2012-10-27, 04:10 | Link #422 |
Sleepy Lurker
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nun'yabiznehz
Age: 38
|
It's more about their superstition-fueled fear of the unknown and the inexplicable, I think. You've got some massive hulk made of heavy metal that trundles across the landscape that can match the speed of a warhorse (some MBTs can drive as fast as a horse, even off-road - especially the lighter ones and not the heavier models like the M1A2 Abrams), yet you can't see what makes it move. It could be alive and sentient, but you can't make out any eyes, legs or anything that belies its biological nature. Also, it makes some sort of godawful noise whenever it accelerates or tries to clear a slope - is it a living being's roar? The mystery continues. And here comes the brain's message: fatal error; does not compute; attempting to reboot.
Furthermore, those big thingies are apparently made of metal -thus, armor- so it's not something you can stop with mere arrows, lances and blades. Which means that if they charge at their legions, they can plow right through an entire phalanx with relative impunity (barring the presence of ballistas and other ranged war engines to weather the massive onslaught). And...the chapter shows that it's not just four-five MBTs that are performing training maneuvers - it's an entire group of them. And Piņa just witnessed what twenty or more AH-1 Cobras and UH-1 Hueys could do to a rogue army, so it'd be logical for her to assume that these crawling metal beasts could be as lethal as their flying counterparts, if not even more. She hasn't seen them in action yet, but it'd be safe for her to assume that they took part in the hostilities that ended with 100,000 imperial corpses littering the surroundings of Alnus Hill. Final reaction: oh crap, that doesn't look good.
__________________
|
2012-10-27, 05:24 | Link #423 | |
Superbad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Armacham Replica Training center
|
Quote:
pretty sure its that, ren. if anachronism dictates, even if you're wearing the hauberk during the crusades yet carry an assault rifle or LMG/SAW, they'll either see you as a magic user that creates thin fireballs coming out from a weird looking crossbow or the "powah of deeeemons!" shit the church utterly loathes. I wonder how they're gonna react when those MBTs (the Japanese T90(?) is fast, right?) is about to charge right into a line while arrows are simply bouncing off it, the mighty ballista (seriously, how can one GIANT bolt do shit? explain plx) bolts simply ineffective and stone flingers only dealing possible damage to the freakin NV sensors. if their medieval tech is what I think it is, then the similar yet outmatched counterpart would be the heavy chariot, war elephant and an improvised firebase where a siege weapon, lets say a ballista, is mounted on a platform with wheels. I doubt their AP arrows could do much against the modern kevlar. they'll believe flashbangs are blinding magic, nades as a "small" form of explosion magic, and the radio as a teleportation tool.
__________________
Last edited by ZeKeR; 2012-10-27 at 05:46. |
|
2012-10-27, 06:24 | Link #424 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
|
Hope we see a translation to 15 soon. It seems like the wizard girl was explaining the mechanics of the modern weapons to the imperials. Though they seem incredibly impressed with their military technology, they seem rather flabbergasted by dust.
Quote:
Not sure about the JSDF tanks, but an Abrams tank carries about 40+ 120mm rounds, 900 rounds for the .50 machine guns, and 8000 rounds of 7.62mm. So a tank platoon has MORE than enough ammunition to destroy an army, especially when you consider that the Co-axle machine gun on a modern tank is stupidly accurate, considering it's braced to a 60 ton vehicle, is mechanically aimed, and has laser range finding. There's a guy on another forum I go to that's an ex Army tanker, and he commented that a modern MBT tank would be the perfect tool for killing a zombie horde. Since a Coaxle would be accurate and stable enough to just sweep it across the line of heads, and he'd have thousands of rounds of 7.62mm from which to use. Guys with machine guns, in light vehicles are bad enough, but they're not existentially terrifying for the imperials. Since they could at least conceive of maybe getting lucky and closing in with the JSDF, and getting some lucky hits in. Helicopters and Tanks are terrifying, in that there's nothing a medieval army has in their arsenal that can combat them. Of course once Imperial realizes just how far out, and how accurately a modern force can call in a fire mission of 155mm howitzers, I think she's gonna change her mind about the most OP asset they have.
