Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Auron Requies]

Originally Posted by tzia_n

try reading 1 every ten pages, it's not that hard and it'll save you a lot of trouble of having to go through the entire "debate" plus you'll get to see several versions of THE troll picture

plus you might find several interesting things like lelouch's fashion sense or the ginoXkallen debacle lol

I skimmed through it before I posted, and yeh I caught a bit of that. Didn't really mind the pairing, but it's not as good as the love triangle ambiguity between C.C and Kallen. Speaking of Gino, Tristan Divider is just awesome. Too bad it was cut in half for most of the episode.

Yeh, the mecha. I sorta loled when Kallen said 'you fight even though Guren's specs are higher' yes because disadvantage stopped Jesus-type characters ahaha. Lancelot Albion and Guren SEITEN 8-Elements are two beautiful mecha's, but exaggerated in my opinion. I missed the good old knightmare frame days when the battles looked more even, and roller blading mecha's was such an awesome way of moving. When they introduced the float system, well, I was afraid of mass-produce because we've all seen flying mechs, sorta boring, nothing new.

[tokiya]

I can't believe I'm registering here to post this but here goes.
Watching the entire 2 seasons so far revolving around only a singular main character Lelouch, I can fairly say all of us here have a fair and deep understanding of his character.

Having a great interest in psychology and doing psychoanalysis in my studies, I believe Lelouch falls between the INFJ and INTJ mbti personality types (being an idealist, quiet leader with a deeply woven complexity, mastermind and strategist)...wikipedia has a good enough resource.

Lelouch masterminding his own death doesn't sit easy with me, it just doesn't fit into his character profile built throughout the whole 2 seasons. Highly individualistic seen in his independent leadership style and constantly in pursuit of a vision, using reason and logic as his only absolute, such individuals value their own life in the highest regard, for they warrant and sanction their own existence. Such people can't kill themselves even if they want to.

For those thinking Lelouch is the type of person who would actually repent his 'sins' by killing himself for the greater good, I see no clear evidence of him feeling 'released' from his 'sins' before his 'dying' scene infront of nunally. There were flashbacks but I did not interpreted it as him feeling regret of his own actions, infact he seems to reiterate the point about his egoistical individualistic personality by saying 'I destroy worlds, I create worlds' , notice the dual emphasis on the word 'I' again. I'm clueless as to how some of us here sees his 'death' scene as a typical 'Now I'm going to die, I have done many wrongs in the past but this will right them all' ending.

Which ultimately leads me to my interpretation that he masterminded the whole thing and deceived everyone about his death. As far as I am concerned, Lelouch has his own set of moral beliefs and values that he strictly abides to, and he doesn't give a ratass about anything else as long as what he plans to achieve has been achieved. And I believe his end objective of world peace doesn't require his real death, just a death show to the rest of the world. Doesn't all the television broadcasts scenes of the execution parade remind us of him behaving like a playwright trying to stage something for the world to see again (happened so many times).

As a master player in chess, he should know that all pieces on the board can be sacrificed for the end objective of victory (all the deaths in the show), but since when does the king sacrifices himself?

I hope I have lent a different interpretation here as to why I think he's alive.

[Crimson7]

Lelouch is dead? So where did this pic come from? Anyone care to track it down?

Spoiler for :

Really... I don't know where this came from. Is it fake?

[tzia_n]

Originally Posted by Kagetsuchi

Btw how old is lulu in at the end of the show early 20's or 18-19?

hard to tell but seeing that he should roughly still be in highschool (even with the timeskips at worse just out of highschool) i'd say more towards 18-ish

[edgewalker00]

i dont know if this was posted already but some dude posted this and might as well copy it

[raffu]

I can see why many people see the final turn as perfectly satisfactory. The main plot revolving around Lulu's wish to build a new world has been gloriously completed with his death; Lulu is even redeemed by his GAR demise. From this point of view, there's no need for more; Lulu's survival could even lessen the emotional impact.

