(L) Coppelion [anime]

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

In very first minute was pointed both other girls physical capabilities are more than bit inferior to Ibara.

Physical capabilities involves more than stamina alone. Just because Ibara has more stamina than the other two girls doesn't mean that she's the only one with heightened physical capabilities.

Saying only Ibara has enhanced capability (if even) has far stronger basis than saying otherwise.

No, it doesn't. The differences between Ibara and her two teammates are less important than the similarities between them.

If they had such abilities in first place there would be no point worry about girl attacked by wolves.

This isn't a normal wolf. There's no knowing what radiation has done to this wolf. The wolf itself may have enhanced abilities.

If they was woried that itself is proof they can be hurt.

There's different levels of physically enhanced abilities. Last I checked, Luke Cage (PowerMan) in Marvel Comics is immune to bullets (i.e. they won't pierce his tough skin), but they do hurt him when shot at him from point-blank range. Nonetheless, its pointless for Luke Cage to wear a bullet-proof vest, because that vest offers him nothing that he doesn't already have.

These girls only have to be very mildly physically enhanced to render the difference between skirts and track pants totally inconsequential.


And even if they don't have physical enhancements beyond what has already been made crystal clear in the anime, it is the absolute heights of ridiculous nitpicky-ness to think that the tiny, little safety difference between a skirt and track pants is worth all these pages of complaint and criticism.

Good grief...

[sikvod00]

You can't really complain about how drawn out this discussion has been when you've been a loyal contributor to it, lol.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

You can't really complain about how drawn out this discussion has been when you have healthy contribution, lol.

Sure I can legitimately complain about how drawn out this discussion is. I'm only replying to other people's complaints and arguments. Otherwise, I would have stopped posting about this long ago. I even attempted to have agreement to put the debate on hold for now, but no, apparently that's not good enough for those who want to keep complaining about a character design choice that was made obvious in the most basic promotions for the show.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I really don't get the reason behind this roundabout discussion about the main girls' decision to wear school uniforms.

Certain people are only picking on a certain aspect of our complaints about the first episode. School uniforms are just representative of the issue, but not the sole defining problem. I think the more important things have been touched by other posters:

Originally Posted by DemonOfWrath

Yes there's supposed to be dissonance about them, it's quite clear that's part of the point of the show. I think though that you can get too much of that and you can leave the point where it adds intrigue and end up at a point where it simply clashes too much with the rest of the setting. Less is often more, especially when you're trying to convey something as unsettling, as too much can simply turn it into a parody, or just cause it to lose impact.

Think of horror stuff (at least this is my perspective on it). Spreading the scares keeps things scary and adds a lot of tension where you don't know when something will happen. Constantly throw scary stuff at the audience and it soon loses most of the scare factor because there's no longer any buildup or anticipation.

I'm not saying, by the way, that they need to be deathly serious all the time. I liked Ibara, she displayed focus and treated their situation with respect, and still let loose a bit and that's fine (and made her more interesting). The problem I found was that the other two had no seriousness at all. Sure, have them act like girls their age, but make them also act like they're doing a serious, and potentially dangerous, job at the same time. That's probably 100% the whining girl, and the idiocy with the dog that causes me a problem with that though.

And why does looking like normal high school girls mean high school uniforms anyways? Students wear stuff besides their uniform, and there's no lack of anime that can still make them look like high schoolers in normal clothes.

Which I agree wholeheartedly with.

-----

Anyways, there's still a lot more to unravel about the characters and setting here, so I'll hold off on any more judgement until then.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Certain people are only picking on a certain aspect of our complaints about the first episode.

This "certain aspect" is the one that has been getting, by far, the most amount of attention from more critical reviewers of this episode. So it's the critics that focused the debate around that point.

But in any event, let's see if we can shift discussion to different aspects.

Originally Posted by DemonOfWrath

The problem I found was that the other two had no seriousness at all. Sure, have them act like girls their age, but make them also act like they're doing a serious, and potentially dangerous, job at the same time.

I don't see where this criticism is valid. The other two girls did show some seriousness over their mission in this episode. In fact, it was the other two girls that emphasized to Ibara that she should follow protocol and wait for the Commander. Clearly the other two girls are taking things seriously here.

They also seemed to take the discovery of animals in the city pretty seriously.

[Infinite Zenith]

Was anyone else here (who have read Alan Weisman's The World Without Us) impressed by how Coppelion depicts a city twenty years after humans? It's actually quite consistent with what the book speculates!

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by orion

HotD: Those girls had time to change. They went to even less attire for the OVA.

I speak during the initial attack, lols.... They can change since it's already safe.

