Medaka Box [Manga]

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by FFXFan13

Just because he can, doesn't mean he will. At this point, he needs to win so he will. It's pretty obvious he's not going to loose, so there's no tension anyway.

Actually, if Nisio chooses to troll us all, and have Zenkichi loose...

THAT would make alot of people seat up and take notice. Especially if he looses after a determined, dogged and often close series of fights, to factors beyond his control. Perhaps even through his Devil Style, which implicitly demands the MC to loose if he is up against too great a power disparity that not even wit can triumph instead. The sort of Power gap that'd force Nabeshima the Foul Queen to play dead, for example.

Of course, it also depends on whether Zenkichi's battles will serve a greater strategic purpose. Nisio could well troll us with epic and cool battles, then mock the necessity and use of such battles.

It also depends on what kind of tests of strength are involved. Not merely combat.

After all, the Election Arc did not boil down to a Battle of raw combat strength, in the end, despite what first impressions might have suggested at the beginning of the whole affair.

On another note, personally, I found Bloody Seven and much of the Student Council Arc interesting, but not suitable for a manga format- especially one with an action-shounen undertone. It felt like I was reading a LN instead.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by FFXFan13

Just because he can, doesn't mean he will. At this point, he needs to win so he will. It's pretty obvious he's not going to loose, so there's no tension anyway.

He doesn't have to win. Consiering he came with a team of 4 other people who are more than capable of taking the slack. Zenkichi doesn't even generally win not sure where you got that idea, he won against Munkata (though obviously if he it was a life or death battle he would have lost), lost against Medaka, drew at best against Kumagawa (through really he lost by default), lost against Medaka again and managed to "win" in a team battle with against Munkae (through he really almost lost again thanks to Kumagawa), his plot armour isn't particularily strong. Due to fact he's almost always at a major disadvantage.

Originally Posted by novalysis

Actually, if Nisio chooses to troll us all, and have Zenkichi loose...

THAT would make alot of people seat up and take notice.

Not really Zenkichi if you look at the manga does that such a great track record. He simply has interesting battles that most involve him getting fucked up hence then tension.

[Xiyon]

Originally Posted by FFXFan13

Seems pretty boring in my opinion, it's not like we don't already know who's gonna win the fight anyway. Zenkichi, despite his ability, does still have his plot armour.

If your going to have fights where the winner is obvious, then you might as well have the more fun characters on screen.

We'll see if Zen still has his 'plot armor'; we haven't seen him in a fight with Devil Style active yet. I don't see an instance where Zen ever wore plot armor, though...

In all of Zen's fights, he actually lost or at most, scored a draw.

Munakata could have outright killed him. Zen only survived because Munakata's not actually a killer, and that's not really plot armor; it's Munakata's character.

Medaka II destroyed Zenkichi when she finally got into the fight.

Zenkichi realized the only way to stop Kumagawa was a double suicide. Even then, he was unsuccessful in taking out Kumagawa. For this instance though, I wouldn't say it's plot armor but deus ex machina with Ajimu suddenly appearing to revive him (but then again, her existence was already hinted beforehand so...)

His only 'true' win was probably against Akune, but even then he took him by surprise when he was distracted by Medaka...

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Xiyon

We'll see if Zen still has his 'plot armor'; we haven't seen him in a fight with Devil Style active yet. I don't see an instance where Zen ever wore plot armor, though...

In all of Zen's fights, he actually lost or at most, scored a draw.

Munakata could have outright killed him. Zen only survived because Munakata's not actually a killer, and that's not really plot armor; it's Munakata's character.

Medaka II destroyed Zenkichi when she finally got into the fight.

Zenkichi realized the only way to stop Kumagawa was a double suicide. Even then, he was unsuccessful in taking out Kumagawa. For this instance though, I wouldn't say it's plot armor but deus ex machina with Ajimu suddenly appearing to revive him (but then again, her existence was already hinted beforehand so...)

His only 'true' win was probably against Akune, but even then he took him by surprise when he was distracted by Medaka...

