Character Discussion - C.C

[Utau]

Originally Posted by Narona

It would be so great (for me) if she intends to die but then Lelouch reaches her and says her name at the last second and saves her *____* *dreaming*

i will worship CG if that so ever happen

too bad C.C. shielded Lelouch from Kallen's melt blast or whatever that is that was suppose to kill him in my scenario

[Tael]

Originally Posted by Narona

It would be so great (for me) if she intends to die but then Lelouch reaches her and says her name at the last second and saves her *____* *dreaming*

It did not happen in 15 of this season, why would it happen now? Not to mention that it would be the exact same event, making the previous one redundant.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

People suffer loss and betrayal all the time. They heal.

I'm not saying CC's life was rosy. All I said was, it had its highs and lows. Sure, it wouldn't surprise me for an immortal to become emotionally withdrawn. But that doesn't translate as " horribly unhappy" to me.

Yeah, and then they get hit with it again later, and again, and again, and again. Sometimes life just gets tiring after awhile and I'm certainly no immortal or that old either, but even I find it does suck and suck pretty bad quite a bit, despite some distractions here and there like with C.C's obsession with Pizza

Meh, some people react differently to some situations, some people can't handle the pressure versus others, especially with no one to really share it with that you won't just lose later on. Were it all so simple, but alas it is not unfortunately

[Tael]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Yeah, and then they get hit with it again later, and again, and again, and again. Sometimes life just gets tiring after awhile and I'm certainly no immortal or that old either, but even I find it does suck and suck pretty bad quite a bit, despite some distractions here and there like with C.C's obsession with Pizza

Meh, some people react differently to some situations, some people can't handle the pressure versus others, especially with no one to really share it with that you won't just lose later on. Were it all so simple, but alas it is not unfortunately

It mustn't be counted out though, that while time can erase her happiness, it can also erase all her troubles. Therein her immortality is more of a reset-ability, than anything, allowing her to restart time and again. On one side that is a curse, on the other it is a great boon. In seasons one episode 11 she makes note of this, everyone whom she loved or whom she hated, and the reverse, had faded away with time and she had forgotten them.

... thinking on that, her words then would contradict them now. People had been nice to her in the past.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Tael

It mustn't be counted out though, that while time can erase her happiness, it can also erase all her troubles. Therein her immortality is more of a reset-ability, than anything, allowing her to restart time and again. On one side that is a curse, on the other it is a great boon. In seasons one episode 11 she makes note of this, everyone whom she loved or whom she hated, and the reverse, had faded away with time and she had forgotten them.

... thinking on that, her words then would contradict them now. People had been nice to her in the past.

Yeah, depends on how you deal with it, I find it understandable for a person to lean one way or another myself, I'd definitely applaud the person who manages to achieve the latter though, because as they often say its easier to see the negatives rather then positives as well

And then they died, while she watched. That you can't even remember all of them but just know that for a fact would seem like a downer at this stage. She never gets an stability except her life in this case, anyone she connects with will eventually leave her so I can kind of see where a person would find it pointless at some point

[Tael]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

And then they died, while she watched. That you can't even remember all of them but just know that for a fact would seem like a downer at this stage. She never gets an stability except her life in this case, anyone she connects with will eventually leave her so I can kind of see where a person would find it pointless at some point

My point more was in reference to the previous discussion in this thread, and that I agree with Ahn Minh (sp?). C.C. has had times of happiness in the past, her life has not been just misery. She is not Kafka.

Further, still, is that while she may know she had them in the past, she does not remember losing them as that would require remembering them, which she cannot do anymore. They are/were simply moments of happiness in her life, just as the people she hated were moments of misery. But her life was not just one or the other, it was both.

For your edit: That is true in anyone's life. Even normal people lose things, like friends, through time. That does not mean that they stop finding new ones. The only people who do such things are those who are afraid of being hurt. Which I find cowardly.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Tael

My point more was in reference to the previous discussion in this thread, and that I agree with Ahn Minh (sp?). C.C. has had times of happiness in the past, her life has not been just misery. She is not Kafka.

Further, still, is that while she may know she had them in the past, she does not remember losing them as that would require remembering them, which she cannot do anymore. They are/were simply moments of happiness in her life, just as the people she hated were moments of misery. But her life was not just one or the other, it was both.

For your edit: That is true in anyone's life. Even normal people lose things, like friends, through time. That does not mean that they stop finding new ones. The only people who do such things are those who are afraid of being hurt. Which I find cowardly.

I think by this point it just became, stagnate to her I suppose you could say. If someone just went about living all the time they'd have a hard time to find motivation to keep going at some point. Basically, it'd just gets tiring especially given general human mentality.

