Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[RedWing]

Originally Posted by equinox822

What supports the idea that Lelouch has the Code and that it was no destroyed/devoured by the World of C is the fact that the geasses Charles had placed on Nunnally and Anya still held their effect. Geass draws its power from the Code, and had the Code been destroyed, the Geasses would have faded. That is why Charles’ Code still exists, now in Lelouch.

An assumption you are presenting as a fact.

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by RedWing

I was talking about the theory that CODE bearers had the ability to transfer memories. This has no real basis in the show. All the times when people have been shown something it was in black and white. The only other time is when C.C removed the seal that she placed on his memories. That was not a memory transfer.

Seal? Charles gave Lelouch new memories with his Geass. The geass isn't capable of casting seals on anyone. Only rewriting their memories as they see fit. C.C. seemed to show Lelouch his old memories. That's the only thing that would make sense, considering she has shown people memories in the past.

[Jarmel]

Anyone know when the charts on the official Geass website gets updated?

[edgewalker00]

Originally Posted by equinox822

Re-read this. The Code activates upon death.

Spoiler:

C.C. possesses the Code, which grants her immortality as well as other abilities, such as forming contracts to grant people the power known as Geass. Hers is not the only Code, as V.V. originally possessed one, later taken from him by Charles.
The Code Charles possessed until Episode 21 was taken by Lelouch either accidentally or on purpose, when Charles throttled him as he was about to vanish, devoured by the World of C.
However, Lelouch still possesses Geass, even after gaining the supposed Code. Why? Two possible reasons. Either the Geass remains until the Code is first activated, upon death, or Lelouch was the first one to achieve the “Code Geass,” having received his Geass power from C.C. whilst possessing a different Code from hers, V.V.’s.
What supports the idea that Lelouch has the Code and that it was no destroyed/devoured by the World of C is the fact that the geasses Charles had placed on Nunnally and Anya still held their effect. Geass draws its power from the Code, and had the Code been destroyed, the Geasses would have faded. That is why Charles’ Code still exists, now in Lelouch.
The Code is possibly located on his neck where Charles held him, or it appears on his palm when it activates upon his first death, obscured by blood from the wound in his chest.
When Nunnally touches him, she sees a glimpse of his memories, just as Lelouch did when he touched C.C. back in Narita. The reason for this is that the Code is activating for the first time, Lelouch possibly being unaware of this and unable to control what is shown unlike C.C. who forced shocking imagery into Suzaku’s mind.
As we see the memories flash by, we hear a sound effect, similar to the one whenever geass is used, though not the exact same, regardless confirming that a memory transfer is indeed what is happening. This is one of the main points that dictates why Lelouch is still alive.
Later on, in the ending, we see the cart driver, whose features are conveniently masked to cover any traces that might allow us to identify him as Lelouch, which makes perfect sense. Lelouch was the hated Demon King who seized control over the entire world, keeping everyone in check by threats of FLEIJA and so forth. It wouldn’t do well for someone to recognize him on the country-side.
The cameraplay in this scene is also an obvious indicator, they wouldn’t have gone to such extents to mask the features of a random peasant. Also, 2-3 frames of the animation show what appears to black hair under the hood and the hat, further supporting the idea that he is indeed Lelouch.
Finally, C.C. addressing Lelouch and tilting her head slightly upwards shows that she was indeed addressing the driver. This is pretty much self-explanatory. It’s also clear that C.C. would not have been as happy as she was had Lelouch truly died.
Therefore, with these solid facts, we deduce that Lelouch is alive, living out a secluded life, either traversing the countryside with C.C. or living with Jeremiah and Anya on their plantation.

we cant say this is final but its a good idea nonetheless...

still im beginning to agree with tzia_n that lelouch's remains are in that bag

[RedWing]

Originally Posted by Hiku

Seal? Charles gave Lelouch new memories with his Geass. C.C. seemed to show Lelouch his old memories. Also, those memory flashes were not always in black and white.

I am preeeety sure that it was revealed in one of those magazines that it was a seal.

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Anyone know when the charts on the official Geass website gets updated?

I could see them not doing it for a couple of weeks just to drive us insane until after a potential interview with the producers or something... or worst, if the DVD releases months from now give new information. ><

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by RedWing

I was talking about the theory that CODE bearers had the ability to transfer memories. This has no real basis in the show. All the times when people have been shown something it was in black and white. The only other time is when C.C removed the seal that she placed on his memories. That was not a memory transfer.