__________________
Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2012-10-27 at 06:43. |
|
2012-10-27, 06:36 | Link #425 | |||
Sleepy Lurker
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nun'yabiznehz
Age: 38
|
Quote:
And, I'm not sure if the novels said anything about the Empire building any super weapons, but in our own world, there are real-life instances of oversized ranged weapons capable of shooting 200lbs+ projectiles, built with the express purpose of inspiring fear within the enemy camp. Quote:
Furthermore, a stone weighing several kilos and falling from above might not penetrate RHA armor, but it could dent it - and the concussion could cause internal damage (even though tanks are designed to prevent that) and minor spalling. I do not believe a projectile shot from a trebuchet or mangonel (the Empire seems to be mixture of Middle Ages/Roman Empire, so I'm on the outs as to which one would be more pertinent) can puncture an MBT's armor, but it could cause some degree of damage, provided the projectile is heavy enough and one of the men manning the engine is lucky enough to score a hit. Stone flingers are actually much more efficient against massed infantry, but the JSDF would have their troops safely ensconced within APCs while on the move rather than let them do a WWI-style infantry charge. Quote:
That's one of the reason why people started R&D'ing stuff like Dragon Skin, which could be both stabproof and bulletproof (note: a more accurate term would "bullet-resistant", not "bulletproof"). Besides...you forget that not all of the human body is protected by Kevlar and metal plates. Throat, face, arms, thighs, legs, feet - all of that is unprotected with most standard-issue armor and if you are unlucky enough, an arrow can pierce an artery and have you bleed to death - that is, if you don't die from shock already (there is a reason why some wildlife hunters prefer compound bows to rifles - arrows can sometimes be more efficient).
__________________
|
|||
2012-10-27, 06:50 | Link #426 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
|
Quote:
Remember. Modern vehicle crew have to be trained to spot infantry with RPG crews trying to ambush them at these ranges. Spotting a ballista or a Trebuchet would be even easier. Quote:
Of course the power of infantry with auto rifles versus bowmen isn't the armor of the infantry. It's their increased firepower and accuracy. Riflemen just have so much more firepower than archers...who aren't going to stand out in the open as they're mowed down like they're robots. The inclination of the archers is gonna be to duck their heads. In 20-30 seconds, the only archers who are still alive will be the most cowardly( prudent?) ones that took cover.
__________________
|
||
2012-10-27, 07:07 | Link #427 |
Superbad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Armacham Replica Training center
|
@Roger: I believe there's a matter, although its futile against most, would be to turn the ballista into AA (if there's a dragon, there's a high chance that one of the defenses will include a massive ballista or crossbow on a swivel that nods and turns sideways), use catapults/trebuchets/mangonels that fling big nets instead of the normal rock or incendiary projectile or simply use the arrow hails to try and force the helo to land. a magnificent bastard could fire a well placed hit on the main rotors or the tail rotors for the lulz.
@Renegade: and here I thought the turret was similarly armored to its chassis. the spalling you mentioned could destroy the radio if it was located in the turret and the rocks COULD dent the main gun if the one who's behind the engine is also a magnificent bastard. I did remember the Greeks trolling with Greek Fire during that war I forgot that was effective as shit against boats and bunched up infantry. Romans would use it in forested areas where the clay jar breaking COULD up the butthurt. I'm not sure what would happen if an incendiary projectile hitting the MBT would do to it and crew. in c15 I'm pretty sure that that shrewd asshole is talking to them about the maltreatment that knight commander did to Itami and the whole "we'll report the beating of Itami as a sign of aggression" shit. at least Itami's a humanitarian, and he's drawing the affection of the ladies. EDIT: well, they can fruitlessly make impromptu emplacements like a dirt wall that has a narrow opening for the ballista bolt to go through or spider holes for the archers since an average archer could only fire 12 per minute while an assault rifle can pretty much go seven-fold at what the archer could deal with. another is ballistics which can affect accuracy. bullets spin but arrows do not. also, its time they used their brains and dig giant holes deep enough to swallow an MBT, but NV equipped devices will prevent them from doing just that.
