother the view. The original japanese credits are far more intrusive.
The logos are not done the way they are in order to be cute or show how great we are with software. They are done to present the title. No one wants to see a title for a series presented in an arial font in yellow. If you do, I would say you are in the minority. The logos are done the way they are so that they don't become something so intrudingly different in the picture that all you can stare at is the logo. We do not do anything that is flashy or overdone in our opening karoke for Pitch, and there is no karaoke for Pretty cure. If you prefer to have your anime without our subs in the opening, you have several options. You can sub the eps yourself (or make a group to sub them), go get another group's subbed eps (although you are likely to end up with the same issues no matter what group you go to), you can buy the R2 DVDs as suggested here or if you are a little bit video savvy, you can choose to replace the ops with new ones you cut out of raw eps. Your only other real choice is not to bother with anime at all. |
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2004-04-13, 20:36
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Link #14 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Production: a literary or artistic work (2) : a work presented on the stage or screen or over the air c : something exaggerated out of proportion to its importance I don't see how a fansub can be considered a production in its terms of definition... But that's my opinion and 2 cents. |
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2004-04-13, 21:08
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Link #15 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Here comes all the legal terms. I am trying my best in Government and Law class and actually I am doing really well.
Anyways Sapphire as one stated you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever seen. Please leave. No for real please do. If your not impressed with the logos the credits just forget about downloading the anime. I am pretty sure people in Japan dont mind. Cause if the series is popular they might actually make a load more money for getting it licensed. So why bother to rant on something so silly and waste your time on a forum. We are doing the Japanese a favor arent we? Sapphire I want you to become a fansubber for a week. I wanna see what you do with the file and I wanna see if you follow your own theory of credits and logos. I want to see if you contradict yourself. |
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2004-04-13, 21:12
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Link #16 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Above
Age: 44
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 You should write something for our team policie in English, since for all the reason you have (and even a few more) we share scripts and raws ^^ -no "me! me! me!" (or other kind of) logo -no fixed font -editable sub-title ... |
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2004-04-13, 21:53
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Link #17 | ||
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I can understand how something like that irritates you. But, what other alternatives is there? The default responses, as you probably are aware of by now, are all options that you won't like. The most obviousy response you'd get is, "go watch another fansub". In a way, it seems as if this option won't satisfy you since by your rant, you've already seen Lunar's fansub. Another option lies in you grabbing the raws/DVDs, and watch the unedited opening and ending sequences. And, I'm willing to bet that you don't know enough japanese to go get the raws, indicated by you watching Lunar's and Shoujo's MMPPP fansubs. I'm also willing to bet that you don't have the money to get the R2 DVDs, an understandable position. In Shoujo's defense, their opening and ending karaoke is considerably tame. That's all it is, karaoke. No jumping stuff, no flashing, no bullets, no spinning, nothing. Okay, maybe the font could use a little bit of work, but it is readable isn't it? And maybe there's a fade or two to match the kanji. It's even timed according to the kanji that was in the raw (if you didn't already know, kids shows love putting in the kanji for people to read). Maybe you were making a general statment, I dunno. But singling out Shoujo hardly is fair since their 'effects' as you call it are far less in severity or content than other groups' opening and ending sequences, for example, Seichi, A-E, A-One, AJ, AF-F, Keep, Lunar, and even Triad to name a very non-comprehensive list. Indeed, maybe some consideration should be made when it comes to the placement of credits, choices of font and coor, but hey, it's give or take. Some tolerance could also and maybe should be excersied here too. You should keep in mind that Shoujo is a relatively 'new' group. MMPPP was more or less their first fansub project and they ARE keeping some amount of consistency across episodes, which is important in certain respects. They may consider changing their karaoke scheme when a new opening and endind sequence presents itself. Quote:
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2004-04-14, 01:04
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Link #19 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
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So go do it yourself. These are fansubs. If you want something done a certain way go do it yourself. I love what groups do. Some groups I don't like certain things but I don't make it a point to post a long winded and pointless rant bitching at them. You said it yourself there is more than one group,so go download the other groups. It's people like you that make fansubbing not fun. And who cares if you are a girl? Why point that out. |
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2004-04-14, 01:08
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Link #20 |
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Famous Dead Pirate
Join Date: Mar 2004
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I for one am totally in love with karaoke and credit effects. I look forward to watching them in front of every episodes (and sometimes after the episode is finished too!). I am totally mesmerized by the pretty shiny stuff that pops up, the timed japanese that fades in and out, the lyrics as they pop in and out in a timely fashion, and most of all, I love it when a group tries to get the title in the same fashion as the original title of the anime. Sometimes I can't tell what's original and what's not! And you know what? I LOVE IT!
I usually download raws of the OP/ED just in case I want to watch it undisturbed, though. Once again, a big thank you to all of you who put time and effort (plus creativity) into producing these wonderful OP/ED sequences. 
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