Ahh, last I remember Anya got color imagery in her encounter with C.C when they collided during Turn 11 >_>

[Jarmel]

I thought they did the day after the show aired. So don't we get the update today?

[SnEptUne]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

He's got Shniezel under his service

Doesn't Shniezel knows Leouch is Zero? In that case, when Leouch is dead, Shniezel's geass will no longer works, would it? Besides, from Nully's case, it can be deduce that if the caster is dead, the effect of the geass will diminish. So in the end, it will become Shniezel's world, right?

And I don't know why Leouch's death is neccessary. He could have just convinced people that he will be a good king (he can agree to the united nations's require to have only 20% of voting right, etc...). I don't see how having Nully as the queen will make it any different than Leouch if no one hate him.

Although I can see where democracy will fail, in the story, democracy clearly works fine, so they don't even need a king or queen.

[DragoonKain3]

A lie detector is just that... something that can discern lies. What it cannot do is discern the past. All it can do is answer the question 'Is this person lying' with a response of either 'No s/he isn't' and 'Yes, s/he is'. Because really now, if Nunally can do more than that, then she should've figured out her brother was Zero in S1.

People also bring up the point that Nunally might have figure out what Lelouche has planned. But one of the images brought up was the fight in C's world, which has NOTHING to do with the current plan of Lelouche sacrificing himself. So how did Nunally figure this out 'just from looking at Lelouche's face with no regret'? Simple.. she couldn't unless some outside factor gave her those images.

(And that's not going into how Kallen figured out Lelouche's plan just from Zero's appearance, and she is NOT given a flashback. So why did Nunally receive one if she arrived to the same conclusion as Kallen, in the same fashion as Kallen deduced (aka. by herself)? )

And IIRC, Lelouche wasn't frolicking and screaming when he learned about CC's true name back in season 1. So a peaceful exchange of memories is entirely possible, as there's precedent for it.

Originally Posted by tzia_n

have you seen lulu with the code? i think no one has so its just a speculation

Speculation: Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture (aka. blind guessing) or supposition (doing the what if scenario).

And as far as Lulu being alive is concerned, people have provided real canon evidence as to how that might come to fruition. It is neither them making stuff up by blind guessing (like some people were just throwing theories with no basis in canon in regards to Zero Requiem before), or are they doing a what if scenario (for example, trying to figure out what Kallen's gumline was supposed to be). Thus it is not 'specualtion', it's a very educated detective conclusion derived from what pieces of the puzzle we are given in canon.

In the realm of fiction, there are three levels: explicit, implicit, and symbolic. Just because it isn't explicit doesn't mean it's speculation; all it means its just up to interpretation. But considering there's a mountain of evidence that is for Lelouche's survival with little to nothing going against it, we should arrive to the same conclusion: Lelouche survived.

Really, achieving a conclusion based on implicit/symbolic evidence is much akin to a judgement in the court of law built upon circumstancial evidence. One piece of evidence like that doesn't amount to much, but after a certain point, we can only arrive at one conclusion beyond the shadow of a doubt. Nothing speculative about that, and it is perfectly acceptable.

[pilipok]

Originally Posted by Kagetsuchi

Spoiler for Spoiler:

I wanna believe lulu is dead....

/discuss

les face it the bag is full of

Spoiler for geass:

PIZZA

she is CC btw
u cant get pizza in the country side
unless u fedex it or DHL it

[edgewalker00]

it's amusing how this thread turned from

"what a shitty/good end"

to

"lelouch is dead/alive"


to

"the mysteries of geass"

to

"zero is not suzaku"

to

"lulu is with jeremiah in the orange farm "

to

"lulu is on his way to australia in a bag"

all the while discussing the geass issues in between...

i wonder how this would turn up after 23 more pages?

[RedWing]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Ahh, last I remember Anya got color imagery in her encounter with C.C when they collided during Turn 11 >_>

That wasn't a memory transfer. Are you saying it was?

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by SnEptUne

Doesn't Shniezel knows Leouch is Zero? In that case, when Leouch is dead, Shniezel's geass will no longer works, would it? Beside, from Nully's case, it can be deduced that if the caster is dead, the effect of the geass will diminish. So in the end, it will become Shniezel's world, right?

No no, Lelouch explains this, Schneizel's Geass was all about serving Zero, not specifically Lelouch. If Zero suddenly appears then on that basis he would follow the person who best fits the depiction, thus becoming Suzaku's butler as we see later, or so said Lelouch anyway

Originally Posted by RedWing

That wasn't a memory transfer. Are you saying it was?

