2007-03-27, 02:02 | Link #61 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
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If I still misinterpreted what you said, then I'm sorry. I'm tired too (stupid homework |
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2007-03-27, 08:10 | Link #64 |
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sasuke did put the world in danger when he went to orochimaru. even akatsuki is afraid of orochimaru gaining the sharingran. sasuke kind of redeemed himself being defeating orochimaru, if and after he kills itachi he will probably feel empty inside and his will weaken. meaning that orochimaru might take over. if orochimaru is to take possesion of the sharingran there is no telling what he will do.
so naruto only worried about retrieving sasuke is not that bad. sasuke is still a good leader i think, a good leader can be selfish. as long as he leads well. of course he won't be like i won't let my friends get hurt and and jump in front of kunai
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2007-03-27, 08:39 | Link #65 | ||
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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However My point was specific to Sasuke and Sasuke Sacrificing the life of his teammates, regardless of the will of his followers, and in his case, I doubt that his team is going to share the vision of Sasuke’s goal. Maybe Sasuke is going to fight Itachi alone, but that doesn’t mean in the path to get there he is not going to use any help, as he already have used Help from Oro, Kakashi and Naruto.
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2007-03-27, 09:25 | Link #66 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Serbia
Age: 38
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In Sasukes cose, becouse of his past and motive ... and in Shikamaru cose, i think i will die .. Quote:
they will follow him becouse they own him life .. when they do that task they will be free too go .. |
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2007-03-27, 09:45 | Link #67 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Well I understand that his past and motive drive his selfishness, but that still doesn't stop his being selfish to a fault. He left because he thought he wasn't getting stronger fast enough. That's what caused him to compromise Konoha's safety (by potentially giving Oro his body) in favor of his goal. There's no indication that just because he got owned after having trained in Konoha at age 12, he would NEVER become strong enough in Konoha to achieve his goal. He just couldn't stand to be helping with other things along with working towards his goal. One of the differences between his case and Shikamaru's case: Shikamaru's case directly conflicted with his goal to stay alive, but Sasuke's staying in Konoha and completing missions doesn't stop him from getting stronger. I can't really expand any more on this because I have to go to class.
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2007-03-27, 10:30 | Link #68 | |||||
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
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oro is a completely different thing. Sasuke is able to know the enemies strength(good ability) and he sensed this guy was way above their head. he wasnt in chuunin lvl you know doing all those things. which is why if they wanted to stay alive he made that choice. buttonline he knows when to fight and when not to which some don't. Not knowing when to stop can get your team group killed Quote:
you only metioned that oro had good leader capabilities Quote:
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about sasuke goal not having a purpose is for me not the case. why in my world of reasoning the crime of itachi has been left unpunished. This is my case is bad as the victems will have a felling of unsecurity in this case sasuke didnt have reassuring or justice which is why i can understand he takes it in his own hands its actually the fault of konoha not going after criminals like itachi more serious that we now have yet another drama like with naruto's kyuubi. Quote:
we dont know what they will do when they go with him so i think its too early to make statements about his recruiting skills. there was another example i would put forth to show why a good leader doenst need to die is 2 guys wat to go for team leader one has good leader qualities but is unwillingly to die for the team the other has bad leader qualities and is willing to die for the team who would you pick as a team leader. my pick is the 1st since i know if i ask something to be done it will be done. while with the other i might get casualties and get a failed mission because he doenst have good leader quality's @ asianknight the thing i take account for as a good leader is their capabilities as a leader in doing the job. our world history is filled with conquest and slavery and all other misfortune for others who lost. Now the fact that they were able to achieve those things makes that they have good leader capabilities if they didnt have those we would live in a world of peace but thats not the case. the romans where brutal conquerers but thos eleaders were damn good leaders. same for the mongols. reason why i said mongols because they had the biggest empire that we know of in our world. which tells me something about their capabilities. @ rurouni i dont get your point man. Teams what i think you mean allways get an order from someone else like in konoha. In the case of sasuke and co its different its his personal or rather justice for his clan and those that died to finally bring justice (how selfish is that huh leaving a criminal out on the lose anyway/whatever). So at the end of the story it comes down to how willing is his group willing to do that. That has nothing to do with his leadership goals since they have different objective's maybe we dont even know what drives them. The fact that sasuke wants to kill itachi is for me a respectable thing cuz he does what konoha is unable to do cuz they is lame. Im trying to explain to you how i see it you see it as selfish that sasuke wants to bring justice to itachi i see it as honourable in the eyes to his clan the Uchiha. its like those anime wher eyou see that a master of a dojo gets killed and the pupil take his revenge cuz the guy who kille dhim is left unpunished(aka bruce lee, jetli) i seriouslyd ont understand what drives most people for hating sasuke and saying all stuff like arrogant and selfish and stuff:s? about the selfishness is it self for naruto to become hokage cuz he wants that if thats selfish then i think ima go nuts. sasuke wants to kill itachi is not selfish selfish and that dictionary actually doenst say it in which i would want it to be said. Selfishness is when you care & only see yourself with disregard of others, Sasuke woul dbe selfish if for example he fought itachi and he had a chance of saving sakura who is being attacked by someone and he doenst take it but only concerns withhimself. Thats selfish. He isnt selfish for pursuing his goal. What i vaguely know is that when sasuke heard itachi was in the village who was after naruto. He went searching for naruto at once. If he was selfish he would go after itachi. Instead the author showed how he went from shop to shop to seek naruto how selfish is his goal huh. So he went after naruto he had in mind that naruto might be killed of so in that sense i felt he indeed took naruto into consideration before his goal. this hate for sasuke really needs to stop cuz its just pointless Last edited by Syndicate; 2007-03-27 at 11:04. |
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2007-03-27, 12:09 | Link #69 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
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You seem to have a problem with my belief that everyone is at least a bit selfish, and that's ok, but that's also a completely different discussion that I don't want to get into right now. I think you're expressing some of the same things that SpiRo did, and I've already given my opinion on such things. If we disagree, then that's ok. And finally, I'll re-quote a couple things from there in isolation: Quote:
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2007-03-27, 12:33 | Link #70 | |||||||||
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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And then, I made a mistake As I should have said “that why I said that Oro have good Leadership qualities, Basically I don’t consider a Oro to be a Good leader, given that for me what he does is using his good leadership qualities, in order to have his followers do what he wants, and in this case just managing them like sacrifices pieces, which he considers them to not worth more than that and I have a hard time Thinking this as been a good leader. Quote:
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Or Maybe He free them because he really see them as friend, but I just don’t see that happening. Quote:
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I can’t say, even if this person have better leadership qualities or is a good leader, that I would follow him, giving his commitment to the team. A leader who has such a weak commitment to the team, can end up hiding his face when the moment needs for him to stood up. He will be someone that is a good leader, but he would not be applying his leadership qualities to the team he is in charge of. And at the end the mission could have the same success as the one lead by someone who is a bad leader, but has inspired other to trust him.