The closest thing to plot armor Zen has is that he doesn't actually die (for obvious reasons), outside of that everything is fair game.

Looking at his track record it'd actually be more strange if he won an outright unerfed victory. Though he has been quite unlucky with his oponents outside of Munkata.

[FFXFan13]

Originally Posted by Xiyon

Zenkichi realized the only way to stop Kumagawa was a double suicide. Even then, he was unsuccessful in taking out Kumagawa. For this instance though, I wouldn't say it's plot armor but deus ex machina with Ajimu suddenly appearing to revive him (but then again, her existence was already hinted beforehand so...)

Techinically, Kumagawa was planning on bringing him back anyway, the actual Deus Ex Machina in that point, was him regaining the Eye sight that Kumagawa had already made nothing.

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

The closest thing to plot armor Zen has is that he doesn't actually die (for obvious reasons), outside of that everything is fair game.

If he lives when somebody else would have died, he has plot armour.

[Xiyon]

Originally Posted by FFXFan13

Just because he can, doesn't mean he will. At this point, he needs to win so he will. It's pretty obvious he's not going to loose, so there's no tension anyway.

He needs to win, but how will he win? He's still just a normal, after all. For all we know, Zen gets crippled at the end of this (pending Aoki Aka's haxx healing, anyways). Hell, maybe Zen's 'everyone run away' is another pre-planned deception.

On the other hand, Medaka copies other people and transforms into god mode. Kumagawa nullifies everything- even his own death, which is what makes battles interesting, anyway. The chance for dying, I mean. Anshin'in has quadrillion skills; we've seen how easily she trumped the fake suitors with just 600 of them. I don't know much about the two Shiranui's battle-strength so can't really say anything about them.

What I find interesting is that the Jokers actually lost (or are implied to have lost, anyway).

[FFXFan13]

Originally Posted by Xiyon

He needs to win, but how will he win? He's still just a normal, after all. For all we know, Zen gets crippled at the end of this (pending Aoki Aka's haxx healing, anyways). Hell, maybe Zen's 'everyone run away' is another pre-planned deception.

He's an abnormal, considering Parasite Eyes are an Abnormality, but if he's going to find the All Joker Team, then Sword girl needs to loose, which means, she's going to loose.

Originally Posted by Xiyon

On the other hand, Medaka copies other people and transforms into god mode. Kumagawa nullifies everything- even his own death, which is what makes battles interesting, anyway. The chance for dying, I mean. Anshin'in has quadrillion skills; we've seen how easily she trumped the fake suitors with just 600 of them. I don't know much about the two Shiranui's battle-strength so can't really say anything about them.

But as character's they're quite a bit more entertaining.

Originally Posted by Xiyon

What I find interesting is that the Jokers actually lost (or are implied to have lost, anyway).

Source?

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by FFXFan13

He's an abnormal, considering Parasite Eyes are an Abnormality, but if he's going to find the All Joker Team, then Sword girl needs to loose, which means, she's going to loose.

But as character's they're quite a bit more entertaining.

Source?

It's implied they got captured, precisely how, whether willing or otherwise is unknown. And like I said personal preferrences on characters aside their pretty terrible to base shounen battles around and so should be left out of them for the most part.

[Xiyon]

Originally Posted by FFXFan13

He's an abnormal, considering Parasite Eyes are an Abnormality, but if he's going to find the All Joker Team, then Sword girl needs to loose, which means, she's going to loose.

But as character's they're quite a bit more entertaining.

Source?

The fact that the feast is going on and Medaka's team is nowhere in sight? Unless Medaka struck a bargain, if Medaka's team won then we should be seeing her in a naked apron, Hansode drinking down a feast, etc. If I recall correctly, Medaka's team went in expecting to finish the feast on that same day.

Originally Posted by FFXFan13

Techinically, Kumagawa was planning on bringing him back anyway, the actual Deus Ex Machina in that point, was him regaining the Eye sight that Kumagawa had already made nothing.

If he lives when somebody else would have died, he has plot armour.