C.C saw it didn't she?

[Alchemist007]

I forgot which ep it was, but god damn they shoved pizza hut down our throats before it all ended.

[Swordz]

Wow... This ending really reminds me of

Spoiler for Anime:

X Clamp

and I believe that lelouch is really dead.... despite of how much I dont want that to happen....
otherwise suzaku would be really2 weird to cry when he stab lelouch....

I wonder what had really happened between 'pudding' earl and lakasha?

Thats all aside...
I think this is a really good anime...
Tragic ending... but hey... people would die eventually anyway..........

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Don't bullshit me Orga, it was right there right in front of you and in the specific sequence I just recited it in. I'm not making anything up, you are and you're failing to keep to the precedented example and process in which Nunnally displayed her 'ability'.

And here is the pot calling the kettle black. XD

Sorry, mine fits better than yours. YOU have too many unfounded points. I really don't. Is it so hard to get taht he is dead? Really now. It is like people still going on that "Spike didn't die!" in Cowboy Bebop. It is called denial.

And the hell do you need to listen to the voice? My examples were concerning the body, which is what real lie detectors do, hence the strapping of all sorts of instruments on top of a person to monitor their signs, and the same can be said of Nunnally too. Even the best of liars can't always hide the signs their body gives a way. And just because a lie detector can be fooled doesn't always mean it is, otherwise they wouldn't be in use at all if that was the case, and the same can once again be applied to Nunnally >_>

I know, but not everyone is cool under pressure like Romeyer seems to be.

But nonetheless, its not keeping with the procedure that she did before in order to read Rommyer, which once again is in keeping with abilities the blind have been able to exhibit before in terms of telling whether or not a person is lying, not looking into the depths of his soul in such clarity and detail which once again has not been exhibited before with Nunnally <_<

How about no? We really don't know how it works after all, but when she asked Romeyer she was able to tell she was lying. And here she was able to tell Lelouch was lying. We just never got the details of how it worked. When she asked Romeyer to repeat herself, perhaps the thought has to be in the front of their mind. We know that is exactly what Lelouch thought right before he was stabbed after all.

And seriously, what clarity? A couple quick images going by the screen? I am confident that she didn't see what he saw when Lelouch's life was flashing before him and that Lelouch himself was just seeing that.

How many on-screen 'deaths' have we had up to this point and people showing up the next episode still alive as ever? Especially in a show with immortality of all things

Guilford was never shown engulfed by FLEIA. Not on screen. Nunnally was not shown engulfed by FLEIA. Not on screen. Cornelia was shot on screen... but most of the bullets missed. Probable survival.

Now... lets look at actual deaths shall we? Euphemia was shot and died on screen. Didn't come back. Shirley was shot and died on screen. Didn't come back. Rolo had cardiac arrest and died on screen. Didn't come back. Deithard was shot and died on screen. Didn't come back. I could bring up minor characters like Bismarck, Kewell, Darlton, Mao, etc. all of which died on screen and didn't come back.

Lelouch, died on screen. No indication he came back. At all. Unless you count over-analyzing with limited to no proof on your part that is.

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by Swordz

Wow... This ending really reminds me of

Spoiler for Anime:

X Clamp

and I believe that lelouch is really dead.... despite of how much I dont want that to happen....
otherwise suzaku would be really2 weird to cry when he stab lelouch....

I wonder what had really happened between 'pudding' earl and lakasha?

Thats all aside...
I think this is a really good anime...
Tragic ending... but hey... people would die eventually anyway..........

well...not if he's immortal (just refering to L.L.)

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by RedWing

That wasn't a memory transfer. Are you saying it was?

How the heck is that not a memory transfer? I mean seriously, if I somehow see someone else's past, that's their memory being transfered to me.

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by RedWing

I am preeeety sure that it was revealed in one of those magazines that it was a seal.

I suppose you could call it "sealing", but it wasn't a different sealing ability. At least not by the definition of the Geass power that we have been given. It rewrites memories. Upon doing so, Charles "sealed away" Lelouch old memories you could say. But it was done in the same way that Lelouch rewrites memories. If Charles had a different power, the anime would have told us so. But Lelouch clearly stated that he has the same Geass power as himself. It's not an extra ability of the Geass. It was simply rewriting his memories, as Lelouch does all the time.

And you said it's always in black and white.



Not really.