__________________
|
2012-10-27, 07:34 | Link #428 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
|
Quote:
Even if a Helicopter was flying at lower altitudes (it can easily fly above the range that you'd be able to hit it even if you had rifles) at a sluggish speed...you'd still need a mental super computer to calculate the velocity of the helicopter, and the arch of the net flying through the air to catch it. You'd need a pretty big hole to do that...and at best, you're only going to temporarily inconcinience one tank. It's buddies are likely to hold up and cover it until it can get dug out, probably call in infantry support to.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-27, 07:46 | Link #429 | |
Superbad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Armacham Replica Training center
|
Quote:
the only thing left is to bog infantry down with terrain (helos are OP so lets let them fight even ground) and traps instead of attacking, but hey, the ruler's hubris is rubbing in his generals and they don't know the full effect of what they're messing with until the 155's and 105's are in position to bombard them out of the blue, MBT's rolling towards their capital city, UH-1's loaded with squads and Cobras shattering the peaceful skies and light vehicles, AVF's and IFV's come rolling on the plain. as my friend who plays RTS games (he absolutely HATES sneaky tactics which I am fond of doing) said once: "ambushes are for pussies."
__________________
|
|
2012-10-27, 07:59 | Link #430 | |
Basileus Basileōn
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-10-27, 08:17 | Link #431 | |
Superbad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Armacham Replica Training center
|
Quote:
if I remember correctly, the heavy chariot was duly effective up close if the side wheels had either blades or long spikes, coupled with the additional riders, most probably archers or crossbowmen, make it something. bad thing is that the people in the chariot are exposed as hell and all it needs is a well placed shot to take out the reins handler. the other lulz-concept I think was unlikely is a full carriage with small firing ports for crossbows. accuracy just went down considerably but it gives defense, albeit its too ridiculous.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-27, 08:33 | Link #432 | |||||||
Sleepy Lurker
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nun'yabiznehz
Age: 38
|
Quote:
But then there are two prerequisites for this scenario:
Quote:
Assuming of course that by then the JSDF commanders haven't called in air support or an artillery barrage already. And this scenario would imply the Empire already figured out that the rifles are magic implements, but devices that propel small projectiles forward, like a souped-up bow. At this moment, they haven't - they still think it's magic, so maybe a magic ward could provide some protection, if such things do exist? Quote:
Or the Empire could attempt to use small dragons to harass the choppers. Quote:
Quote:
And, yes, I know there are issues with adjusting the aim of war engines when you're up against fast-moving vehicles. But trebuchets and mangonels were designed to fight against massed infantry and take down walls, not MBTs. Still, they're the most potent threat on a battlefield, since they're the only things that can, in theory, damage a heavily armored tank. Quote:
But otherwise, if we're talking about rolling through a burning meadow, there's no problem unless you decide to idle for too long (and the sensors start to melt, the machine guns on top of the turrets start to misfire on their own because the bullets are overheating, etc). The tanks have their own air filters (some models like the Abrams do have NBC protection straight out of the box) and they can bug the hell outta there in no time, unless the ground's muddy and prevents the vehicle from making a swift exit. Quote:
In WWI, both sides dug trenches to prevent tanks from crossing over, but the Brits (who fielded the first tanks on the battlefield) solved the problem by equipping their vehicles with fascines, bundles of wood that could be dropped inside the trenches to bridge the gap (which is faster than requesting a military bulldozer to come forth and refill the trench). In WWII, they used Czech hedgehogs to impede tank movement, but those could be blown up or removed by military engineers. Both devices (trenches, hedgehogs) could be the Empire's best shot at making tank movement much more difficult, but they are not infallible. They can only stall, not stop. If anything, they could be good as immobilizing the tanks long enough for the catapults/trebuchets/mangonels/ballistas (preferably hidden behind a hill, away from JSDF sight) to start shooting their deadly payload on virtually sitting ducks.