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2007-03-27, 13:35 | Link #71 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Serbia
Age: 38
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As far as i know that arrogance and selfishnes r not bad characteristics ! Also that dont respond on leadership... (if someone who was better then u in something was arrogant i dont care, he is arrogant becouse he is better, and he can do what ever he wants) Syndicate didnt point hate becouse someone think different from us .. he wanted to say that all who start rediculous threads and posts, about every Sasukes characteristic, or what he done, or how he look, or his bloodline, everything on what they r jealous .. ar Sasuke haters .. Thats why Sasuke fans always r in deffensive stance. u dont see that Sasuke fans start funny threads about Narutos characteristics becouse we (Sasuke fans) know that Naruto is retard and we dont have anything to talk about retards.. that assume that we dont hate him he is pathetic in my eyes .. (its like when u see invalid u dont look at him and u dont laugh at him)( Naruto = Invalid) And u dont hate that invalid .. but when u see Bill Gates ppl start talking he is idiot etc etc .. or when u see Beckam jealous ppl start talking he is idiot, ugly, bad football player etc etc . ! So do u see there some similar things ? Beckham = Bad footbal player ( why is he bad player? becouse he is rich, pretty, handsome, have nice wife good merriedge 3 kids ?) Sasuke = Bad ninja (why is Sasuke bad ninja, bad leader, bad at all ? becouse he is strongest, prettier then naruto and gangs, coolest, have good bloodline ?) Quote:
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And once again .. Suigetsu na rest of team r in his dept becouse he saved their lives .. They will be in his depth till they dont do what he want from them, die doing that, or DIE FOR HIM!! |
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2007-03-27, 13:41 | Link #72 |
Conspiracy Theorist
Join Date: Dec 2005
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There are many types of leaderships. I don't think that Sasuke would make a good squad leader, but he had shown he would make an excellent 'general' type of leader (the closest equivalent being a hokage) as he think of long term overall goals (ie/ seeing the big picture). Being trained under Orochimaru shows this further.
And before someone said something, Tsunade is a horrible Hokage as far as leadership goes once you get to practicality although as far as the series go, she is simply following the 'will of fire'. It is a myth that a good leader cares about his team. A good leader cares about the effectiveness of the team he leads, and this effectiveness can come about in a variety of ways.
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2007-03-27, 14:11 | Link #73 | ||
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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I don’t think this is true, I know, as it was stated twice in the Manga, and backed up by the fact that Sasuke was about to Kill Naruto and Sakura from a whim if it wasn’t for Orochimarus intervention.
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The goal is based on the team, the team is driven by the Leader because of the Visions and Goals, if the team goal becomes Killing Itachi and Sasuke isn’t willing to give it all for his team, and hence his goal, then he would give little or no motivation/inspiration to the team and thus compromising the completion of the goal and lost of focus. Quote:
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2007-03-27, 14:25 | Link #75 | ||
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Serbia
Age: 38
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And Suigetsu wanted to see how tough Sasuke is .. and he was amased, that Sasukes heart didnt skip a bit .. And Sasuke is willing to give all just to kill Itachi .. and his team will be prepared for that ! |
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2007-03-27, 14:34 | Link #76 | |||
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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And My age doesn’t have anything to do with this, but for your info, way older than you. Quote:
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2007-03-27, 14:43 | Link #77 | |||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Also, I've seen a couple posts mention Shikamaru as an example of exemplary leadership. The fact is, the only reason Shikamaru can be said to be a good leader is because we've seen him in action. Before the Sasuke Rescue arc, I could've said that Shikamaru would be a lousy leader because he was lazy, apathetic and unmotivated, all characteristics he demonstrated. But it turned out he's one of, if not the most capable leader seen so far. When all is said and done, it will depend on what kind of leader Kishi wants Sasuke to be. His character flaws aren't any kind of basis to form a conclusion that he won't be a good leader. |
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2007-03-27, 14:46 | Link #78 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Serbia
Age: 38
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If rly you r rly older then me then your brain is rly young.. Quote:
Like Haku/Zabuza .. Kimimaro/orochimaro .. And the guy with child on his back .. Do u get it now ? |
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2007-03-27, 15:10 | Link #79 | |||||||
Golden
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2007-03-27, 15:20 | Link #80 | ||||
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Location: Serbia
Age: 38
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