Madoka Magica - Movie Discussion (& Speculation) Thread

[Triple_R]

Presuming that Kazu-Kun is right, I wonder where they'll end the first recap movie, and start the second recap movie?

I can see a few possibilities:

1. After Sayaka rescues Madoka from the Episode 4 witch. If they want to end the first movie on an even remotely upbeat note, this might be the only way they can do it. However, it would probably leave too much material to cover in the 2nd movie.

2. Just before Homura intervenes in Kyouko vs. Sayaka. If they want to end on a total cliffhanger moment, this might be a good place to end the first movie.

3. The end of Episode 7. Where Sayaka breaks down and starts laughing like a maniacal villain. It would give the 1st movie a vague sense of finality, but also serve as a bit of a cliffhanger for the 2nd movie.

[Sol Falling]

The movie airing dates are only a week apart. Also, I think it is quite likely that at least episode 10's material will be expanded beyond the original airing, given the various comments SHAFT/Shinbo made about how they had to cut down Urobochi's original 45-minute screenplay and wanting to due a full length version.

One of the early setups I remember being speculated was accordingly Movie 1 being eps. 1-9, and the second covering episode 10 + the conclusion. That would leave the airing times/material to be covered in each movie to be quite unbalanced, however. That does seem to me to be the most natural splitting place in the storyline, however. Alternatively, I think the end of episode 8, at the point of total despair with Sayaka turning into a witch, might also be a good stopping point.

[Akito Kinomoto]

If the first two movies are Madoka: Death and Rebirth you can count me out. I'm all for a reiteration of the series proper though. What I'm really looking forward to is the direct sequel that is going to be the third Madoka film. I predict End of Madokaleon shenanigans. Oh yes.

[flack]

Hope the sequel shows the end of incubator. I can't stand that little piece of twisted psychological shit.

[AuraTwilight]

I'd rather not. All things considered, the Incubators aren't doing anything wrong.

[1337_haxor]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

I'd rather not. All things considered, the Incubators aren't doing anything wrong.

Agreed, just terminating them doesn't solve the problem when the universe itself is a complete monster.

It would be better off if the movie showed the reason for their fight, if somehow Madoka's new system failed and the entropy crash was something much worse than all witches combined it would give Kyubey some sort of moral closure.

The problem with the Incubators is that they are just machines, they are a ridiculously advanced species with no emotions and a purely rational utilitarian sense. They do not mess with the girls because they like it, they simply follow the rules already set in the universe to the most efficient way possible.

If you want to pick a villain then you should look at magic itself, that thing is wicked, it is the force that makes the girls wish come true, the force which empowers them and the force which twists their souls.

Heck, that dreaded thing can raise and oust gods, it's pretty much the most broken and dreaded anime villain ever.

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The movie airing dates are only a week apart. Also, I think it is quite likely that at least episode 10's material will be expanded beyond the original airing, given the various comments SHAFT/Shinbo made about how they had to cut down Urobochi's original 45-minute screenplay and wanting to due a full length version.

One of the early setups I remember being speculated was accordingly Movie 1 being eps. 1-9, and the second covering episode 10 + the conclusion. That would leave the airing times/material to be covered in each movie to be quite unbalanced, however. That does seem to me to be the most natural splitting place in the storyline, however. Alternatively, I think the end of episode 8, at the point of total despair with Sayaka turning into a witch, might also be a good stopping point.

that would be great, I guess there is still hope for that.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

I'd rather not. All things considered, the Incubators aren't doing anything wrong.

The Incubators are doing something wrong. Kyubey is absolutely a villain.

Entropy was never established as a pressing concern in the Madoka Magica universe. Risking complete genocide of a sapient species that number in the billions (i.e. us humans) for a problem that may well be billions upon billions of years away is hardly justifiable. So I have to disagree with you and 1337 haxor. And arguing that magic itself is a villain seems a bit silly to me. Magic has done objective good in this series - It healed a musical prodigy's hand, which could bring all sorts of beautiful music to the world. Besides, blaming magic itself makes me think of people, in the real world, blaming the internet or blaming video games for what ails the world. These are all merely tools; it's how those tools are used that's the key thing.


All of that being said, I don't have any particular desire to see the Incubators wiped out in the third movie. They've been effectively tamed by Madoka's new system anyway.

[1337_haxor]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The Incubators are doing something wrong. Kyubey is absolutely a villain.

