Kanon 2006 (Generic Discussion)

[Richard 23]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Part of that is probably true that it is hype-backlash, and part of it isn't. There is a large segment of people who hate Kanon. (I am one, I am only watching it for Neo-Kyon and watching this thread for other random things.)

Wow, get a life. Life is too short for watching crap you already know you don't like. Do you watch adverts on purpose too? And what "random things?" Oh, never mind.

Originally Posted by bayoab

(The problem is most viewers have an excess amount of time and therefore can follow 10-15 shows even if they are crap.)

Who are you talking about, here? ;-)

I don't have time to watch paint dry. I don't have time to watch much of anything at all. If I already knew the Kanon story and knew I hated it I wouldn't watch it soley for Haruhi references or Neo-Kyon. I mean, really, how sad is that?

Sorry to be sucked into this off topic sub topic. I guess I'm only encouraging it.

[Lost]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Sorry... its just that with KyoAni and Sugito involved ... its like the unwashed masses can't get the connection out of their heads.... and then of course to answer them you have to refer to both so it never stops

Lol, its those "unwashed masses" I was referring to. Even I mentioned both shows, twice, in my post. Still, I dont get them. Insisting on the connection may well ruin this show for them. [/rant]

[Skane]

AnimeNewsNetwork is conducting a poll based on their Fall-2006 preview. Viewers are asked to vote for their most anticipated Fall-2006 series. I voted for Kanon, because that was what was on my mind ever since KyoAni released the preview waaaay back in March.

What will you vote for?

Cheers.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Skane

AnimeNewsNetwork is conducting a poll based on their Fall-2006 preview. Viewers are asked to vote for their most anticipated Fall-2006 series. I voted for Kanon, because that was what was on my mind ever since KyoAni released the preview waaaay back in March.

What will you vote for?

Cheers.

The very well done but nasty and unpleasant show Death Note seems to be sweeping that poll (43%+). I guess I've had enough nasty and unpleasant

I was most anticipating Kanon and Negima!? ... and have been pleasantly surprised by Tokimeki and a couple of others.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Skane

AnimeNewsNetwork is conducting a poll based on their Fall-2006 preview. Viewers are asked to vote for their most anticipated Fall-2006 series. I voted for Kanon, because that was what was on my mind ever since KyoAni released the preview waaaay back in March.

What will you vote for?

Cheers.

I voted for Kanon. They won't allow you to vote for more than 1 title.

And bayoab, ANN forum is not Kanon-friendly imo. Every time Kanon is in a thread that I've been involved in it's an uphill battle defending it. That review was going against the "Kanon hype" prob to generate discussion in that type of a setting imo.

It's still number 2 in the polls, despite the negative review. Death Note overshadows everything apparently.

[Zanaikin]

hello, been lurking here for a while and hesitant to post due to all the flaming going on.

although I'd like to make a comment on that issue:
for people who has the time to watch shows even though they hate it, then come out just to bash it and rebuke the statements of kanon-loving fanboys (whether it be in the spirit of Haruhism or not):
-seriously, you got too much time on your hands, get a life.
-no watching a show for neo-kyon is not an adequate enough reason if you hate the show

and for ANN, I don't remember seeing that site rating any bishoujo anime as good, so I don't see why people would care what they say about kanon. So this genre just isn't the thing for those over at ANN, not that surprising.

I was one of the people who enjoyed Kanon '02, even though I realize how much of the story's potential they cut out. However it's because of '02 version that sparked my attention that I've been waiting for this '06 remake to get a deeper insight into the kanon chars/plot (I'm still far from meeting the Japanese language prerequistes for playing Kanon the game). So far I must say KyoAni has done a wonderful job at building up the details, a much more preferable choice for any drama-genre than to rush straight into the main events. For those bashing that kanon would take too long to 'become good' or get 'worth watching': it's not KyoAni's fault that most people nowadays have short attention spans and desire quick solutions to their boredom, any brilliantly executed story has to be built up from the ground... slowly (as long as it's not painstaking slow, which won't happen with only 24eps).