Btoom!: Actually, she does have access to some change of clothes. Her attire still remains the school uniform by design of the title.

Coz, it's cute

You just need to resign to the fact that Japanese tastes revolve around girls in school uniforms. This title is aimed at that population.

Yeah, and it's not convincing for their role.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by NoemiChan

Yeah, and it's not convincing for their role.

That's just what you, and some other people, think. Some of us disagree with you, and have given decent reasons for why.

MOVE ON ALREADY.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Physical capabilities involves more than stamina alone. Just because Ibara has more stamina than the other two girls doesn't mean that she's the only one with heightened physical capabilities.

Yes, it doesn't, but she is only one who actualy SHOWED any physical proves. And honestly based on their pace and load their stamina is not just lesser than Ibara, but also lesser than that of average hiker.

No, it doesn't. The differences between Ibara and her two teammates are less important than the similarities between them.

Only similiarities between them is resistence to radiation due modifications and affilation with same school nothing more. Each of them has different abilities and capabilities so generalising is useless here.

This isn't a normal wolf. There's no knowing what radiation has done to this wolf. The wolf itself may have enhanced abilities.

Again only abnormality wolf showed is adaptation to radiation so far, killed one didn't show any other deviation and girls didn't showed any sign of suspeciting such thing either. I know you watching lot of anime and Marvel (maybe even DC) stuff, but radiation doesn't change people (nor animals) into spidermen.

There's different levels of physically enhanced abilities. Last I checked, Luke Cage (PowerMan) in Marvel Comics is immune to bullets (i.e. they won't pierce his tough skin), but they do hurt him when shot at him from point-blank range. Nonetheless, its pointless for Luke Cage to wear a bullet-proof vest, because that vest offers him nothing that he doesn't already have.

These girls only have to be very mildly physically enhanced to render the difference between skirts and track pants totally inconsequential.


And even if they don't have physical enhancements beyond what has already been made crystal clear in the anime, it is the absolute heights of ridiculous nitpicky-ness to think that the tiny, little safety difference between a skirt and track pants is worth all these pages of complaint and criticism.

And your final argument is they was physicaly enhanced to wear skirt instead of pants!! If their enhancement is only that level it's same as if they weren't anyway.

I am not enhanced either and yet don't have problem take shorts into wood despite knowing trousers are more practical ...just because I feel like.

And if they wear skirts it's just cause they feel comfortable in these, there is no need such overcombined theories and wild assumptions.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by ForwardUntoDawn

Was anyone else here (who have read Alan Weisman's The World Without Us) impressed by how Coppelion depicts a city twenty years after humans? It's actually quite consistent with what the book speculates!

I haven't read The World Without Us, but I have done a lot of research about a city that really was abandoned by humans after a nuclear disaster - Pripyat, in the Ukraine, near the Chernobyl nuclear power plant. And I'd say the people making Coppelion have studied Pripyat, too. The Vice-Principal's anti-radiation outfit looks like a professional-grade version of the improvised gear that the Chernobyl "liquidators" wore when they had to clear radioactive debris off the roof of the building. The Vice-Principal refers to the epicenter of the disaster as "the coffin," which is a riff on the structure that was built around Chernobyl Reactor No. 4, which is called "the Sarcophagus."

Pripyat and the rest of the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone are teeming with wildlife of all kinds, even an endangered species of wild horse that was specifically brought there to have a habitat away from human beings. The animals have adapted to the radioactivity - but they don't have super-powers.

Now isn't that a lot more interesting than skirts-vs-track pants?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Again only abnormality wolf showed is adaptation to radiation so far, killed one didn't show any other deviation and girls didn't showed any sign of suspeciting such thing either. I know you watching lot of anime and Marvel (maybe even DC) stuff, but radiation doesn't change people (nor animals) into spidermen.

This show may be hard sci-fi, but given that the whole premise of the show is "Three bio-engineered girls exploring a radiation-infested post-apocalyptic area", I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have a little bit of fun with what the radiation causes, if you catch my drift.

Do I expect Spider-Man? No.

But I do expect the radiation will do more than just cause animals and people to become adapted to it. I mean, don't you think this story would be boring otherwise?

I am not enhanced either and yet don't have problem take shorts into wood despite knowing trousers are more practical ...just because I feel like.

Ok, fine. If that works for you, then great.

[Jan-Poo]

Personally I'm more bothered by how these bioengineered girls which are ostensibly part of a military organization were apparently raised and trained (or rather not trained) like normal high school girls.

You'd think that an investment of that degree which has probably heavy implications on the future of mankind would warrant a way different kind of formation, and yet one of them has already shown signs of insubordination while the other two have absolutely no soldier mentality.

