2013-01-12, 23:09 | Link #21 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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(I want to say first of all that this topic is indeed cyclic and has been done so many times before, so may not be long for this world...)
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The translation of text should hopefully match the character of the speaker and the tone of the spoken line. So when you're doing a dub, you have an opportunity to help influence/create the tone of a character. If someone is always light-hearted, chipper, and likes to use silly sentences/sayings all the time, then maybe you can use the "rub a dub dub" line and it might sound like something that character would reasonably say. It becomes part of the image of the character. But in subtitles, you can't really divorce the text on screen with the way the line is audibly delivered in the original language and the tone they carry throughout the rest of the show. Unless the translator is intimately familiar with the whole show (or the source material) it's extremely difficult from them to invent a "voicing" for the character that will make sense. So, generally speaking, it may be a good idea to be a bit more restrained on some of the more extreme interpretations/"localizations" of lines. That isn't to say that subs should be overly literal either, but you don't want there to be a clash between the voice you hear and the words you read, since that breaks the immersion. (One other thing I would say is that sometimes some of the people who translate/edit translations are not native English speakers, so in the process of trying to be clever and colloquial, they introduce sayings or mannerisms that aren't even natural in English, never mind a good translation of the line. So translation teams should always watch for this too. Ideally, you want to make sure that someone on the team is a native speaker of the target language, along with having someone who is a native speaker of the original language (or at least extremely fluent). In the middle is the potential for a great valley of inaccuracy on both sides.)
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2013-01-12, 23:20 | Link #22 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2012
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(I wonder why we're censored from referring to sub groups when we're all fully aware that they exist. We're openly talking about them right now. Is there a citation somewhere that says we can't make these references?
(Censoring anime discussion. This must be serious business we're dealing with here!) Last edited by Write; 2013-01-13 at 00:08. |
2013-01-12, 23:31 | Link #23 | ||
Me at work
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2013-01-12, 23:35 | Link #24 | |
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Also why should we learn japanese? It's the translator's job to do a proper translation, not ours. |
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2013-01-12, 23:44 | Link #25 | ||
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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On the topic of translation liberties, there's something I've been thinking: the honorifics (most prominently "senpai"), and name calling in general. Do you think that translating "XXX-senpai" as just "XXX" acceptable? How about "Mr/Mrs/Miss/Sir/Madam.XXX" for "XXX-sensei/san/sama"? Do you think that not-translating these honorifics means that the translator is trying to preserve the original meaning or just that he/she doesn't have more in-depth knowledge of the language being translated to? Personally, I think these are fine, though perhaps I may judge with a case by case basis. I'm asking because I currently have no idea how the fandom in general perceive these things. Quote:
Edit: oh, I missed that "for liberal translation" part. But my point is still the same, I think the watcher have some obligation to understand at least some technicality involved behind the work.
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2013-01-12, 23:54 | Link #27 |
The Power of One
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Earth
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I don't think translators note should really used. Of course, it's up to them if they want to write them in a blog post or whatever, but it's likely that many people won't even bother reading them.
That's not the problem though. The thing is that inserting translation notes would mean that there's the need to put one. However, if that the case, it means that the subs are either literal or have bad localization. To me, a good translation is a translation that conveys the same meaning, not the same words. If you're going to watch a comedy show with puns, you don't want to stick with the original line, but an English equivalent. Personally, as long as accuracy is preserved, I'd go with a more liberal one rather than a rigorously literal one.
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2013-01-13, 00:07 | Link #28 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Every once in a while, it becomes necessary for the translator to have to explain something, leave in some japanese, or wing it to something similar but not exactly what they said.
These instances can be puns or wordplay that just do not work in other languages. (There were several of these in a row in Azumanga Diaoh). Colloquialism that are funny or has a different meaning that what the works actually say in Japanese (or even just in some regions of Japan) that have no humorous meaning outside of said region (example from English "He kicked the bucket" = "the person died". This was used visually in "Its a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World". I know a couple that watched it in a Dutch theater with Dutch subtitles. They had grown up in the United State in their teens, so they knew what "kick the bucket" meant. So when that happened on screen they laughed. No one else laughed in the theater. The then, the guy that died's foot knocked over a bucket. So?) And finally the last things is status. Asian languages from what I understand have tonal aspects that mean different things depending on how it is said. The word is the same, but the way it is said is different. Add to this the various levels of formality in how one is addressed, and how some shows use that as plot twists or stages in relationships. (or someone never calls him x-chan, it is always x or x-san) Something like that might not be able to come across easily, or naturally, in the language the words are being translated into. Especially, if the style of laungue doesn't normally have people speaking formally to each other or the variation to so small that it doesn't warrent formal, but isn't enough for nickname territory.
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2013-01-13, 00:26 | Link #29 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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2013-01-13, 00:27 | Link #30 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
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Even stuff like sayings and proverbs, are they really that hard to understand given context?
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2013-01-13, 00:28 | Link #31 | |||||||
Also a Lolicon
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Translating names in general is hard, since a lot of information is conveyed in how you address someone that you really don't realize. Also, information that isn't conveyed is as important as information that is (example below). And most of the time it's hard to convert that information into a different language+culture that has it's own ways of addressing people that convey different additional information. Spoiler for Another:
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Unless you want to miss out on a lot of information that couldn't be translated properly, you either have a basic grasp of Japanese language and culture, or read translation notes. Quote:
If it is an airing series, a lot of the time we don't know if the information left out/added in is important, thus I think that warrants notes. Especially if its a mystery series or something, if the translation fails to convey information, or conveys extra information, that should be noted. Quote:
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As for comedy. I'm decidedly a fan of Japanese jokes, that is why I want to watch the original joke. If I wanted to watch American jokes, I would watch television. Quote:
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2013-01-13, 01:10 | Link #32 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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As a quasi-related point, one thing that annoys me a bit is when the translators aren't paying enough attention to notice the way lines are connected to themes, and when certain key lines are being repeated. I've even seen cases where an anime will show a flashback, and the line will be rendered in a different way than it was the first time (that changes the meaning somewhat) -- if it's a flashback, you'd better make sure it lines up! This is also why it's important to actually watch the anime you're translating and not just read a script file; otherwise, you could say something that doesn't in any way match what's on the screen due to a misinterpretation of the words (or an error in the transcribed script). Anyway, all this only goes to support your point that translation is hard.
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2013-01-13, 01:33 | Link #33 | |||
The Power of One
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Earth
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As for comedy, I am not saying that you should localize every single line, but that you should be able to laugh. The worst kind of thing you can do is having to explain a pun, because you just failed at making it enjoyable. Quote:
BTW, a more blatant example of a headache for a translator would be Utsuro No Hako to Zero no Maria. Spoiler for V2 or V3 spoiler:
The mere fact of adding a TL note sold the mystery, even though the translator is one of the gretest I know in BT.
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2013-01-14, 13:36 | Link #35 | |
Mmmm....
Join Date: Sep 2006
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A friend of mine works as a professional translator and she says where names are concerned you always use the name that's spoken, and you should never switch first/last names in the subtitles. Mind you, she also says that dvd subtitling pays so little that most experienced translators won't touch it. |
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