Entropy was never established as a pressing concern in the Madoka Magica universe. Risking complete genocide of a sapient species that number in the billions (i.e. us humans) for a problem that may well be billions upon billions of years away is hardly justifiable. So I have to disagree with you and 1337 haxor. And arguing that magic itself is a villain seems a bit silly to me. Magic has done objective good in this series - It healed a musical prodigy's hand, which could bring all sorts of beautiful music to the world. Besides, blaming magic itself makes me think of people, in the real world, blaming the internet or blaming video games for what ails the world. These are all merely tools; it's how those tools are used that's the key thing.


All of that being said, I don't have any particular desire to see the Incubators wiped out in the third movie. They've been effectively tamed by Madoka's new system anyway.

Sure, magic is just a tool, a resource to do good things.

They said the same thing about petrol and look where it got ourselves into, running straight to the apocalipse.

We have no freaking clue how entropy plays in Madoka's universe, it could very well have a breakdown threshold where the universe is destroyed in an irreplaceable sense.

Magic is a taboo, it is a force the girls are selling their souls to get a hand of and it will inneviably corrupt their souls and kill them.

The entire plot had a hidden condemnation to the oil industry who is willing to kill millions of innocent children to get a hang of cheap fuel.

The point is, even tough the Incubators acted to put the system in motion, magic was always a hidden evil humanity was not meant to know.

All Madoka does is filter the ensuing pollution left overs from magic (witches), she acts as a filter or catalyst that purifies the girls souls and whatever is left turns into demon energy.

[Animexcel]

I'm not sure if I would want to see a bunch of tv scenes on a theatrical film scale. Unless they manage to make the animation better than the blu ray, haha. But who knows. The designs of the characters in the promotional images for the movie look different than the original, so I'm gonna still hope that it will be new animation for these 2 movies.

[Eater of All]

The ep1-9 for the first movie and the rest for the second movie method is the neatest. I don't think it'll be too hard to fill up the second movie; the harder part is condensing ep1-9 enough to fit the first.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The Incubators are doing something wrong. Kyubey is absolutely a villain.

Entropy was never established as a pressing concern in the Madoka Magica universe. Risking complete genocide of a sapient species that number in the billions (i.e. us humans) for a problem that may well be billions upon billions of years away is hardly justifiable. So I have to disagree with you and 1337 haxor. And arguing that magic itself is a villain seems a bit silly to me. Magic has done objective good in this series - It healed a musical prodigy's hand, which could bring all sorts of beautiful music to the world. Besides, blaming magic itself makes me think of people, in the real world, blaming the internet or blaming video games for what ails the world. These are all merely tools; it's how those tools are used that's the key thing.


All of that being said, I don't have any particular desire to see the Incubators wiped out in the third movie. They've been effectively tamed by Madoka's new system anyway.

Depends entirely on what frame of reference you define "wrong" and "villain" with. For humans, having lives taken for the sake of preventing some kind of catastrophe billions of years in the future is so unbalanced in terms of expenditure/gain that it is clearly "wrong." For the incubators (maybe even the rest of the universe), reducing entropy will delay the death of their kind, create more energy for other races to use (maybe even foster new sentient lifeforms later in the road), and overall allow the universe to remain active. You also overexaggerate the threat of incubators; I'd say at most they only take a few hundred to a few thousand little girls a year, considering how sparse the magical girl population shown is. If not, we'd be extinct millenia ago, let alone be able to develop technologically.

[Kimidori]

Originally Posted by Eater of All

Depends entirely on what frame of reference you define "wrong" and "villain" with. For humans, having lives taken for the sake of preventing some kind of catastrophe billions of years in the future is so unbalanced in terms of expenditure/gain that it is clearly "wrong." For the incubators (maybe even the rest of the universe), reducing entropy will delay the death of their kind, create more energy for other races to use (maybe even foster new sentient lifeforms later in the road), and overall allow the universe to remain active. You also overexaggerate the threat of incubators; I'd say at most they only take a few hundred to a few thousand little girls a year, considering how sparse the magical girl population shown is. If not, we'd be extinct millenia ago, let alone be able to develop technologically.

yes, the threat of incubator recruiting cause human extinction is zero. but what if he found a girl as strong as madoka in the future? it only take a Kriemhild Gretchen to kill the entire humanity

[NaweG]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

yes, the threat of incubator recruiting cause human extinction is zero. but what if he found a girl as strong as madoka in the future? it only take a Kriemhild Gretchen to kill the entire humanity

I can even see how that wish would go. Some girl who is tired of being bullied wishing "I wish I was alone..."