I have my faith in KyoAni that they will not disappoint all the kanon fans and produce a piece that people would be proud to claim as a true (or close enough) representation of the game (in contract to all the other crappy Eroge-to-anime series out there).

[DanielSong39]

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying a bit, but in general you need to do one of two things for a story to progress - you either need to develop the characters or advance the plot. If you're doing neither, you're most likely wasting time.

Setting the proper mood and atmosphere is also crucial, but it's not something that can stand on its own. It needs to be connected to the characters or the plot in some fashion for it to be truly meaningful.

After 4 episodes, Kanon has plenty of room for improvement in all these areas - and while there are 20 more episodes to fill the gap, it's getting to the point where it will need a Da Capo-like comeback for it to emerge as a truly memorable work. Most of us have faith that it will eventually get there... but it's simply not there yet.

[New/Old]

Heh heh. From my stand point, I've already seen lots of things pointing out to characters. Of course, my standpoint is my standpoint which is parallel to my opinion is only my humble opinion.

[Vexx]

Hmmm, sometimes the art is in the atmosphere and mood-setting itself. "Must advance plot every second" is a syndrome of what I'll call "american" filmmaking. As far as development of characters... its the little "slice of life" stuff that enhances character reality... daily chores, wheedling friends, da funny, da boring.
One of the best episodes of Ichigo Masimaru involved a hot summer day with the characters just laying around roasting .... "not much happened" except you learned a lot about the characters.

[DanielSong39]

So we seem to agree; atmosphere and mood-setting can be a very useful way of getting more insight into the characters and giving them added dimension.

Asatte no Houkou is an example of a show that does this often - and well. Kanon 2006 - not as much. But at least they have 20 more episodes to step it up a notch.

[Vexx]

Aye.. the grief will be if the writers think they have so much elbow room with all those episodes that they boggart the time budget.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

But at least they have 22 more episodes to step it up a notch.

Only because it's one of those little things that grates at my latent obsessive-compulsive side (it runs in the family...), I want to note that it's 24 episodes, not 26. Not that it makes much of any difference whatsoever, but... you know, an FYI. When the time comes, I just don't want people to be like "why'd the cut the last two episodes out?!" or "I thought it was 26 episodes!" or something. And now back to your regularly-scheduled discussion.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

And please stop with the Neo-Kyon thing, as stressed many times over and over, Yuuichi's character predates Kyon by many years and it was Key which made these types of smartass characters popular in the genre, you're only demonstrating the very same naivity as the other people using this. It's like the people claiming all mecha shows are rip-offs of EVA, it doesn't make you look smart nor witty but rather it only makes you look uninformed.

Last time I checked, Haruhi is not a member of "the genre" and is a whole separate genre. Yuuichi might be the first smart ass in harem games/dating sims but he wasn't the first smart ass male protagonist. You know, it would help the whole "its not neo-haruhi" if they weren't animating everyone to look exactly the same. (I'm very aware that they don't look the same in the game.) Kaori looks exactly like haruhi with a new hair style in certain scenes. Yuuichi frequenly looks, sounds and has the exact same mannerisms as Kyon in the voice. If the voice actor wasn't putting the exact same mannerisms in, it might be a different story. He isn't known for Yuuichi, he is known for Kyon and it's already been proven by some fans that you can swap any lines between many of his shows and its the same. Also, I've seen samples the game script. At many of the "references", they are altering lines and its clearly more toward the way Kyon spoke.

Also, its funny.. according to the source of all truthiness.. he isn't even supposed to be a smartass. I added emphasis because I found that part laughable and wonder where someone got that from:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Yu-ichi Aizawa
The main protagonist of Kanon is Yu-ichi Aizawa. Yu-ichi is friendly and outgoing, though as nice as he is, he needs to learn the sensitivity of a woman. He once lived in the town in which the story takes place, but all his memories of that time are gone, slowly coming back to him as he interacts with the people he met in the past.

Originally Posted by orion

It's still number 2 in the polls, despite the negative review. Death Note overshadows everything apparently.

Barely holding onto that #2 spot. But we can spin it the other way too: Even if its #2, with 8.6% of the vote, that means that 91.4% of people were anticipating something else more.