Like Kumagawa can do that when he couldn't even return Zenkichi's eyesight? I smell another lie from the lying liar.

Also, by your definition of plot armour, then Zen really doesn't have it. He was never in any danger in the first place, even in the viper pit.

[FFXFan13]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

It's implied they got captured, precisely how, whether willing or otherwise is unknown. And like I said personal preferrences on characters aside their pretty terrible to base shounen battles around and so should be left out of them for the most part.

But they're the most interesting characters!

Although, I'm beginning to hope this whole "Jet Black Wedding" thing, is just a hoax by her parents, to get her to come home for her Birthday or something.

Originally Posted by Xiyon

The fact that the feast is going on and Medaka's team is nowhere in sight? Unless Medaka struck a bargain, if Medaka's team won then we should be seeing her in a naked apron, Hansode drinking down a feast, etc. If I recall correctly, Medaka's team went in expecting to finish the feast on that same day.

Didn't they move to a different battle ground?

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Like Kumagawa can do that when he couldn't even return Zenkichi's eyesight? I smell another lie from the lying liar.

He couldn't bring his eyesight back, because it was already nothing. He could, however, bring Zenkichi back, by making his death nothing.

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Also, by your definition of plot armour, then Zen really doesn't have it. He was never in any danger in the first place, even in the viper pit.

Well, he wasn't supposed to be in danger in the viper pit.

[Randrak42]

Guys...personal preference is playing a big part in this discussion. Basically FFXFan13 has been shown to be a Kumagawa fan and not so much a Zen fan...so it is understandable that he wants to see the Jokers do all their epic shizz.

If you want to see epic one-shots and Joker fan service then of course you'll prefer to see them fight. But you know that unless there's some contrived excuse, then the Jokers losing is a hard pill to swallow.
There really is no tension in their fights only flashy moves. If they win, then it's taken as a given since they are so strong. If they lose then it's because of a BS reason, meaning most won't really be satisfied (and some will keep saying "If X didn't happen then they would have won" which is useless point to discuss)

On the SC side we have weak to strong characters but none of them godlike, or even close to it. There IS tension in their fights because you do not know the outcome. Will they win in a rough battle? Will it be an easy win? Will they draw? Will they lose easily? Will it be a close loss? Will the fight be interrupted?
Aside from Torai, who is new, we've seen these characters win and lose their fights.
And like it was said before, Zen's "plot armor" is a shitty one. It basically prevents his HP from dropping bellow 1, nothing else. He won in a fight once...and we've see that the guy that he beat could have mauled him had he be serious (look at how he butcher Kumagawa before he got All Fiction back and became godlike again). Zenkichi won't die (or stay dead)...that's pretty much what the plot armor tells us, not the outcome of fights.

Pretty much it, if you want epic shiny battles with predictable outcomes, then you'll want to see the Jokers fight.
If you want tension filled battles where the outcome is unpredictable then you'll want to see the SC fight.

...and sorry but watching the SC fight already beaten opponents is stupid....not even gonna gloss over that with understanding words...

[Sol Falling]

Heh. I dunno why people are already making assumptions about some sort of "formula" (shounen battling, chasing after the Jokers, etc.) anyway. Would Zenkichi's team taking down the suitors one by one while chasing after Medaka be interesting? I don't think so.

Rather, if you look at Nienami Namanie's dialogue "I am the suitor in charge of [Cutting]", I am seeing two suggestions: one, that the suitors are all working together; and two, that they each have specific roles. Moreso than merely "Cutting", Namanie appears to have been specifically left on the aircraft carrier to guard against stragglers and anticipate a search party's arrival. Under the assumption that at least on some level the Jokers are being confined and kept from contacting the outside world intentionally (given the lack of communication), it also seems obvious to me that several of the suitors should probably be at work securing the present location of the Jokers. Lastly I imagine at least one or two of the suitors directly engaging the Jokers in some form of negotiation (explaining why the Jokers have not forcefully broken their way out).