Anyway, I'm not fully satisfied for the simple reason that there's another, equally important plot in CG, namely C.C. and the (Code) Geass itself. I mean, look at the title: it's "Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion" after all... BOTH Lulu's rebellion and Geass. Lulu's part is done, OK. But the Code Geass part? It looks like they simply dropped the other MAJOR issue of the series.

Lulu being alive thanks to V2 or C2's code is the only way to resolve this issue - to be honest, is the only way they've provided us with till now. I'd be totally happy with Lulu dead (well, to be honest not totally happy... but I wouldn't bitch anyway), if they only gave me a conclusion for Geass/Code/C.C.'s wish... C.C.'s last line simply isn't enough.

UNLESS, C.C.'s role in the whole story is, in the end, just that of a spectator. She tried to end her own life through Lulu, but eventually she was the one being used, in turn, to accomplish his goals... in this case, C.C.'s amused and happy about this unexpected twist, which for once proved her wrong about the geass "curse". Not bad, Lulu, not bad.

[LastOrder]

Originally Posted by edgewalker00

i dont know if this was posted already but some dude posted this and might as well copy it

This. I agree.

[Auron Requies]

Originally Posted by tokiya

I can't believe I'm registering here to post this but here goes.
Watching the entire 2 seasons so far revolving around only a singular main character Lelouch, I can fairly say all of us here have a fair and deep understanding of his character.

Having a great interest in psychology and doing psychoanalysis in my studies, I believe Lelouch falls between the INFJ and INTP mbti personality types (being an idealist, quiet leader with a deeply woven complexity, mastermind and strategist)...wikipedia has a good enough resource.

Lelouch masterminding his own death doesn't sit easy with me, it just doesn't fit into his character profile built throughout the whole 2 seasons. Highly individualistic seen in his independent leadership style and constantly in pursuit of a vision, using reason and logic as his only absolute, such individuals value their own life in the highest regard, for they warrant and sanction their own existence. Such people can't kill themselves even if they want to.

For those thinking Lelouch is the type of person who would actually repent his 'sins' by killing himself for the greater good, I see no clear evidence of him feeling 'released' from his 'sins' before his 'dying' scene infront of nunally. There were flashbacks but I did not interpreted it as him feeling regret of his own actions, infact he seems to reiterate the point about his egoistical individualistic personality by saying 'I destroy worlds, I create worlds' , notice the dual emphasis on the word 'I' again. I'm clueless as to how some of us here sees his 'death' scene as a typical 'Now I'm going to die, I have done many wrongs in the past but this will right them all' ending.

Which ultimately leads me to my interpretation that he masterminded the whole thing and deceived everyone about his death. As far as I am concerned, Lelouch has his own set of moral beliefs and values that he strictly abides to, and he doesn't give a ratass about anything else as long as what he plans to achieve has been achieved. And I believe his end objective of world peace doesn't require his real death, just a death show to the rest of the world. Doesn't all the television broadcasts scenes of the execution parade remind us of him behaving like a playwright trying to stage something for the world to see again (happened so many times).

As a master player in chess, he should know that all pieces on the board can be sacrificed for the end objective of victory (all the deaths in the show), but since when does the king sacrifices himself?

I hope I have lent a different interpretation here as to why I think he's alive.

Wow. That's a nice analysis. Thing is, I remember clearly back in episode 1 (ahh season 1, good times) that Lelouch moved his king FIRST, stating if the King doesn't move, how will he lead his troops? Lelouch is human, just not the ordinary human ahaha. Cause he's, well different. I remember how people conpared him to Light. But see, all the bad actions he's done, now if he we're a heartless bastard, he wouldn't have cared and have taken over the world ages ago. Light on the other hand, would do the opposite.

[kira-sama]

just finished watching the last episode
the zero requiem really made me shocked REALLY
i watched it until i cried very hard and screaming even i post about lulu i will crying
it is too hard for me to know that lulu...LULU
i can't say anymore

but lulu will be on our heart code geass fans right?????

[Auron Requies]

Originally Posted by raffu

I can see why many people see the final turn as perfectly satisfactory. The main plot revolving around Lulu's wish to build a new world has been gloriously completed with his death; Lulu is even redeemed by his GAR demise. From this point of view, there's no need for more; Lulu's survival could even lessen the emotional impact.