Meh, not like I don't understand where anyone is coming from on that matter either. You also kind of lose any meaning to do so because you'll also know they'll disappear as well someday and you'll forget about them and keep living, never knowing a constant other then the fact that you'll never really know. I mean, the cycle of just doing so becomes a thorn in your thoughts because you know your in a cycle and thus you wonder what exactly you're working for if things will never change? Like I said I'd find it admirable for a person to be able to overcome it, but I'd also see why it is so difficult for a person to do so in the first place. Its a tough barrier to work around is all I'm saying.

[Deliberation]

Originally Posted by Tael

My point more was in reference to the previous discussion in this thread, and that I agree with Ahn Minh (sp?). C.C. has had times of happiness in the past, her life has not been just misery. She is not Kafka.

Further, still, is that while she may know she had them in the past, she does not remember losing them as that would require remembering them, which she cannot do anymore. They are/were simply moments of happiness in her life, just as the people she hated were moments of misery. But her life was not just one or the other, it was both.

For your edit: That is true in anyone's life. Even normal people lose things, like friends, through time. That does not mean that they stop finding new ones. The only people who do such things are those who are afraid of being hurt. Which I find cowardly.

True like what you said she had both? But that doesn't change the fact that she had a horrible past. She's already numbed but that doesn't mean she actually healed from them?

If you think she is already healed from them.. why when lelouch touched her(when she wanted to save Lulu from Suzaku).. he "opened" her wounds up? Truth is her scar is still inside of her so deep. True she has a small share of happiness but it was hinted in Turn 15 she never really smiled happily EVER in her life.

It is in the rule of Geass that as long as you possess it you will be in solitude.

So I assume that whenever C.C almost obtain some happiness in her life it will always be snatched away right in front of her eyes. And seriously for ANYONE who managed to live for centuries. Like what Krimzon said. Given a human mentality.. it's really tiring .. 600 years is A LOT! Besides most of the characters in Code Geass barely even lived passed 40 (I think)!(except for some older men Charles, Marianne and V.V)

[cheesechan]

It's very longer time that I thinking to write this. Maybe I'm not the first who do it, and the same question has already posted, but... I'm not english, I'm italian (apropos, have compassion of my english, pleaaase T__T), so I didn't read the whole thread. However, even if episode 15 has revealed to us many thing about C.C.'s past, it's still unclear, for me, because they don't have explained all, not yet (but, maybe, they never to *sig*). Well, I have a question: in your opinion, when was C.C. born?
I tried to answer, at cost of going crazy XD
So, I had analysed the C.C.'s past flashback in first season, as well as the episode 15 of second season. Well, in second season we can see the people around C.C. wearing Medieval clothes... in particulary, notice the joker (a purely medieval figure) that is in the scene where C.C. is encircled by her "admirers". But in the first season, we can see a child too similar to little C.C., with a geass in her right eye, who was crying during a war. We can also see a rudimental panzer's archetype, that certainly wasn't exist in Medioevo. So, when was C.C. born? Maybe, in a first time the autors wanted she in a more recent epoca, and then had they changed idea? Or the getup of medieval people in CG isn't the same of us past's people? Or the child in first season didn't was C.C.? But, if is so, who was?

Now, you have still hope that they will never reveal this? I'd believe it, I love C.C. and want to know all about her

All Hail C.C. <333

P.s.: tanti calorosi saluti dall'Italiaaaa~ ciao ciao ^ò^

[Dream_Traveller]

600 years ago.

[cheesechan]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

600 years ago.

It's official?

[Theron]

If I recall correctly it was in Newtype at some point. So yeah, it's canon alright. Although I could be mistaken - donn't have any scans at thins time.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I think by this point it just became, stagnate to her I suppose you could say. If someone just went about living all the time they'd have a hard time to find motivation to keep going at some point. Basically, it'd just gets tiring especially given general human mentality.

Meh, not like I don't understand where anyone is coming from on that matter either. You also kind of lose any meaning to do so because you'll also know they'll disappear as well someday and you'll forget about them and keep living, never knowing a constant other then the fact that you'll never really know. I mean, the cycle of just doing so becomes a thorn in your thoughts because you know your in a cycle and thus you wonder what exactly you're working for if things will never change? Like I said I'd find it admirable for a person to be able to overcome it, but I'd also see why it is so difficult for a person to do so in the first place. Its a tough barrier to work around is all I'm saying.

That depends. I do not recall of many immortals in literature or mythology that simply grew bored of living. Everyone of them would find things to do because, as an immortal, you have an infinite number of possibilities. So it is not so much human nature, which is by nature (no pun intended) curious, to simply get bored of infinite possibilities. Humans get bored of things because they have a limited amount of time to do things they enjoy doing, as such things that they do not enjoy are boring and wasteful.

