Japanese words that should be in English dictionaries

[Tempester]

There are some Japanese (or Japanese influenced/borrowed) words that are just used so often by English-speaking people today that they should be added to the major large dictionaries in the world.

Here are some I believe should make the cut:

Hikikomori. A very specific term that has no English counterpart and isn't even country-specific. In fact, adding this to major dictionaries can be very beneficial.

Certain honorifics that are used by anime fans constantly and left unchanged in official subs/dubs (e.g. Lucky Star). These may include: -chan, -kun, nii-chan/nee-chan, -dono, etc.

Japanese foods untranslated in menus of Japanese restaurants in foreign countries: unagi, taiyaki, etc.

Loli and shota (possibly only referring to unreal/animated children), along with the terms lolicon and shotacon.

Any other ideas?

[Kusa-San]

You're serious here O_o You know, it's not because some people use this that it's common. It's clear that japanesse word will not be in English dictionarie. Loli, Chan etc...are just used by a small number of person in the world. The majority doesn't use them.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Tempester

Loli and shota (possibly only referring to unreal/animated children), along with the terms lolicon and shotacon.

Any other ideas?

First off, "loli" isn't a Japanese word to begin with. It's short for lolicon, which is an abbreviation of "lolita complex", which is a reference to the main character in a famous book by the russian author Nabokov.

And yes, "lolita" IS in most english dictionaries already.

Anyway, this is what urbandictionary.com is for. Let the OED decide what words are and aren't worthy of becoming "official" english words.

[Throne Invader]

I think we use loli alot nowadays.

I'm a big fan of Rozen Maiden so "desu", "kashira", and "nano" should be in the english dictionary

[Jan-Poo]

there are already a few words currently in use and that are included in the most updated dictionaries:

Tsunami, Kamikaze, Karate, Karateka, Dan, Manga, Mangaka, Sumo, Judo, Judoka, Go, Shougi, Samurai, Rounin, Dojo, Haiku, Ikebana, Shinto(ism), Zen, Sensei.

Some of them were first used and spread by minor subgroups (like martial artists in the case of karate, karateka, dan and dojo). However it is not for those subgroups to decide whether such words are worldwide known or not, because their point of view is biased to begin with.
Chances for foreign words to become integrated in english greatly enhance when they are frequently used by newspapers or by tv shows.
For example the word "hikikomori" might become popular if journalists become interested in finding the japanese-craze hikikomori that live in their local regions (but i can live without that...).

th suffix "-san" became somewhat popular after the movie "The Karate Kid", now i think it is well known that it's the japanese way to say "mister", but that still fall under the well known words used by strangers, like "arigatou" or the french "merci". I doubt that things will be different with "kun" "chan" and such, simply because english speakers will not use them themselves.

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Tempester

There are some Japanese (or Japanese influenced/borrowed) words that are just used so often by English-speaking people today that they should be added to the major large dictionaries in the world.

Here are some I believe should make the cut:

Hikikomori. A very specific term that has no English counterpart and isn't even country-specific. In fact, adding this to major dictionaries can be very beneficial.

Certain honorifics that are used by anime fans constantly and left unchanged in official subs/dubs (e.g. Lucky Star). These may include: -chan, -kun, nii-chan/nee-chan, -dono, etc.

Japanese foods untranslated in menus of Japanese restaurants in foreign countries: unagi, taiyaki, etc.

Loli and shota (possibly only referring to unreal/animated children), along with the terms lolicon and shotacon.

Any other ideas?

I agree with "hikikomori", but I think you're barking up the wrong tree for the rest; if you want things that go untranslated in fansubs to be put into English dictionaries, you might as well put an entire Japanese dictionary in there. (Seriously. I speak fluent Japanese, but the amount of untranslated stuff in the average fansub is completely baffling. Isn't the whole point of doing subtitles so that people who don't understand the original language can enjoy it in their own?)

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

I agree with "hikikomori", but I think you're barking up the wrong tree for the rest; if you want things that go untranslated in fansubs to be put into English dictionaries, you might as well put an entire Japanese dictionary in there. (Seriously. I speak fluent Japanese, but the amount of untranslated stuff in the average fansub is completely baffling. Isn't the whole point of doing subtitles so that people who don't understand the original language can enjoy it in their own?)

You dare try to open the age old pandora's box of anime fans who get involved into fansubbing adhering to the Japanese language as if it's the bible, thus superior than their own native language?

