AnimeSuki Forums

DSPaul · 2011-10-10, 21:36

The whole "survival strategy" phrase, combined with the recurring animal symbolism, puts me in mind of r/K selection theory in biology. Basically, this approach classifies different species as either r-strategists (who have a large number of offspring, thus increasing the chance that a few will survive) and K-strategists (who have fewer offspring, but spend more time and effort caring for them.) Penguins, like humans, are heavy K-strategists; they lay only one or two eggs at a time, but focus heavily on caring for them after they hatch. Rabbits lean more towards r-strategy than most mammals, although they're still K-strategists compared to, say frogs.

One of the main themes of Penguindrum seems to be love -- particularly familial love. We think of love and self-sacrifice as entirely selfless; from an evolutionary standpoint, however, that isn't quite true. The instinct to take care of our offspring evolved because it increases the likelihood of our genes surviving after we as individuals die. Altruism towards close kin serves the same purpose.

From a strictly Darwinian perspective, the "purpose" of life (insofar as there is one) is simply to make more life. Himari is a "destined bride" because her genetic purpose is to reproduce. Kanba's incestuous feelings are taboo, not because of any higher moral principle, but because inbreeding increases the risk of genetic disease. I suspect that the show is going to end up touching on the questions this raises: Are love and self-sacrifice a connection to a higher spiritual meaning? Or are they just mindless instincts? Is the "destiny" we keep hearing so much about a matter of divine will, or of genetic determinism?

Decagon · 2011-10-13, 20:03

In regards to the information from the novel and from press releases, it feels like the creators are expecting the anime viewers to keep up with other sources of information? Just watching the anime, it feels like I have a hard time following the discussion on most threads outside of general appreciation.

Nina.Wolken · 2011-10-17, 08:52

While posting in ep 14 thread, I ended up with that weird idea that Momoka's diary could be her... body.
Said like this it sounds weird but so far that's the only explanation I get on why is everyone after it ._.

risingstar3110 · 2011-10-17, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

While posting in ep 14 thread, I ended up with that weird idea that Momoka's diary could be her... body.
Said like this it sounds weird but so far that's the only explanation I get on why is everyone after it ._.

Do you think it's like DBZ. You get the diary, you put the hat on it, and Momoka is summoned?

But if it's that easy, the hat should teleport to the diary when Ringo visits them

Triple_R · 2011-10-17, 13:23

Maybe somebody has to actually fulfill the "prophecies" wrote down in Momoka's diary before Momoka can return in human bodily form.

Remember how the PoC once asked the brothers to help Ringo get with Tabuki? She didn't just say "Get the diary", she basically said "Help Ringo seduce him".

Maybe it doesn't matter who fulfills the prophecies, and what pair of people the romance surrounds, but just that somebody has to fulfill it first. Kind of like a puzzle that must be completed to "unlock" Momoka.

Nina.Wolken · 2011-10-17, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

But if it's that easy, the hat should teleport to the diary when Ringo visits them

Whatever the purpose of the diary, if it really is the penguindrum, the Hat did nothing to seize it when Ringo came to visit the Takakura. Maybe because it can't hence PoC needs someone to bring it where she materializes, in the space she summoned Shou and Kanba even Ringo once before...
Also as I have no clear idea on how Sanetoshi turns people into elixir for Himari and Mario, I've no idea how Momoka could have turn into a diary nor how she can reverse that condition. But I don't mind if those points remain obscure, it's not like everything ended up crystal clear in Utena either.

Edit :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Maybe somebody has to actually fulfill the "prophecies" wrote down in Momoka's diary before Momoka can return in human bodily form.

Oh! I like it! Though it does sound like a fairly time consuming process given there seem to be quite a lot of entries in this diary but maybe there is a special goal she wanted to achieve... One particular task that would bring her back... I prefer not to think of what would happen if that turn out to be the one Yuri start "fulfilling" by the end of episode 14 : "Momoka! Finally! Love of my life, I longed to see you again for 16 years but could you please wait 5 more minutes? See I'm not completely done with your sister yet ;]"
...
Gross =-=''

Triple_R · 2011-10-17, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

Whatever the purpose of the diary, if it really is the penguindrum, the Hat did no

Oh! I like it! Though it does sound like a fairly time consuming process given there seem to be quite a lot of entries in this diary but maybe there is a special goal she wanted to achieve... One particular task that would bring her back... I prefer not to think of what would happen if that turn out to be the one Yuri start "fulfilling" by the end of episode 14 : "Momoka! Finally! Love of my life, I longed to see you again for 16 years but could you please wait 5 more minutes? See I'm not completely done with your sister yet ;]"
...
Gross =-=''

lol!