Kumagawa stated the previous chapter: Medaka's team has obtained their 6 wins, there is no reason for them to entertain the Black Wedding Feast any longer. Any strategem the real suitors must have devised probably involves both some measure of force (keeping Medaka's team there, and even isolated) and some measure of diplomacy. That Namanie was waiting for Zenkichi's team clearly implies that the suitors don't want any interference.

At this point, only two major questions are at the forefront: 1. what are the suitors really after? And 2. what is the true nature of the Kurokami (and related) family?

On Zenkichi's side, the central pivot for new development is actually precisely the nature of Torai, and how the Student Council has adapted with the advent of the new Flask Plan.

Zenkichi's team's role/perspective right now is similar to the audience's in that his principle objective is to unravel these mysteries and obtain that information. But the suitor team themselves, currently must primarily have their hands tied dealing with the Joker team, instead of engaging in minor skirmishes with Zenkichi. There are no major suggestions that this coming arc must have a formulaic, "one opponent at a time" shounen structure. Rather, I find it highly unlikely that all of the suitors "roles" will even be battle-oriented.

What I'm thinking is that this arc will develop like a suspense thriller, with Zenkichi's team acquiring clues/making inferences while the suitor team tries to delay them while in a race against time towards their real objective. Accordingly, fighting/defeating enemies will not be a central focus.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Heh. I dunno why people are already making assumptions about some sort of "formula" (shounen battling, chasing after the Jokers, etc.) anyway. Would Zenkichi's team taking down the suitors one by one while chasing after Medaka be interesting? I don't think so.

Rather, if you look at Nienami Namanie's dialogue "I am the suitor in charge of [Cutting]", I am seeing two suggestions: one, that the suitors are all working together; and two, that they each have specific roles. Moreso than merely "Cutting", Namanie appears to have been specifically left on the aircraft carrier to guard against stragglers and anticipate a search party's arrival. Under the assumption that at least on some level the Jokers are being confined and kept from contacting the outside world intentionally (given the lack of communication), it also seems obvious to me that several of the suitors should probably be at work securing the present location of the Jokers. Lastly I imagine at least one or two of the suitors directly engaging the Jokers in some form of negotiation (explaining why the Jokers have not forcefully broken their way out).

Kumagawa stated the previous chapter: Medaka's team has obtained their 6 wins, there is no reason for them to entertain the Black Wedding Feast any longer. Any strategem the real suitors must have devised probably involves both some measure of force (keeping Medaka's team there, and even isolated) and some measure of diplomacy. That Namanie was waiting for Zenkichi's team clearly implies that the suitors don't want any interference.

At this point, only two major questions are at the forefront: 1. what are the suitors really after? And 2. what is the true nature of the Kurokami (and related) family?

On Zenkichi's side, the central pivot for new development is actually precisely the nature of Torai, and how the Student Council has adapted with the advent of the new Flask Plan.

Zenkichi's team's role/perspective right now is similar to the audience's in that his principle objective is to unravel these mysteries and obtain that information. But the suitor team themselves, currently must primarily have their hands tied dealing with the Joker team, instead of engaging in minor skirmishes with Zenkichi. There are no major suggestions that this coming arc must have a formulaic, "one opponent at a time" shounen structure. Rather, I find it highly unlikely that all of the suitors "roles" will even be battle-oriented.

What I'm thinking is that this arc will develop like a suspense thriller, with Zenkichi's team acquiring clues/making inferences while the suitor team tries to delay them while in a race against time towards their real objective. Accordingly, fighting/defeating enemies will not be a central focus.

Going by your synopsis, fighting would be the main focus or at least about as much focus as in any other Shounen. Shounen arcs are quite often not simply about fighting, fighting simply occurs along the way as is with the case with most of the infamous rescue arcs. They don't go their purely to fight they go to save someone.

Unless this is literally turned into some sort of game and only a game it's the most logical outcome. Peoples lives are at stake here when that happens they usually start reverting to violence as was shown in this very chapter, regardless of whether the character in question can truly be "killed". The suitors aren't just going to let Zenkichi's crew reach the Jokers if your plot is correct which will mean the inevitablity of confrontation at some point unless the suitors litterally can't fight.

