Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[apotheosis]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I suppose that kinda confirms it. Ledo wasn't just talking out of his ass when he told the Gargantians the Hideauze are leaving them alone because their technology is so backwards.

The things consume energy, and for the GA it's not an option to try to coexist. While deep space exploration and the challenges it brings can lead to the sort of system the GA is, for them to not have words for co-existance tells me chances are the GA is something that formed because of the Hideauze. Instead of just being a dystopian society that picked up a fight with a benevolent alien race.

Yes, that seems to fit with the information we've been shown so far.

The way the GA was presented, it doesn't seem as much a totalitarian society for the sake of control/oppression as one pushed to the brink of dissolution & desparate to use whatever means necessary to survive. We only had a brief look at it, so that could be deliberately misleading, I suppose.

[Hooves]

I have a feeling that the Galactic Alliance will come to Earth when they see/discover signed of Hideauze there. Then another big battle/war will erupt on Earth and things will get even crazier. Other then that, I for one think the Gargantians have been exploiting Ledo while still not allowing him into their society entirely. Sure there were some warm-hearted parts, and Ledo is free to do whatever he wishes.

But if something goes wrong, they are simply going to use Ledo as a scapegoat. Even now, he's being taken advantage of the situation because treasure hunter instincts are arising and using Ledo as a bodyguard and exploiting his deep hatred for the Hideauze is shown briefly. Hopefully some people can show Ledo in a "peaceful and calm" manner about how to slowly join the society they live in.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by apotheosis

Yes, that seems to fit with the information we've been shown so far.

The way the GA was presented, it doesn't seem as much a totalitarian society for the sake of control/oppression as one pushed to the brink of dissolution & desparate to use whatever means necessary to survive. We only had a brief look at it, so that could be deliberately misleading, I suppose.

I'm glad someone caught that. So they do eat energy. That would be death for the GA. Unlike the ships of Gargantia, spaceships and space colonies can't turn off all their power. They would not only be sitting ducks, but they depend on life support and other things to live. There is no way they can live side by side with the Hideauze if the Hideauze is going to attack them simply to consume their energy.

I too thought that way about the GA, they are not brutal or cold just because. I mean imagine that you had just lost your planet and you have to find a way to live in that cold vastness with only limited energy, supplies, and food. Not to mention you are constantly being attacked by strange energy draining monsters. The culture would have to adjust to survive, which is why resources are measured and given out, birth rate is limited, soldiers are needed to fight and protect the civilians. There is no longer money or fighting between humans. Weakness is eliminated, as well as unnecessary things, and they have had to constantly advance in order to live. Unfortunately, every time they advance, they become more appetizing to the Hideauze, which means more battles and more destruction until they are able to destroy the Hideauze once and for all.

Humankind became a cold, sterile people in order to adapt to their cold, sterile environment. However, I think like Red, if the Hideauze were no more, and they were able to find a suitable planet to settle on (which Red states that is the Alliance's dream), then I think that humanity's humanity would eventually return.

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

My real issue is instead of developing and focusing on things that would be important to this episode, the series wasted time on things that were not important at all.

What, like needlessly exploiting young females with provocative belly dancing and erotic, tete-a-tete, might-as-well-be lap dancing? Like voluptuous females with their assets busting out of bathing suits to ensure that a certain segment of the DVD/BD buying market lusts after those specific episodes? Just how much time did they waste on Ledo being chased about by transvestites? Was that supposed to be funny?

Yup, I agree with you on that score. Time was wasted on frivolous things [that increase sales] instead of broadening our base of knowledge about the various characters, interactions, and threats that our MC would have to deal with in future episodes.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Now, Pinion's situation seems to suggest that there is the odd exception to this (the implication to his words is that his brother was killed by a whalesquid), but such exceptions may well be rare, and even understandable from a whalesquid perspective.

If Pinion is, indeed, a reflection of his brother, I suspect that it was his brother, not a whalesquid, that initiated any conflict that caused his brother's demise.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by FredFriendly

If Pinion is, indeed, a reflection of his brother, I suspect that it was his brother, not a whalesquid, that initiated any conflict that caused his brother's demise.

Well, we'd have to see a flashback to confirm, but usually in anime, if one brother (usually the younger, like Pinion) is a reckless idiot who goofs off and such, the other brother, usually the elder (as in this case), is the responsible, careful one who constantly takes care of and protects the younger.

So, we can't say yet whether or not it was Pinion's brother's fault or not.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by FredFriendly

What, like needlessly exploiting young females with provocative belly dancing and erotic, tete-a-tete, might-as-well-be lap dancing? Like voluptuous females with their assets busting out of bathing suits to ensure that a certain segment of the DVD/BD buying market lusts after those specific episodes? Just how much time did they waste on Ledo being chased about by transvestites? Was that supposed to be funny?

Yup, I agree with you on that score. Time was wasted on frivolous things [that increase sales] instead of broadening our base of knowledge about the various characters, interactions, and threats that our MC would have to deal with in future episodes.