__________________
Last edited by Renegade334; 2012-10-27 at 08:50. |
|||||||
2012-10-27, 09:12 | Link #433 |
Basileus Basileōn
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
You know what? The Empire's best chance is to pay whatever the Japanese asks them, preferably in cash, and then try and learn as much from the Japanese about modern technology and westernize(I guess I played too much EU3). The more they fight, the more the Japanese public would demand in the event of victory.
|
2012-10-27, 14:49 | Link #434 | |
So....its you.....
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: take a guess?
|
Quote:
and as to the engine on a tank getting caught on fire. well the M1 abrams are gas turbines powered so they are far more likely to catch fire from the simplest things, But just about every other modern MBT in the world is diesel powered and diesel doesn't nearly catches on fire as easily or as catastrophically as gas do. even if the tank engine or even the inside of the crew compartment do catch on fire the fire itself would be extinguished in less than a second if the vehicle have a working AFES (Automatic Fire extinguishing system) installed. We have made some pretty neat advances and improvement to old fire fighting gear installed in vehicles in the last decade and modern AFES system kills the fire in your fighting vehicle before the crew even knows there is a fire most of the time. though you will known it soon though because how most AFES system works is by taking away the oxygen in the immediate areas inside the tank and around it and thus no fire could sustain or start cause there is no air to burn. Though the crew would not be able to breath for a few seconds and your engine will not start because there is no oxygen to breath and burn but its better than being flash burned alive trapped in the vehicle. I know it works as advertised because i was in a tank when we caught fire in the engine during an attack and it most likely saved my life. |
|
2012-10-27, 19:45 | Link #435 | |
Superbad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Armacham Replica Training center
|
Quote:
you can probably troll the FLIR with setting fires, but this will warrant as scorched earth.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-27, 20:29 | Link #436 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
|
I think what happened was that Lelei mentioned to Pina that the JSDF's weapons aren't magical in nature, but rather technological tools. That got her thinking about trying to get hold of one, but Lelei said it was pointless - she explained what the "small" in "small arms" meant, and that the tanks were examples of larger armament.
|
2012-10-28, 04:13 | Link #437 | |||
Sleepy Lurker
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nun'yabiznehz
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Quote:
The Japanese Type 74 (shown in ch.15) prototype did have an autoloader, but it proved to be too complicated and pricey and was eventually removed from the mass production version. The later Type 90 and Type 10, OTOH, are equipped with autoloaders. Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2012-10-28, 10:51 | Link #438 |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
|
I think the question that's worth asking with regards to tank, if if a siege crossbow has remotely enough kinetic energy or momentum to bust up an Abrams.
I mean, the Rheinmetall 120mm can shot a 10 pound depleted Uranium dart sabot at over a kilometer and a half per second (It has a kinetic energy of 5.7 megajules). And Modern tank armor is designed to defend against things like this. You're not gonna have luck with medieval siege weapons, nor are you going to have the accuracy to make aimed shots to try to muck up delicate things on the vehicle. And really. Even if the Imperials managed to get their hands on anti tank guns, they'd still be at a significant disadvantage even on the defense. Simply because cannons and siege weapons are static. A formation of tanks can outmanuever them, or launch thrusts against the spread out guns trying to defend a wide area.
__________________
|
2012-10-28, 20:03 | Link #439 | |
Superbad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Armacham Replica Training center
|
Quote:
but if that were to happen, the projectile probably wont last to reach its intended target, let alone pierce it if it was that fast. unless their medieval counterpart of the 155 is a giant catapult, trebuchet or mangonel like what Longshanks did for fear and lulz, I guess they COULD possibly preset the ranges but at most its gonna be harassing the enemy. i did remember this was usually done by the rebels at convoys by indiscriminately bombarding them with mortars as they moved.
__________________
|
|
Tags |
fantasy, harem, military science fiction |
Thread Tools | |
|
|