What your describing is a generic shounen rescue arc.

[Xiyon]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Heh. I dunno why people are already making assumptions about some sort of "formula" (shounen battling, chasing after the Jokers, etc.) anyway. Would Zenkichi's team taking down the suitors one by one while chasing after Medaka be interesting? I don't think so.

Rather, if you look at Nienami Namanie's dialogue "I am the suitor in charge of [Cutting]", I am seeing two suggestions: one, that the suitors are all working together; and two, that they each have specific roles. Moreso than merely "Cutting", Namanie appears to have been specifically left on the aircraft carrier to guard against stragglers and anticipate a search party's arrival. Under the assumption that at least on some level the Jokers are being confined and kept from contacting the outside world intentionally (given the lack of communication), it also seems obvious to me that several of the suitors should probably be at work securing the present location of the Jokers. Lastly I imagine at least one or two of the suitors directly engaging the Jokers in some form of negotiation (explaining why the Jokers have not forcefully broken their way out).

Kumagawa stated the previous chapter: Medaka's team has obtained their 6 wins, there is no reason for them to entertain the Black Wedding Feast any longer. Any strategem the real suitors must have devised probably involves both some measure of force (keeping Medaka's team there, and even isolated) and some measure of diplomacy. That Namanie was waiting for Zenkichi's team clearly implies that the suitors don't want any interference.

At this point, only two major questions are at the forefront: 1. what are the suitors really after? And 2. what is the true nature of the Kurokami (and related) family?

On Zenkichi's side, the central pivot for new development is actually precisely the nature of Torai, and how the Student Council has adapted with the advent of the new Flask Plan.

Zenkichi's team's role/perspective right now is similar to the audience's in that his principle objective is to unravel these mysteries and obtain that information. But the suitor team themselves, currently must primarily have their hands tied dealing with the Joker team, instead of engaging in minor skirmishes with Zenkichi. There are no major suggestions that this coming arc must have a formulaic, "one opponent at a time" shounen structure. Rather, I find it highly unlikely that all of the suitors "roles" will even be battle-oriented.

What I'm thinking is that this arc will develop like a suspense thriller, with Zenkichi's team acquiring clues/making inferences while the suitor team tries to delay them while in a race against time towards their real objective. Accordingly, fighting/defeating enemies will not be a central focus.

Can it be possible that the suitors are holding Medaka hostage to take over the Kurokami Group?

Whoever's family Medaka marries into goes up in the Kurokami hierarchy, right? What if the families decided that, instead of bickering amongst each other, they'd share the profit. The head house would naturally say 'no' to such a proposal so they resort to kidnapping the heiress.

One epic twist would be that Hipster-kun planned this all as his own form of vengeance against the main family. He is a Jump SQ dark hero, after all! "One that works from the shadows" and all that!

I'm pretty sure the arc will still be battle-oriented, though. Maybe not outright fisticuffs- Naze might have to outsmart someone, for example, in a Harry Potter-style game of chess- but it'd still be a battle.

[Nvis]

Why do I get the feeling the suitors will join Zenkichi's harem....?

[Xiyon]

Originally Posted by Nvis

Why do I get the feeling the suitors will join Zenkichi's harem....?

I've been getting that feeling too, until a thought struck me.

If Hipster-kun is the true antagonist of this arc, those suitors might actually be his harem XD

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Xiyon

I've been getting that feeling too, until a thought struck me.

If Hipster-kun is the true antagonist of this arc, those suitors might actually be his harem XD

How dare you!? Those girls belong only to Zen Harem!

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Going by your synopsis, fighting would be the main focus or at least about as much focus as in any other Shounen. Shounen arcs are quite often not simply about fighting, fighting simply occurs along the way as is with the case with most of the infamous rescue arcs. They don't go their purely to fight they go to save someone.