Glad you like the basic concept at least.

risingstar3110 · 2011-10-17, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

Oh! I like it! Though it does sound like a fairly time consuming process given there seem to be quite a lot of entries in this diary but maybe there is a special goal she wanted to achieve... One particular task that would bring her back... I prefer not to think of what would happen if that turn out to be the one Yuri start "fulfilling" by the end of episode 14 : "Momoka! Finally! Love of my life, I longed to see you again for 16 years but could you please wait 5 more minutes? See I'm not completely done with your sister yet ;]"
...
Gross =-=''

How about if Momoka joins in, and threesome incest yuri? Still gross?
"Don't worry i give you my consent to go ahead with my sister." Sounds like cheap hentai plot

To say the truth, when it comes to yuri, i will still prefer a single consensus pairing. Unless they both going after Ringo and it's tasteful...and if it's a dj (so i won't have to feel guilty about it) then i'm all for it.

But anyway back to the topic, it's easy to reset the situation if someone barge in. But what if Yuri is success. And Ringo either becomes withdrawn, or really becomes her prisoner (physically, mentally)? Also one more thing,the inn was full of PenguinGroup logo,and seems to be fully reserved by Yuri. Could it be:

Penguin Force: Natsume Clan. When Himari refused Sanetoshi's kiss (?), a sticker of Penguin Force is torn off, indicating that Sanetoshi could be part of Penguin Force. And that's why he so closely take Natsume's side in this dispute.
Penguin Group: Yuri's influence, that's why that underwear store has PG logo
Kiga: the rebel organization.And their aim for that terrorist plot was to kill Mario, an important player of Penguin Force?

I means the Death- Life definition of Penguin Force/ group/ Kiga make sense too. But just maybe...

Decagon · 2011-10-17, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Maybe somebody has to actually fulfill the "prophecies" wrote down in Momoka's diary before Momoka can return in human bodily form.

Remember how the PoC once asked the brothers to help Ringo get with Tabuki? She didn't just say "Get the diary", she basically said "Help Ringo seduce him".

Maybe it doesn't matter who fulfills the prophecies, and what pair of people the romance surrounds, but just that somebody has to fulfill it first. Kind of like a puzzle that must be completed to "unlock" Momoka.

I remember in ep 5, PoC told Shoma to specifically take the diary, prompting Ringo to throw the hat away. It was followed by PoC asking them to help Ringo in the next ep, but I thought this was a compromise and not the intention.

Triple_R · 2011-10-17, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decagon

I remember in ep 5, PoC told Shoma to specifically take the diary, prompting Ringo to throw the hat away. It was followed by PoC asking them to help Ringo in the next ep, but I thought this was a compromise and not the intention.

Rewatching that scene from Episode 5, I find it incredibly hard to accept that PoC is Ringo's sister Momoka.

But yes, you're correct, and I had forgotten what exactly PoC had said in Episode 5.

So if fulfilling what is laid out in the Diary is necessary in order to bring back Momoka, then it's something that the PoC herself is not aware of (and/or isn't aiming for).

Kirarakim · 2011-10-27, 13:07

Spoiler for Episode Titles:

Spoiler for Info about 2nd Novel:

edited because spoilers not clearly marked!

Kazu-kun · 2011-10-27, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I am actually kind of hoping the novel & anime won't be too different because I don't like when stories have major alternative endings.

It won't be an alternative ending. Just extended scenes and such. Think of the differences between Madoka anime and manga. It's going to be like that.

Kirarakim · 2011-10-27, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It won't be an alternative ending. Just extended scenes and such. Think of the differences between Madoka anime and manga. It's going to be like that.

Well I can't think of the differences because I have not read the Madoka manga

But extended scenes are perfectly fine to me!

Triple_R · 2011-10-28, 12:13

Wild speculation time.

Now, time for some visual comparisons...

Spoiler for Kanba's dad, Kanba, Natsume:

In my view, these three share noticeable facial structure characteristics, as though being close family members. Similar overall nose structure, and sunken eyes. Very sharp facial features in general.

So, here's a thought:

Kanba and Natsume are half-brother/half-sister. They share the same father, but have different mothers. Kanba's family was disowned from the Natsume clan because of his mother being an "outsider". This is why he hates the Natsume family. However, his biological connections to such a rich and powerful family nonetheless gives Kanba some sway with the criminal underworld, hence enabling him to gain money quickly.

By extension, Sho is also Natsume's half-brother, while Kanba and Sho are both half-brothers to Himari (same mother, different fathers).

By "the four of us reuniting", Natsume's father is referring to him and his three biological children (Natsume, Kanba, and Sho).

What do people think? It's pretty out there, but...

faburosumakusu · 2011-10-28, 12:20

But what about Mario?
Also, Masako's dad has red hair.

wandering-dreamer · 2011-10-28, 12:30

So Kanba and Masako would share the same dad while Sho, Kanba and Himari would all share the same mother? I could see it happening but I wonder if Kanba and Masako's dads aren't siblings or cousins instead.

Triple_R · 2011-10-28, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by faburosumakusu

But what about Mario?

Good point. That does complicate matters. Hhmmmm...

Maybe Natsume and Kanba are merely cousins, and their fathers are brothers to one another.