Your second argument runs aground in the philosophical sense of 'what is the point of anything when you'll die one day'. Friends and family are utterly meaningless if you only look at it from the point of view of the Grim Reaper. There is no meaning to them in death. C.C. is no different, and that sort of reasoning is poor at best because it is just an excuse that anyone, not just an immortal, can use.

Originally Posted by Deliberation

True like what you said she had both? But that doesn't change the fact that she had a horrible past. She's already numbed but that doesn't mean she actually healed from them?

I dislike it when people paint her as some Kafka figure. C.C. is not Kafka. Kafka had a horrible life, C.C. did not. Kafka had no choice in his life just becoming nothing, C.C. had choices. She's had times of happiness in the past, she's said it herself, and she's had times of unhappiness. But everything is cause and affect.

Originally Posted by Deliberation

If you think she is already healed from them.. why when lelouch touched her(when she wanted to save Lulu from Suzaku).. he "opened" her wounds up? Truth is her scar is still inside of her so deep. True she has a small share of happiness but it was hinted in Turn 15 she never really smiled happily EVER in her life.

I don't believe that she has never smiled happily in her life. What was her smile in Season episode 7 or episode 10? Was she just faking it? The entire idea that she has never ever been happy is more a baseless assumption than anything. If nothing more than looking at Kallen, C.C. has a friend that treats her as a fellow woman, not a monster. So either C.C. doesn't allow herself to have happiness, or she has had it. As for her wounds, as they say, people remember the sad over the happy, that's simply how it is. It hardly means her life has been all bad, or all good. She could have had one traumatic experience in her six hundred years of life and been jolly at every other moment in time but she'd only vividly remember the trauma. All that this goes to say, though, is that you are assuming on no grounds.

Originally Posted by Deliberation

It is in the rule of Geass that as long as you possess it you will be in solitude.

So I assume that whenever C.C almost obtain some happiness in her life it will always be snatched away right in front of her eyes. And seriously for ANYONE who managed to live for centuries. Like what Krimzon said. Given a human mentality.. it's really tiring .. 600 years is A LOT! Besides most of the characters in Code Geass barely even lived passed 40 (I think)!(except for some older men Charles, Marianne and V.V)

For the bearer of the Geass, yes. No one said anything like that for the code carrier.

[hero147]

Wasn't C.C. tortured several times in the past? Anyhow, I think it isn't so much the fact that C.C. didn't smile, its the fact that she didn't truly smile. When she smiles because of friends, its superficial, its a spur of the moment, but a true smile is when you find true happiness. I think CC is sad because of the fact that nothing in her life is constant, anybody she thought she could rely on always, wasn't there after they died...She developed relationships with people on quicksand.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by hero147

Wasn't C.C. tortured several times in the past? Anyhow, I think it isn't so much the fact that C.C. didn't smile, its the fact that she didn't truly smile. When she smiles because of friends, its superficial, its a spur of the moment, but a true smile is when you find true happiness. I think CC is sad because of the fact that nothing in her life is constant, anybody she thought she could rely on always, wasn't there after they died...She developed relationships with people on quicksand.

That's not a good thing. That means that C.C. does not treat her friends like anything more than objects to be taken for granted. I doubt you want to be putting her in such a light. Basically, look at it this way from how you worded it, if she is superficial to her friends then she will never find happiness because she does not treat her friends like friends. Those who are superficial to their friends, to not deserve friends. Further, real smiles are spur of the moment smiles, not something you contemplate for a decade.

[whiter]

Originally Posted by Tael

That's not a good thing. That means that C.C. does not treat her friends like anything more than objects to be taken for granted. I doubt you want to be putting her in such a light. Basically, look at it this way from how you worded it, if she is superficial to her friends then she will never find happiness because she does not treat her friends like friends. Those who are superficial to their friends, to not deserve friends. Further, real smiles are spur of the moment smiles, not something you contemplate for a decade.

How does that turn friends into objects in her eyes?
Happiness is different for each entity, one longs for love, one for money, on can even long for solitude to certain extent. We'r not even sure wether C.C has had any friends, Marianne was propably the closest one to her before Lelouch, yet it's quite hard to define what is friend. One would say friend is the one who guides you throught hardship, never leaving you behind or betraying you, unless it was nescessity. She never address anyone by using term that is even close to friend.
With the current information we posses no knowledge over this topic to define how she would have treated her friend, in case you assume she has had friends.

Furthermore, IIRC, it was said that Lelouch was the first/only one to show her (true) kindness.