I'd go with hikikomori too, i tried to sum it as a simple noun in english but there is no cultural equivalent per se, so yeah, it'd need a definition.
As for Japanese suffixes... no.
Just no.

They're no diff from Mr, Miss, Ms, Madam, Dame, Lord, Sir and many others. I don't see Italian, Spanish or German titles end up in the english dictionary (french... maybe, i've not checked), so why would Japanese?

At least for the Oxford dictionary, you'll be having a good time trying to state your case for that, they'd prob not even bat an eyelash.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

You're serious here O_o You know, it's not because some people use this that it's common. It's clear that japanesse word will not be in English dictionarie. Loli, Chan etc...are just used by a small number of person in the world. The majority doesn't use them.

Believe me, there are a LOT of words in the dictionary the "majority" doesn't use (:P) so that isn't a disqualifier. Words enter the english dictionary when they either replace words (which may become archaic) or if the subpopulation that uses them reaches a commonly understood definition of them (which is not the case for "loli" -- fights erupt all the time over what the word should mean). Words also enter if they describe a concept not available (import words) ... like "gestalt" or "schadenfreude"

I'd really push back against "otaku" because I just think Westerners who use the word to describe themselves have no bloody idea just how pejorative the word is in Japan... if the Japanese word becomes less like "creepy/scary" and more like "fan" or "hobbyist", I might change my mind.

And honorifics? No, just no. They are useful for indicating the current relationship between two people but english is a very egalitarian and "class neutral" language (very little in the way of gender or social status), though dialect and skill in using it communicates much the same thing.

But.... nothing stops anyone from submitting a word for consideration to the Merriam-Webster people (or their competitors)

[vedicardi]

...None of them

[ganbaru]

I would be four putting word than have no equivalent in english ( like hikikomuri) or japanese name ( name of food , of swords etc...) in the dictionary. But I think also than the others stuffs ( honorific ,loli etc...) should be keep out.
The reason; because it would be a english dictionary not a ''otaku'' dictionary.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Tempester

There are some Japanese (or Japanese influenced/borrowed) words that are just used so often by English-speaking people today that they should be added to the major large dictionaries in the world.

Here are some I believe should make the cut:

Hikikomori. A very specific term that has no English counterpart and isn't even country-specific. In fact, adding this to major dictionaries can be very beneficial.

Certain honorifics that are used by anime fans constantly and left unchanged in official subs/dubs (e.g. Lucky Star). These may include: -chan, -kun, nii-chan/nee-chan, -dono, etc.

Japanese foods untranslated in menus of Japanese restaurants in foreign countries: unagi, taiyaki, etc.

Loli and shota (possibly only referring to unreal/animated children), along with the terms lolicon and shotacon.

Any other ideas?

Hikikomroi could be simply unemployed or something similar on that line.
The honorifics shouldn't really be in the word because there is no use for them in English. The closest thing is like mister or miss.
And those food should be in it as it is only names.
Well for loli and shota that is weird and really doesn't need to be in English. And there is equivalent for lolicon, which is pedophile.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Hikikomroi could be simply unemployed or something similar on that line.

引き篭り 【ひきこもり】 (n) people who withdraw from society
無職者 【むしょくしゃ】 (n) unemployed person

Not quite.
There are many unemployed people who are more than happy to socialise with friends, go out, find jobs and engage in hobbies outside of their bedrooms.
The term literally means to 'pull into yourself' (withdraw) - an unemployed person doesn't quite fit the concept of it all.

Do be careful about the level of superficiality you include in your future posts btw.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Mystique

引き篭り 【ひきこもり】 (n) people who withdraw from society
無職者 【むしょくしゃ】 (n) unemployed person

Not quite.
There are many unemployed people who are more than happy to socialise with friends, go out, find jobs and engage in hobbies outside of their bedrooms.
The term literally means to 'pull into yourself' (withdraw) - an unemployed person doesn't quite fit the concept of it all.

Do be careful about the level of superficiality you include in your future posts btw.

True but I stand by my point that Hikikomori does have decent English counterpart hence no need to be put into English dictionary.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

True but I stand by my point that Hikikomori does have decent English counterpart hence no need to be put into English dictionary.

Shut-in would probably work there. It covers people who are withdrawn from society, as well as people who can't leave their home due to illness. It might not be as specific as hikikomori, but it does cover the same meaning.

[Mystique]

It has a english counterpart in a linguistic sense but society won't understand the concept for a word that's created for a social problem in Japan.

Police: We have another case of a missing shut-in. You need to come down to the station for a briefing.