Bit harsh Fred, slice of life scenes are actually a big feature of the series and supposed to offer the proper contrast in this case. And I thought Ledo's reaction was hilarious with the transvestites

[andyjay729]

Man, this episode really drew the right-wingers out of the woodwork.

Wonder how they'll react if it turns out the Hideauze are just like bears going dumpster-diving.

Y'know, I kinda prefer that theory myself. It would be an interesting twist on the usual aliens-were-just-misunderstood ending. The Alliance might be expansionist social Darwinists, but the Hideauze are also greedy gluttons. It'd also fit with Gen's morally ambiguous casts.

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Well, we'd have to see a flashback to confirm, but usually in anime, if one brother (usually the younger, like Pinion) is a reckless idiot who goofs off and such, the other brother, usually the elder (as in this case), is the responsible, careful one who constantly takes care of and protects the younger.

So, we can't say yet whether or not it was Pinion's brother's fault or not.

Okay, so an alternative hypothesis is that big brother was killed when trying to rescue little brother who had, himself, caused an altercation with a whalesquid. Hmm... This seems even more likely.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Bit harsh Fred, slice of life scenes are actually a big feature of the series and supposed to offer the proper contrast in this case. And I thought Ledo's reaction was hilarious with the transvestites

I'm not disputing whether or not that slice of life scenes are supposed to be a big part of the series, but I have already sounded my objections to the dancing scenes. Sure the transvestite scenes were funny, but were they really necessary? Did they really fit into the overall theme of this show?

I don't deny that tits and ass are nice to look at, but couldn't they have interspersed the previous two episode with a bit more information? For instance, instead of scantily clad girls just talking about themselves getting fat, couldn't the writers have worked that into a [very brief] discussion about the health of the Fleet Commander? Or how the sacred whalesquids had bestowed upon them such a glorious day to lounge around looking sexy? You know, that sort of thing.

And this whole thing with the belligerent whalesquids, I musta been asleep when I watched the first five and a half episodes. It seemed to me that, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, appears a new "enemy of the week" that makes the entire citizenry of Gargantia shudder in fear. You know, like what's-her-name, the Pirate Queen. And here comes the Knight in Shining Armored Death Machine to rescue the Damsel Amy in distress!

It just seems that there had been too much fluff in the previous two episodes, and not enough substance.

[zalem]

Well, at least things are picking up a bit with the series. I was really starting to get bored to be honest. Just not really excited to watch the next episode. Now at least I'm moderately interested again.

[Crazy'O]

There are two options, live while fearing the hideauze and never have advanced technology (Gargantia) or fight and do everything to win (Galactic Alliance) and it seems that even on the Gargantia some people would choose to fight if they had the means to.

I would fight. I think developing and using technology is an essential part of what freedom is for humanity and putting other things on hold until we regain that, even if it means we'll die trying, is worth it. But I would make sure not to forget what I fight for.

[aohige]

The Hideauze are.........

*drum roll*

THE ANTI-SPIRALS.

*dun dun dun*

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So their cage isn't that uncomfortable. It's still a cage. Though I'll note, Gargantia would have serious problems if another cataclysm happens, without the advanced technology they can't afford to have because of the Hideauze. Or if they come across some pirate band that isn't happy with just a small tribute. Or if the Hideauze change their mind about leaving them alone. The grasshopper thought complacency was great too. In the summer.

But to go back to my point: I won't pretend that the GA are free either. The Hideauze are a threat, and to deal with them they've sacrificed a lot. But at least they're still fighting. They're still trying to get out of their damn cage.

This.

I do not feel comfortable with the idea that, living in a "don't cross this technological line or we'll eat you" birdcage is acceptable.
Gargantians have the perfect excuse of ignorance, they don't realize the advancement of humanity is kept in check.

But if those squids really are playing the Anti-spiral game, then it should not be accepted. Sure, the human alliance is probably an unideal dystopian entity, and I wouldn't want the message to take side of them. But that doesn't change the fact "dem squids are the enemy of humanity" one bit.

That is, assuming, Ledo's observation about Hideauze is correct.

[backbone]

Thank God, finally the plot getting back to track again. Honestly, the two previous episodes bored me to death with unnecessary, mundane slice of life thingy. Heck, i didn't even bother to post my comments here during that time

Upon destroying the shiny octopus, Chamber analysis that Hideauzes whom the Alliance have been fighting and the ones in the ocean are the same species totally took me by surprise. Who knows that the creatures that have been lurking all this time far below Gargantia turned out to be them? I understand Ledo's feelings to go about and just get rid the heck of them, but i cannot sympathize such thought considering he's putting all Gargantian citizen in danger. And the scene when Amy bawled her eye out for him just made Ledo look bad, and very bad for me.