Your defination for real smile is rather lacking as one can force a smile even in unhappines and hence it's not related to everyday smile at all. One can't find happiness by feeling unhappy, or atleast it goes against my logic. But it's quite hard to define where true smile comes from.
Maybe from experience that grants you ultimate happiness, such as finding love or something, and how long it lasts depends on the events.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Tael

That depends. I do not recall of many immortals in literature or mythology that simply grew bored of living. Everyone of them would find things to do because, as an immortal, you have an infinite number of possibilities. So it is not so much human nature, which is by nature (no pun intended) curious, to simply get bored of infinite possibilities. Humans get bored of things because they have a limited amount of time to do things they enjoy doing, as such things that they do not enjoy are boring and wasteful.

Well, in many of those mythologies they also had unlimited power to accompany that. Immortality comes with limits in its own way, you have all the time in the world to do things, but no direction or real goal in which to do so and nothing beyond just your life in this case. You can't rely on friends least they either reject/turn on you or they'll simply fade into dust later on. You have nothing to settle towards, the things you know at one point will change to the next. The pebble of the road in this case. To the rest of the world you're an abomination, or a means for their own greed as was the case with Clovis. I remember having a similar debate with Var at one point where he points that general depiction of immortality is rather viewed as more of a curse then anything else in Western schools of thought. I remember a book back when I was in grade school that mentioned the same thing, called "Tuck Everlasting" You could enjoy all the pleasures in the world, but you'd also endure all the horrors of it, and in the end you would still be completely separate from it as well. It is repetition that I think is the undoing of peoples motivation in this case and I can see why. We are pressed by our limited time to accomplish things in our lives, thus we come to value it more as well because we can lose it is the logic here. At the same time your 'condition' isn't something you can really broadcast, which also leaves with the infinite possibility of getting discovered and getting persecuted. Even if you do hide it for a moment you also have a barrier mentally that separates you from others.

Your second argument runs aground in the philosophical sense of 'what is the point of anything when you'll die one day'. Friends and family are utterly meaningless if you only look at it from the point of view of the Grim Reaper. There is no meaning to them in death. C.C. is no different, and that sort of reasoning is poor at best because it is just an excuse that anyone, not just an immortal, can use.

The point is achieving self-fulfillment in my views in regards to ones purpose towards his or her life. Its all they have in this world, and once that loses its meaning, then what? An immortal can very well make the case of being in the point of view of the Grim Reaper, because that is what they witness and endure the most as they watch the world go by. You have to have meaning in order to move forward, motivation, death can provide that incentive for one to live to the fullest. All I'm saying is that coping with such a situation doesn't seem nearly as easy as you're making it out to be, and in my view would take a very strong mentality to continue on such a course over and over again.

[Asleep]

Originally Posted by whiter

How does that turn friends into objects in her eyes?
Happiness is different for each entity, one longs for love, one for money, on can even long for solitude to certain extent. We'r not even sure wether C.C has had any friends, Marianne was propably the closest one to her before Lelouch, yet it's quite hard to define what is friend. One would say friend is the one who guides you throught hardship, never leaving you behind or betraying you, unless it was nescessity. She never address anyone by using term that is even close to friend.
With the current information we posses no knowledge over this topic to define how she would have treated her friend, in case you assume she has had friends.

I wonder how much of a friend Marianne was. She did want her to die and she was upset that she hadn't given up her code to Charles.

I think that is why C.C. is s cold and bitter all the time. I have rarely seen her act normal and those few times have been with Lelouch.

[lovecakecookies]

Honestly, they kind of made C.C's character inconsistent this season.. IMO of course.. in the first season, i was under the impression she hated living because she had to see the people she loved or those that were kind to her die.. (as she does say this to some extent) and then this season we learned in fact she was always hated and never had any type of love or whatever.. I think its just inconsistency on the writers part or they changed their minds or something..

C.C and Kallen are fairly close too, and you can tell she cares about her at least and i would say vice versa (when Kallen was captured, C.C was worried too, she gave those those rare faces of hers..)

[whiter]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

Honestly, they kind of made C.C's character inconsistent this season.. IMO of course.. in the first season, i was under the impression she hated living because she had to see the people she loved or those that were kind to her die.. (as she does say this to some extent) and then this season we learned in fact she was always hated and never had any type of love or whatever.. I think its just inconsistency on the writers part or they changed their minds or something..

C.C and Kallen are fairly close too, and you can tell she cares about her at least and i would say vice versa (when Kallen was captured, C.C was worried too, she gave those those rare faces of hers..)

Well, Kallen was playing quite big role in Lelouch plans as she was the ace pilot.
So naturally it would affect her as it would be harder for Lelouch to execute his wish/plan.
But well, you never know
I would say they share a bond, a bond close to being classmates, but I wouldn't say she is anything close to a real friend.