Give that to your average anime fan (let alone english native person), who's gonna be able to reverse-cross reference that to 'hikikomori'?
Once most hear 'hikikomori' - all nuances, ideas and issues associated with the word (instant first thought = occurs in japan, extreme social problem) come rushing to mind, just the same as 'tsunami' has become.

We could simply translate it as 'tidal wave' for an english dictionary - yet the use of tsunami gives that extra indication that the wave was earthquake induced and thus has become globally reknown.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Mystique

It has a english counterpart in a linguistic sense but society won't understand the concept for a word that's created for a social problem in Japan.

Police: We have another case of a missing shut-in. You need to come down to the station for a briefing.

Give that to your average anime fan (let alone english native person), who's gonna be able to reverse-cross reference that to 'hikikomori'?
Once most hear 'hikikomori' - all nuances, ideas and issues associated with the word (instant first thought = occurs in japan, extreme social problem) come rushing to mind, just the same as 'tsunami' has become.

We could simply translate it as 'tidal wave' for an english dictionary - yet the use of tsunami gives that extra indication that the wave was earthquake induced and thus has become globally reknown.

If you want to go down that path, most words aren't a direct translation. Even simple words like hai and iie aren't used exactly the same way as their english equilivents yes and no. As for tidal wave, it fell out of use because it implies that they're caused by tides. It simply wasn't accurate. On the other hand, shut-in covers hikikomori pretty well.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'd really push back against "otaku" because I just think Westerners who use the word to describe themselves have no bloody idea just how pejorative the word is in Japan... if the Japanese word becomes less like "creepy/scary" and more like "fan" or "hobbyist", I might change my mind.

I think that nowadays in the anime fan community the word "otaku" is not used the same way it was a few years ago. Reason is anime themselves begun to show many example of otaku and for the most part they are shown as somewhat social inept and secluded. This of course changed the old idea of "otaku" in western regions. So now while the word isn't exactly as bad as it was in Japan, it's mainly used to describe an excessive fanatism. Ten years ago you could see people proudly stating they were "otaku" now you don't anymore.

At the same time i think it also changed in Japan. Initially it was a very disparaging way to describe all of those sicko who used the word "otaku" to address each other (for those who doesn't know, otaku is equivalent of "you") emulating the language used by sci-fi anime characters (Hikaru in Macross for example). Back at the time it was considered almost on par as a mental disorder or something. Now this has changed to define someone who bears an excessive fanatism mainly towards anime, games and manga. So even a person that slightly "crosses the line" might be called otaku by others. It still has a disparaging meaning, but it's closer to the western definition.

[Vexx]

The traditional meaning of "otaku" is "your home" or "your house". It can be used as a polite form of "you" (since "anato" is pretty coarse when directed *at* someone) but I suppose that like "gay" in English - its been pretty much usurped at this point.

I'd still recommend Westerners avoid the use of the term for themselves for the near future. I can see that in 5 or 10 years it'll smooth out like "nerd" and "geek" have in the West (those used to be massively derogatory and still are to some extent).

[Chronosphere EXIA]

"Kamen" should be added since it is part of the new American tokusatsu
KAMEN RIDER DRAGON KNIGHT, an indirect adaptation of the Japanese tokusatsu Kamen Rider Ryuki. It is translated as MASKED RIDER DRAGON KNIGHT.

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Chronosphere EXIA

"Kamen" should be added since it is part of the new American tokusatsu
KAMEN RIDER DRAGON KNIGHT, an indirect adaptation of the Japanese tokusatsu Kamen Rider Ryuki. It is translated as MASKED RIDER DRAGON KNIGHT.

So what's your point, exactly...?

And as a response to the posts above in general, it's why I think hikikomori might be a worthwhile addition to the English language: it describes a particular phenomenon (acute social withdrawal) that is difficult to convey succinctly. As added weight, various articles in major English-language media have profiled the issue, using the Japanese word as-is (albeit with a gloss to explain what it means).

Along the same lines, it'd probably be all right to include freeter (the chronically underemployed, working multiple part-time jobs for short stints) and maybe the initialism NEET (Not in Employment, Education, or Training—a term officially recognized by the Japanese government).

But again, I find all the fan-wankery over this or that pet term that's used in their series of choice to be just a bit silly. My personal preference is just to translate as appropriate to the situation, but I don't mind using a native term as long as its meaning is well-defined or clear in-context. It's just when you start arguing that things like "onii-chan" should be accepted into the OED and Webster's New International that it gets a tad bit ridiculous.