Anyway, I'm not fully satisfied for the simple reason that there's another, equally important plot in CG, namely C.C. and the (Code) Geass itself. I mean, look at the title: it's "Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion" after all... BOTH Lulu's rebellion and Geass. Lulu's part is done, OK. But the Code Geass part? It looks like they simply dropped the other MAJOR issue of the series.

Lulu being alive thanks to V2 or C2's code is the only way to resolve this issue - to be honest, is the only way they've provided us with till now. I'd be totally happy with Lulu dead (well, to be honest not totally happy... but I wouldn't bitch anyway), if they only gave me a conclusion for Geass/Code/C.C.'s wish... C.C.'s last line simply isn't enough.

UNLESS, C.C.'s role in the whole story is, in the end, just that of a spectator. She tried to end her own life through Lulu, but eventually she was the one being used, in turn, to accomplish his goals... in this case, C.C.'s amused and happy about this unexpected twist, which for once proved her wrong about the geass "curse". Not bad, Lulu, not bad.

I was afraid someone would post something like this, cause its absolutely true XO BUt after reading this, I sorta remmbered after Nunally's survival revelation, what Suzaku mentioned. Suzaku: Sword C.C:Shield. It's a nice metaphor for them, as Suzaku just killed him. And IF he survived, C.C....you know, saved him? Ahh damn wishful thinking.

And if there needs to be another major plot. Make one. Hell I was just thinking what would happen if schniezel broke out of the Geass....fufufufu :]

I'll say it again: Damn wishful thinking XD

[dee32]

It was a good ending. I'm really going to miss watching Code Geass along with Macross F. I really am hoping for a Code Geass OVA. I'd like it taking place a year later seeing how everyone is doing.

I think Kallen and Rilvaz will be in college or working somewhere.
Will Kallen work with the new Zero?
Will Kallen get with Gino or are they just friends?
Oghi and Viletta baby should be born.
I hope its a boy and Oghi names him after his dead best friend Kallen's brother Naoto.
Cornelia and Guilford are living together. I'd like working with Nunnally in some function.
Lloyd, Rakshata, Cecile, and Nina working in a lab together.
I'd like to see Tohdoh and Chiba living together.
Will they remain with the BK or will they retire from fighting?
Will Tohdoh work with the new Zero?
I see CC living in a cabin somewhere.

[tzia_n]

Originally Posted by IIKII

In the last scene, i find it weird that the guy need to cover himself so much in such a sunny weather and i dont think that CC knows how to make a paper crane.

During the assassination, i am surprised that Orange wasnt upset at all after letting the fake zero to kill lulu. Maybe orange knows the True plan of lulu..

70% - lulu alive.

the cab driver might be allergic to the sun

Originally Posted by tokiya

I can't believe I'm registering here to post this but here goes.
Watching the entire 2 seasons so far revolving around only a singular main character Lelouch, I can fairly say all of us here have a fair and deep understanding of his character.

Having a great interest in psychology and doing psychoanalysis in my studies, I believe Lelouch falls between the INFJ and INTP mbti personality types (being an idealist, quiet leader with a deeply woven complexity, mastermind and strategist)...wikipedia has a good enough resource.

Lelouch masterminding his own death doesn't sit easy with me, it just doesn't fit into his character profile built throughout the whole 2 seasons. Highly individualistic seen in his independent leadership style and constantly in pursuit of a vision, using reason and logic as his only absolute, such individuals value their own life in the highest regard, for they warrant and sanction their own existence. Such people can't kill themselves even if they want to.

For those thinking Lelouch is the type of person who would actually repent his 'sins' by killing himself for the greater good, I see no clear evidence of him feeling 'released' from his 'sins' before his 'dying' scene infront of nunally. There were flashbacks but I did not interpreted it as him feeling regret of his own actions, infact he seems to reiterate the point about his egoistical individualistic personality by saying 'I destroy worlds, I create worlds' , notice the dual emphasis on the word 'I' again. I'm clueless as to how some of us here sees his 'death' scene as a typical 'Now I'm going to die, I have done many wrongs in the past but this will right them all' ending.