Well it would be interesting to see what kind of explanation they have for that, but I think there probably won't be any explanation at all.

Another bizarre factor is the disaster itself. I don't think I've ever heard of radiation selectively killing humans. Here we are presented with a thick flora and several animals surviving and thriving in an environment that is extremely lethal to humans. That's quite hard to believe. Even if you tell me that all this wildlife is mutated that still would be something impossible to happen naturally in such a short time span.
Perhaps there's some kind of secret to explain this strange situation.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I don't think I've ever heard of radiation selectively killing humans. Here we are presented with a thick flora and several animals surviving and thriving in an environment that is extremely lethal to humans. That's quite hard to believe. Even if you tell me that all this wildlife is mutated that still would be something impossible to happen naturally in such a short time span.
Perhaps there's some kind of secret to explain this strange situation.

Hard to believe, but that's exactly what's happened in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone. There are a number of ongoing scientific studies that are trying to find out why.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

Hard to believe, but that's exactly what's happened in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone. There are a number of ongoing scientific studies that are trying to find out why.

Actually according to that site even in the most radiactive zones there's just about 66 micro roentgen per hour. That's nowhere close to be immediately lethal for a human, you could camp there for a week and you wouldn't even notice.

The situation shown in Coppelion isn't comparable to that.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

This show may be hard sci-fi, but given that the whole premise of the show is "Three bio-engineered girls exploring a radiation-infested post-apocalyptic area", I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have a little bit of fun with what the radiation causes, if you catch my drift.

Do I expect Spider-Man? No.

But I do expect the radiation will do more than just cause animals and people to become adapted to it. I mean, don't you think this story would be boring otherwise?

I don't think story would be necessary boring because that, but I do catch your drift. Still I think "harder" aproach would be better than too much of "fun".

Anyway it seems we can move on (at least for now). Which is perfectly ok with me as well.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Actually according to that site even in the most radiactive zones there's just about 66 micro roentgen per hour. That's nowhere close to be immediately lethal for a human, you could camp there for a week and you wouldn't even notice.

The situation shown in Coppelion isn't comparable to that.

Maybe that's the point. It's probably not off the chart bad but it's Chernobyl level. And something else is happening there combined with the radiation to take out only humans like radiation plus biological warfare experiment gone bad.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by orion

Maybe that's the point. It's probably not off the chart bad but it's Chernobyl level. And something else is happening there combined with the radiation to take out only humans like radiation plus biological warfare experiment gone bad.

Well that's an interesting possibility or perhaps some kind of strange phenomenon (or artificial meddling) caused a rapid mutation in the wildlife.

The idea of living beings mutated to resist extremely high level of radiation isn't that far off, there is a known bacterium that possesses those amazing properties. Theoretically it might be possible to give those same properties to other living beings' cells.

[Mich666]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't see where this criticism is valid. The other two girls did show some seriousness over their mission in this episode. In fact, it was the other two girls that emphasized to Ibara that she should follow protocol and wait for the Commander. Clearly the other two girls are taking things seriously here.

Are you real? Cause I don't know how anyone reasonably and logically thinking can advocate this all the way. Are you simply trying to persuade yourself it's okay or are you just overlooking it? May I ask what's the best point of this anime for you just for the sake of my curiosity? (and no, I don't take words 'I doesn't care it's anime' for an answer)

That 'following protocol' was just her being scared and not able to decide herself, that's plain obvious. And eating onigiri and having picnic amongst the wasteland is also pretty 'serious', you know.

But I think the reason why we all are having this debate is clear - this anime wants to explore some serious topics and it is trying to have its impact but at the same time it undermines it with such petty things. I think that generally, people like its idea and theme of it. But this fact simply made them CARE - for those little things that wasn't needed, for those little things that could be changed.. and it would be marvellous and great that way. You know, something called suspension of disbelief can only go so far.

And it's not that this kind of serious show couldn't have some funny and lighthearted scenes - remember Higashi no Eden for example - it's just that those relaxed and funny moments have to take the place in times when it doesn't matter for rest of the story.

[Tenzen12]

You can judge what anime "want" and how well it handle doing so after single episode? Wow, you are realy awesome!

ic
...With exception it worked perfectly fine with me. Serious situation =/= angst/phylosophical monologues. It all depends on characters they are ones set a mood of any story. If It isn't out of character it's belivable.

That aside (but not completely), girls situation and attitude remind me Majestic Prince, and by continuing read manga that impression grow even stronger.

[JKL]

Looks pretty cool. Most (potentially) exciting thing shown so far.