Utsuro no Hako · 2011-10-28, 14:00

So the twist ending will be that Kanba avoids an incestuous relationship with Himari by having one with Masako instead?

Kirarakim · 2011-10-28, 18:37

So apparently spoilers for the 2nd novel are already out on 2ch (hence spoilers for episode 17 and 18).

Now I have to see if I have enough willpower to stay away!

faburosumakusu · 2011-10-28, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

So apparently spoilers for the 2nd novel are already out on 2ch (hence spoilers for episode 17 and 18).

Now I have to see if I have enough willpower to stay away!

Oh could someone please post them here please? (2chan is blocked at my school

)

2011-10-17, 08:52	Link #23
Nina.Wolken ~~N/F~~ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kappas' country.	While posting in ep 14 thread, I ended up with that weird idea that Momoka's diary could be her... body. Said like this it sounds weird but so far that's the only explanation I get on why is everyone after it ._. __________________

2011-10-17, 13:23	Link #25
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Maybe somebody has to actually fulfill the "prophecies" wrote down in Momoka's diary before Momoka can return in human bodily form. Remember how the PoC once asked the brothers to help Ringo get with Tabuki? She didn't just say "Get the diary", she basically said "Help Ringo seduce him". Maybe it doesn't matter who fulfills the prophecies, and what pair of people the romance surrounds, but just that somebody has to fulfill it first. Kind of like a puzzle that must be completed to "unlock" Momoka. __________________

2011-10-28, 12:13	Link #34
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Wild speculation time. Now, time for some visual comparisons... Spoiler for Kanba's dad, Kanba, Natsume: In my view, these three share noticeable facial structure characteristics, as though being close family members. Similar overall nose structure, and sunken eyes. Very sharp facial features in general. So, here's a thought: Kanba and Natsume are half-brother/half-sister. They share the same father, but have different mothers. Kanba's family was disowned from the Natsume clan because of his mother being an "outsider". This is why he hates the Natsume family. However, his biological connections to such a rich and powerful family nonetheless gives Kanba some sway with the criminal underworld, hence enabling him to gain money quickly. By extension, Sho is also Natsume's half-brother, while Kanba and Sho are both half-brothers to Himari (same mother, different fathers). By "the four of us reuniting", Natsume's father is referring to him and his three biological children (Natsume, Kanba, and Sho). What do people think? It's pretty out there, but... __________________

2011-10-28, 12:30	Link #36
wandering-dreamer reads too much Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: you know that's a great question.....	So Kanba and Masako would share the same dad while Sho, Kanba and Himari would all share the same mother? I could see it happening but I wonder if Kanba and Masako's dads aren't siblings or cousins instead. __________________ If it has a plot I have something to say about it! Twitter time!

2011-10-28, 18:37	Link #39
Kirarakim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	So apparently spoilers for the 2nd novel are already out on 2ch (hence spoilers for episode 17 and 18). Now I have to see if I have enough willpower to stay away! __________________ Twitter MAL

2011-10-10, 21:36	Link #21
DSPaul Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	The whole "survival strategy" phrase, combined with the recurring animal symbolism, puts me in mind of r/K selection theory in biology. Basically, this approach classifies different species as either r-strategists (who have a large number of offspring, thus increasing the chance that a few will survive) and K-strategists (who have fewer offspring, but spend more time and effort caring for them.) Penguins, like humans, are heavy K-strategists; they lay only one or two eggs at a time, but focus heavily on caring for them after they hatch. Rabbits lean more towards r-strategy than most mammals, although they're still K-strategists compared to, say frogs. One of the main themes of Penguindrum seems to be love -- particularly familial love. We think of love and self-sacrifice as entirely selfless; from an evolutionary standpoint, however, that isn't quite true. The instinct to take care of our offspring evolved because it increases the likelihood of our genes surviving after we as individuals die. Altruism towards close kin serves the same purpose. From a strictly Darwinian perspective, the "purpose" of life (insofar as there is one) is simply to make more life. Himari is a "destined bride" because her genetic purpose is to reproduce. Kanba's incestuous feelings are taboo, not because of any higher moral principle, but because inbreeding increases the risk of genetic disease. I suspect that the show is going to end up touching on the questions this raises: Are love and self-sacrifice a connection to a higher spiritual meaning? Or are they just mindless instincts? Is the "destiny" we keep hearing so much about a matter of divine will, or of genetic determinism?

2011-10-13, 20:03	Link #22
Decagon This was meaningless Scanlator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Not on this site no more. Age: 36	In regards to the information from the novel and from press releases, it feels like the creators are expecting the anime viewers to keep up with other sources of information? Just watching the anime, it feels like I have a hard time following the discussion on most threads outside of general appreciation.

2011-10-28, 12:20	Link #35
faburosumakusu Member Join Date: Sep 2011	But what about Mario? Also, Masako's dad has red hair.

2011-10-28, 14:00	Link #38
Utsuro no Hako Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011	So the twist ending will be that Kanba avoids an incestuous relationship with Himari by having one with Masako instead?