Which ultimately leads me to my interpretation that he masterminded the whole thing and deceived everyone about his death. As far as I am concerned, Lelouch has his own set of moral beliefs and values that he strictly abides to, and he doesn't give a ratass about anything else as long as what he plans to achieve has been achieved. And I believe his end objective of world peace doesn't require his real death, just a death show to the rest of the world. Doesn't all the television broadcasts scenes of the execution parade remind us of him behaving like a playwright trying to stage something for the world to see again (happened so many times).

As a master player in chess, he should know that all pieces on the board can be sacrificed for the end objective of victory (all the deaths in the show), but since when does the king sacrifices himself?

I hope I have lent a different interpretation here as to why I think he's alive.

i think he's more of between INTJ or INFJ. to me he seems solid as a judging character.

remember that lelouch's philosophy in chess is that the king should move so the pawns will follow. so even his chess strategy isn't a protect the king at all cost

i dont think lelouch is as egotistical as you make it seem to be. i get the feeling that while he doesnt see his death as repentance for his "sins", i think he meant it more as a continuation to carry his "sins"

though i agree that the effect he wanted can be achieved with a fake death. deep down inside i wish it was a fake death, but that's just me wishing.

frankly speaking, i think lelouch himself wanted to die. it's like to finally rest from all the madness he went through

Originally Posted by Crimson7

Lelouch is dead? So where did this pic come from? Anyone care to track it down?

Spoiler for :

Really... I don't know where this came from. Is it fake?

probably fan made wallpaper

[Traece]

Actually I really like where all this discussion as gone. In all honesty I never actually thought that Lelouch could possibly be the one to posess the Code for some reason.

I suppose there's a good chance of that. If memory serves, Charles in one last strike does grab Lelouch by the neck just before he dies. Correct?

So thus, it could be said very easily that Lelouch has had the Code all along, but kept his Geass somehow. Though the problem with that is that C.C. lost hers when she got the Code, and Charles did as well. So, how would he be the one to keep it?

Then again, C.C. was the one that gave him Geass, and he apparently got the Code from Charles. So all in all, that sort of answers my own question.

This part is important: I re-watched the ending scene of C.C. and the haycart driver... I can EASILY understand why people think he's Lelouch. They try very hard to hide it, and I think under normal circumstances you would pass the driver off as being some random man giving a pretty young girl a ride in his... er... cart (obviously he doesn't know how to show off to the ladies ). However, his face is hidden, and the camera pans up on the left side of his head, not allowing you to see his face, just the edge of his covering. Then it shows C.C. and yeah, that's pretty much how it ends except for the fact that she's talking to herself loud enough for the driver to hear, and then says Lelouch's name.

So going by that, I'd say he's still alive. I never really thought about it until I read in here. I was so ready to think that he was all world of C-ified.

[tzia_n]

Originally Posted by edgewalker00

i dont know if this was posted already but some dude posted this and might as well copy it

snip

for the love of god, please refrain from posting second hand statements that simple states speculation and treats them as facts. we hardly know anything about the mechanics of geass and that's the truth. plus we have enough first hand posts like that

and please put them inside spoiler tags, the picture is like screaming

[patnam]

Originally Posted by dee32

It was a good ending. I'm really going to miss watching Code Geass along with Macross F. I really am hoping for a Code Geass OVA. I'd like it taking place a year later seeing how everyone is doing.

I think Kallen and Rilvaz will be in college or working somewhere.
Will Kallen work with the new Zero?
Will Kallen get with Gino or are they just friends?
Oghi and Viletta baby should be born.
I hope its a boy and Oghi names him after his dead best friend Kallen's brother Naoto.
Cornelia and Guilford are living together. I'd like working with Nunnally in some function.
Lloyd, Rakshata, Cecile, and Nina working in a lab together.
I'd like to see Tohdoh and Chiba living together.
Will they remain with the BK or will they retire from fighting?
Will Tohdoh work with the new Zero?
I see CC living in a cabin somewhere.