Unless this is literally turned into some sort of game and only a game it's the most logical outcome. Peoples lives are at stake here when that happens they usually start reverting to violence as was shown in this very chapter, regardless of whether the character in question can truly be "killed". The suitors aren't just going to let Zenkichi's crew reach the Jokers if your plot is correct which will mean the inevitablity of confrontation at some point unless the suitors litterally can't fight.

What your describing is a generic shounen rescue arc.

Originally Posted by Xiyon

Can it be possible that the suitors are holding Medaka hostage to take over the Kurokami Group?

Whoever's family Medaka marries into goes up in the Kurokami hierarchy, right? What if the families decided that, instead of bickering amongst each other, they'd share the profit. The head house would naturally say 'no' to such a proposal so they resort to kidnapping the heiress.

The thing is, as I've been hinting, I highly doubt the Joker group will be any sort of "hostages" or in any serious need of rescue. Instead, what I am suggesting is that the group under pressure is actually the Suitors, who are barely able to even contain them right now (via a combo of strategically deployed abilities and extremely high-stakes negotiation), and whom the interference of the Student Council/Zenkichi's team threatens to throw completely off-balance.

That is to say, rather than fighting, perhaps the Suitors will be desperately trying to avoid conflict and set up diversions, in order to keep the Zenkichi team away from their core objective. Meanwhile accordingly, rather than directly "fighting" their enemy, Zenkichi's team may instead end up largely using their skills to evade traps and search for information.

Originally Posted by Xiyon

One epic twist would be that Hipster-kun planned this all as his own form of vengeance against the main family. He is a Jump SQ dark hero, after all! "One that works from the shadows" and all that!

Tsurubami is certainly a potential enigma here. Why, amongst the branch families, is he the sole male suitor? And, with the previous fiancé candidates for Medaka all killed off after the previous Pitch-Black Wedding Feast, is there any actual distinction between Kamome and the other suitors in being the last of his family?

[Xiyon]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

How dare you!? Those girls belong only to Zen Harem!

le gasp! Plot twist out of the left field~!

The suitors realize they are in love with Zenkichi and thus leave Dark Lord Hipster-kun out to dry. However, Kurokami Medaka is not happy with this turn of events and proceeds to demolish her newest competition in a yandere rage she copied and perfected from Emukae.

And thus, the Black Wedding Feast ends.

Oh, and it's all Zenkichi's fault o/

I'm on to your tricks, Nisioisin! You can't fool these parasite eyes!

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The thing is, as I've been hinting, I highly doubt the Joker group will be any sort of "hostages" or in any serious need of rescue. Instead, what I am suggesting is that the group under pressure is actually the Suitors, who are barely able to even contain them right now (via a combo of strategic deployed abilities and desperate negotiation), and whom the interference of the Student Council/Zenkichi's team threatens to throw completely off-balance.

That is to say, rather than fighting, perhaps the Suitors will be desperately trying to avoid conflict and set up diversions, in order to keep the Zenkichi team away from their core objective. Meanwhile accordingly, rather than "fighting" their enemy, Zenkichi's team may instead end up largely using their skills to evade traps and search for information.



Tsurubami is certainly a potential enigma here. Why, amongst the branch families, is he the sole male suitor? And, with the previous fiancé candidates for Medaka all killed off after the previous Pitch-Black Wedding Feast, is there any actual distinction between Kamome and the other suitors in being the last of his family?

What I'm wondering is why Hipster-kun appeared now. Sure Ajimu called him, but does that mean he intended to leave Medaka be until the next wedding feast? Or did he arrive early so he could befriend Medaka, quietly manipulating her into taking his spot.

And ah, I guess that could work, but wouldn't they have to beat the suitors to have a clue where the Jokers are being kept?

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Nvis

Why do I get the feeling the suitors will join Zenkichi's harem....?

lol, a lot of you guys seem to seriously think this will be happening, so I will enjoy seeing it when it doesn't. For the moment, I hardly even expect most of these fiance candidates to even be permanent/frequently reappearing characters.