[orion]

Yeah, Death Note. Doubtful anything could compete with that thing coming out. That's like having a poll of favorite directors there, including Miyazaki and expecting someone else to win.

[Skane]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying a bit, but in general you need to do one of two things for a story to progress - you either need to develop the characters or advance the plot. If you're doing neither, you're most likely wasting time.

Setting the proper mood and atmosphere is also crucial, but it's not something that can stand on its own. It needs to be connected to the characters or the plot in some fashion for it to be truly meaningful.

After 4 episodes, Kanon has plenty of room for improvement in all these areas - and while there are 20 more episodes to fill the gap, it's getting to the point where it will need a Da Capo-like comeback for it to emerge as a truly memorable work. Most of us have faith that it will eventually get there... but it's simply not there yet.

The threads are being woven already, but if you are new to Kanon, some of them will not be so immediately apparent. I say some, because some of the foreshadowing has been pretty heavy-handed( which was to my surprise, but logical I suppose, since they need an immediate hook for those who know nothing of the background).

Later on, when you learn more about the story, you will likely have many "Oh" moments rewatching the earlier episodes.

Cheers.

[Richard 23]

Originally Posted by Zanaikin

hello, been lurking here for a while and hesitant to post due to all the flaming going on.

although I'd like to make a comment on that issue:
for people who has the time to watch shows even though they hate it, then come out just to bash it and rebuke the statements of kanon-loving fanboys (whether it be in the spirit of Haruhism or not):
-seriously, you got too much time on your hands, get a life.
-no watching a show for neo-kyon is not an adequate enough reason if you hate the show

You are 100% right, 0% wrong. I agree with you completely. It's a big world, there's lots of things to do, and most of them don't involve whining or being a killjoy. Frankly doing those things says more about the person doing them than they do about the work in question.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Barely holding onto that #2 spot. But we can spin it the other way too: Even if its #2, with 8.6% of the vote, that means that 91.4% of people were anticipating something else more.

The ratings also say that Survival/Idol/DrPhil is the best thing on television.
Unlike those examples, though, Death Note looks pretty well made and a lot of people were anticipating it but it just isn't my cup of tea. It reminds me of yet another Twilight Zone episode I remember (much like SHnY reminded me of a couple of Zone episodes).
I'd rather watch Kanon than Death Note, so it goes.

[orion]

And only 42.3% was for Death Note. Apparently, those other titles that got a bad 1st episode review had a following there also.

They included Le Chevalier d'Eon which was technically a Summer 2006 title but did not include Flag or any other higher profile summer title. They also did not wait until all of the Fall 2006 titles had premiered so Tokyo Tribes 2 was not in the survey either. So, in reality that poll is of selected titles (i.e, only the titles that they reviewed) and does not reflect all the premieres and should be taken with a grain of salt imo.

[New/Old]

And of course, it's a poll. Now, the thing with polls is that they're quite tricky to pull off correctly and efficiently. Sampling, methods, randomization. All these things have to thought out to create an accurate, excellent poll. The problem with some of the polls of today is that they're self choice. Only those who see the poll and deem it important to actually participate will be represented. This is a problem as the sampling then becomes flawed. While it is the easiest method, it is not the best. Polls are a pretty tricky...

Of course, I will admit that the Visual Novel fanbase isn't as big or large as some other fanbases. So the poll is no biggie for me. I love what I love. Kanon is one those things I love.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Skane

AnimeNewsNetwork is conducting a poll based on their Fall-2006 preview. Viewers are asked to vote for their most anticipated Fall-2006 series. I voted for Kanon, because that was what was on my mind ever since KyoAni released the preview waaaay back in March.

What will you vote for?

Cheers.

I voted for Kanon. I've been anticipating this re-make ever since word first leaked about it being done(especially by KyoAni).

My two favorite shows of the season so far, are Kanon and Asatte no Houkou. Frankly, as good as Death Note is, the darker stuff has not been my favorite genre. I wait a couple weeks then watch a couple episodes at once. Unlike Kanon where I download RAWS to watch, then get the subs(and keep both in my collection )