Much like 'Final Plus'?

[Auron Requies]

Originally Posted by Traece

Actually I really like where all this discussion as gone. In all honesty I never actually thought that Lelouch could possibly be the one to posess the Code for some reason.

I suppose there's a good chance of that. If memory serves, Charles in one last strike does grab Lelouch by the neck just before he dies. Correct?

So thus, it could be said very easily that Lelouch has had the Code all along, but kept his Geass somehow. Though the problem with that is that C.C. lost hers when she got the Code, and Charles did as well. So, how would he be the one to keep it?

Then again, C.C. was the one that gave him Geass, and he apparently got the Code from Charles. So all in all, that sort of answers my own question.

This part is important: I re-watched the ending scene of C.C. and the haycart driver... I can EASILY understand why people think he's Lelouch. They try very hard to hide it, and I think under normal circumstances you would pass the driver off as being some random man giving a pretty young girl a ride in his... er... cart (obviously he doesn't know how to show off to the ladies ). However, his face is hidden, and the camera pans up on the left side of his head, not allowing you to see his face, just the edge of his covering. Then it shows C.C. and yeah, that's pretty much how it ends except for the fact that she's talking to herself loud enough for the driver to hear, and then says Lelouch's name.

So going by that, I'd say he's still alive. I never really thought about it until I read in here. I was so ready to think that he was all world of C-ified.

-Man I'm starting to remember other stuff I should ahve mentioned. Everyone going on about the Nunnally touching Lelouch and getting a memory zap thing, it made me remmeber Suzaku back at season 1, being able to 'sense' and 'see' the presence of C.C inside the Gawain. They never really showed that, what was up with that? I've read on the code geass wiki's that brittania had people known as "irregular" maybe this was part of the project?

And like I said, the properties of the Code, was never explored enough in the season. Dammit Sunrise XO

[tokiya]

Originally Posted by tzia_n

i think he's more of between INTJ or INFJ

yea I hit a typo, masterminds and strategists belong to the INFJ

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Auron Requies

Its gonna be quite hard for Anya to get some dude to get used to the orange farm, the orange fruits, the orange smell and an adoptive father whose obsessed with oranges :]

Am I the only one who saw that scene and didn't think "father", but "lolicon"?

Originally Posted by Kagetsuchi

Btw how old is lulu in at the end of the show early 20's or 18-19?

Third year high school, so, 18.

Originally Posted by IIKII

In the last scene, i find it weird that the guy need to cover himself so much in such a sunny weather and i dont think that CC knows how to make a paper crane.

Nunnally taught her. Or maybe she knew before. Isn't it what they were doing when Lelouch walked in on them?

During the assassination, i am surprised that Orange wasnt upset at all after letting the fake zero to kill lulu. Maybe orange knows the True plan of lulu..

It's pretty obvious he knew it was part of Lelouch's plan. And since it was, he could only support it.

Originally Posted by tokiya

I can't believe I'm registering here to post this but here goes.
Watching the entire 2 seasons so far revolving around only a singular main character Lelouch, I can fairly say all of us here have a fair and deep understanding of his character.

Having a great interest in psychology and doing psychoanalysis in my studies, I believe Lelouch falls between the INFJ and INTJ mbti personality types (being an idealist, quiet leader with a deeply woven complexity, mastermind and strategist)...wikipedia has a good enough resource.

Lelouch masterminding his own death doesn't sit easy with me, it just doesn't fit into his character profile built throughout the whole 2 seasons. Highly individualistic seen in his independent leadership style and constantly in pursuit of a vision, using reason and logic as his only absolute, such individuals value their own life in the highest regard, for they warrant and sanction their own existence. Such people can't kill themselves even if they want to.

To Lelouch, his life was a means, not an end. "The only ones allowed to shoot are those who are ready to be shot." As he demonstrated by turning a gun on himself to convince CC, or by strapping a bomb to his chest, he's not above using suicidal tactics to get his way.