Glad that there's more than meet the eyes on Pinion and i'm really thankful that he's not just the usual happy-go-lucky dude. Hope his backstory will be explored much better later to allow for some interesting twist.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by backbone

Upon destroying the shiny octopus, Chamber analysis that Hideauzes whom the Alliance have been fighting and the ones in the ocean are the same species totally took me by surprise. Who knows that the creatures that have been lurking all this time far below Gargantia turned out to be them? I understand Ledo's feelings to go about and just get rid the heck of them, but i cannot sympathize such thought considering he's putting all Gargantian citizen in danger. And the scene when Amy bawled her eye out for him just made Ledo look bad, and very bad for me.

To me it made her look selfish and spoiled. What right does she have to demand he give up his identity, his people?

[Theo]

Originally Posted by andyjay729

Man, this episode really drew the right-wingers out of the woodwork.

Wonder how they'll react if it turns out the Hideauze are just like bears going dumpster-diving.

Well every time someone shoots or runs over a bear, they don't send a huge army of bears parading through our cities. The squids are like huge, tentacled locusts.

And we all know what humans do to pests like these.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by andyjay729

Man, this episode really drew the right-wingers out of the woodwork.

Wonder how they'll react if it turns out the Hideauze are just like bears going dumpster-diving.

Since right now, the GA are hobos who need that dumpter to live in? It doesn't change a thing. If anything, it just makes "negotiation" even less of an option.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

To me it made her look selfish and spoiled. What right does she have to demand he give up his identity, his people?

Hold your horses Anh, you're going too far.

Amy thinks that Ledo is wrong and she has all the rights to speak her mind and try all that she can to persuade him to change his mind, provided she doesn't resort to violent methods.

Letting people do whatever they want without even protesting even if you think they are making a very big mistake is not how a friend should act.


As for Ridget she had the rights to stop Ledo from taking actions that would have effects on the whole fleet. Until proven otherwise he is a soldier stranded in a foreign country. He must respect the local authority or leave.


Think it in these terms. Imagine a french soldier in Swiss soil during world war II. Sure Nazi are evil all that you want, but does that soldier has the right to initiate hostilities in a foreign soil that declared neutrality?

[Iron Maw]

Very good episode, last week and this has been a more welcome return to form.

The best part of this episode is that we now get a better idea of conflict between the Alliance and Hideauze. Rather than being mortal enemies it's about resources; the Hideauze feed the energy the Alliance needs to live, thus a natural conflict of interests occurred.

Looking at this in a broader more symbolic prospective, I think the Alliance and Gargantia represent two different paths Humanity has chosen in response to these creatures. The humans of Alliance continued their technological advances to better their life and ended up in an large scale war with the Hideauze. The Gargantians on the other hand abandoned that way and became submissive to Hideauze instead, living a harder by more peaceful life. Which way was the right decision? It's hard to say for since both groups had to make hard sacrifices for the way they live now.

Anyway, quite looking forward to next week, moreso since it going to gave Pinion some much needed fleshing out.

Originally Posted by Kanon

The only way for this to end well is for Ledo to learn the humans were completely at fault, otherwise he'll never give up on his mission and it will have some very nasty repercussions.

Eh, honestly I don't really like this idea because it would suggest technology advancement is bad. This is more complex issue then that imo, besides despite what the Gargantians might say, they aren't really living in co-existence with the Whitesquid/Hideazue anyway. They're living in fear of them, to point where most of the population treats those sea creatures as religious icons. However considering that they have no real effective means to fight them and are more or less completely dependent on them for survival I can understand why. I can also why see those of the Alliance would not like this either.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Eh, honestly I don't really like this idea because it would suggest technology advancement is bad.

Depends on the technology advancement. If it turns out that the Hideauze only target technologies that are bad for the environment then it's a whole different story.
In that case it would turn out to be the same situation depicted in Nausicaa.

It would become a matter of Sustainable development and I think we all agree that it's something we should consider carefully.

For example, what if the planet froze and became uninhabitable because of man? And what if it's only because of the Hideauze if it became capable of sustain life again? Again Nausicaa comes to mind.


Of course there is also the possibility that the Hideauze just attack advanced technology whether it is used wrongly on wisely, in that case they'd be like the anti-spiral and they would be on the wrong side.

[Hamster]

Um...are you guys seeing what I'm seeing?

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Depends on the technology advancement. If it turns out that the Hideauze only target technologies that are bad for the environment then it's a whole different story.
In that case it would turn out to be the same situation depicted in Nausicaa.

It would become a matter of Sustainable development and I think we all agree that it's something we should consider carefully.

For example, what if the planet froze and became uninhabitable because of man? And what if it's only because of the Hideauze if it became capable of sustain life again? Again Nausicaa comes to mind.


Of course there is also the possibility that the Hideauze just attack advanced technology whether it is used wrongly on wisely, in that case they'd be like the anti-spiral and they would be on the wrong side.

I agree in general, however going by ep1 it does seem the Hideauze go after anything with energy (you can see them eating planet I think). So I get the feeling these beings live by instinct rather than intelligence. Of course the space bugs may just be more hostile by nature compared to them water bred cousins.

@Hamster: What.