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by 1337_haxor

Sure, magic is just a tool, a resource to do good things.

They said the same thing about petrol and look where it got ourselves into, running straight to the apocalipse.

We have no freaking clue how entropy plays in Madoka's universe, etc...

I'm sorry, but if you use a real world concept like "Entropy", and just put it out there without explaining it further, the default position is that it operates the same way in the fictional world as it does in real life.

Gen chose "Entropy" for a reason. He could have chose something entirely fictional and/or magical-based, and have it function however he wanted to. But he didn't, he chose entropy, knowing full well that it exists in real life.

I'm inclined to think that Gen chose "Entropy" precisely because it would make Kyubey seem so very alien and unjustifiable from a viewer perspective. I think the aim with that was to show that Kyubey is so far removed from human thinking that he's not a being that we can have any true meeting of the minds with. Basically, it's to make it clear that Madoka has to find a way to workaround the system, and that Kyubey isn't going to help her with that.

Originally Posted by Eater of All

Depends entirely on what frame of reference you define "wrong" and "villain" with.

I strongly disagree. Frame of reference doesn't change the objective harm that the Incubators do to humanity, and the risk of genocide that their actions cause. Just because the Incubators can rationalize their activities doesn't make it morally acceptable. It just makes it understandable.

Keep in mind that there's absolutely nothing stopping the Incubators from trying to find less harmful and alternative means of combating entropy in the extremely ample time that they have.

You also overexaggerate the threat of incubators;

No, I don't.

Don't you remember what Kyubey said about Kriemhild Gretchen in Timeline 4? He said she would destroy Earth within seven days. That would likely mean genocide right there (Madoka world struck me as advanced and a bit in the future, but not to the point that we could evacuate Earth within seven days and find a new planet to live on).

No Incubators messing around with humanity = No Kriemhild Grtechen.

[maximilianjenus]

and humans would still be naked and living in caves.

What annoys me the most about entropy is when qb leaves the earth because he has "filled his quota", which can be taken as collecting madoka's energy is enough to beat entropy, it annoys me because entropy being an universal rule you need infinite energy to balance it out so the unvierse never ends, otherwise there is no point to fighting entropy at all.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

and humans would still be naked and living in caves.

Well, that's just something Kyubey said. Even if we say that Kyubey doesn't say falsehoods, what he said here may have just been an opinion, or an exaggeration. Kyubey is not beyond being surprised.

And if Kyubey is capable of lying, this might be a clever and productive lie for him to make, as it helps to ensure that Madoka wouldn't make a wish like "I wish that Incubators and humans had never meant one another, and never will."

What annoys me the most about entropy is when qb leaves the earth because he has "filled his quota", which can be taken as collecting madoka's energy is enough to beat entropy, it annoys me because entropy being an universal rule you need infinite energy to balance it out so the unvierse never ends, otherwise there is no point to fighting entropy at all.

There could be other alien worlds that other incubators work on. Kyubey may have been the incubator sent to Earth, with a certain energy qouta assigned to him. Kriemheld Gretchen gave him enough energy to fill that qouta.

[woxx]

I hope that second movie will show us episode 10 in detail, especially how Madoka defeated Walpurgis in past timelines.

[AuraTwilight]

Considering how incredibly vast the universe is, the loss of a single planet isn't a big deal, guys. OBJECTIVELY, it's barely a drop in the bucket. If you're going to talk about the objective harm the Incubators cause, you have to also consider their objective good. Objectively, they are heroes.

[Guernsey]

Except as some people noted ont he thread, Entropy needs more energy than the magical girls can actually give. So if anything Madoka didn't really solve anything except delay the inevitable or made it easier for the mahou shoujo. Urobutcher should had really thought the whole entropy thing through or least elaborate on it.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Considering how incredibly vast the universe is, the loss of a single planet isn't a big deal, guys. OBJECTIVELY, it's barely a drop in the bucket. If you're going to talk about the objective harm the Incubators cause, you have to also consider their objective good. Objectively, they are heroes.

Ironically, even if what they do will ultimately save the Universe, they can't be called heroes either because, as Kyubey said, his race has no understanding of emotions. The Incubators might as well be machines and it's that true sense of unfeelingness about actions that makes it so uncomfortable from a viewer perspective.

I can understand what the Incubators are doing. That does not mean I'm going to accept it though.