For those thinking Lelouch is the type of person who would actually repent his 'sins' by killing himself for the greater good, I see no clear evidence of him feeling 'released' from his 'sins' before his 'dying' scene infront of nunally. There were flashbacks but I did not interpreted it as him feeling regret of his own actions, infact he seems to reiterate the point about his egoistical individualistic personality by saying 'I destroy worlds, I create worlds' , notice the dual emphasis on the word 'I' again. I'm clueless as to how some of us here sees his 'death' scene as a typical 'Now I'm going to die, I have done many wrongs in the past but this will right them all' ending.

I think he did feel guilty. But he wasn't really into repentance. He wanted to change the world, and he did, that's all.

Which ultimately leads me to my interpretation that he masterminded the whole thing and deceived everyone about his death. As far as I am concerned, Lelouch has his own set of moral beliefs and values that he strictly abides to, and he doesn't give a ratass about anything else as long as what he plans to achieve has been achieved. And I believe his end objective of world peace doesn't require his real death, just a death show to the rest of the world. Doesn't all the television broadcasts scenes of the execution parade remind us of him behaving like a playwright trying to stage something for the world to see again (happened so many times).

As a master player in chess, he should know that all pieces on the board can be sacrificed for the end objective of victory (all the deaths in the show), but since when does the king sacrifices himself?

Since Lelouch became king. In his version of "chess", if a king has the right to sacrifice others, it's because he's willing to sacrifice himself - as he more or less told Kaguya.

Originally Posted by Traece

Actually I really like where all this discussion as gone. In all honesty I never actually thought that Lelouch could possibly be the one to posess the Code for some reason.

I suppose there's a good chance of that. If memory serves, Charles in one last strike does grab Lelouch by the neck just before he dies. Correct?

So thus, it could be said very easily that Lelouch has had the Code all along, but kept his Geass somehow. Though the problem with that is that C.C. lost hers when she got the Code, and Charles did as well. So, how would he be the one to keep it?

Then again, C.C. was the one that gave him Geass, and he apparently got the Code from Charles. So all in all, that sort of answers my own question.

Could be that. Or maybe the loss of geass occurs only when the code activates, at the first death.

[tzia_n]

Originally Posted by Traece

Actually I really like where all this discussion as gone. In all honesty I never actually thought that Lelouch could possibly be the one to posess the Code for some reason.

I suppose there's a good chance of that. If memory serves, Charles in one last strike does grab Lelouch by the neck just before he dies. Correct?

So thus, it could be said very easily that Lelouch has had the Code all along, but kept his Geass somehow. Though the problem with that is that C.C. lost hers when she got the Code, and Charles did as well. So, how would he be the one to keep it?

Then again, C.C. was the one that gave him Geass, and he apparently got the Code from Charles. So all in all, that sort of answers my own question.

This part is important: I re-watched the ending scene of C.C. and the haycart driver... I can EASILY understand why people think he's Lelouch. They try very hard to hide it, and I think under normal circumstances you would pass the driver off as being some random man giving a pretty young girl a ride in his... er... cart (obviously he doesn't know how to show off to the ladies ). However, his face is hidden, and the camera pans up on the left side of his head, not allowing you to see his face, just the edge of his covering. Then it shows C.C. and yeah, that's pretty much how it ends except for the fact that she's talking to herself loud enough for the driver to hear, and then says Lelouch's name.

So going by that, I'd say he's still alive. I never really thought about it until I read in here. I was so ready to think that he was all world of C-ified.

yeah, that's what has been fueling the speculations. but some people are making it the end all and be all of things then concluding that lelouch is DEFINITELY alive when it does not follow. sure there is a decent chance he's alive, just as well a decent chance that he stays dead. and just as well a decent chance he's dead and will eventually resurrect

ok i'll take a break for now, and watch the episode myself, looking forward to lelouch's fashion sense

[dee32]

What happen to Sayoko after the prison scene? I thought she would be in the scene where Empress Nunnally met Prime Minister Oghi or she would have been working on the farm with Anya and Jeremiah. Hopefully if there is a OVA it will clear up what happen to her.