AnimeSuki Forums

J4n1 · 2013-09-26, 00:18

Gogou needs to explain where the god gains their power/origin for the golden sword to work (why nobody hits him during themonologue, i don't know), rather silly requirement imo, the knowing/understanding your enemy works, but having to speak it out loud kinda looses it for me.

Lot of readers seem to like it though, and it's not really that big part of the battles so i don't mind that much.

Feng Lengshun · 2013-09-26, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velsy

Just finished volume 1 with the Athena and Godou fight.

I have to say that fight style was really wierd? It was like Godou was fighting by convercing campire stories with Athena? Alot of chatter going on between the two. His sword started loosing its power once he had no more stories to tell ? Some how, that power he has seems to have alot of flaws, quite complicated. Having to meet conditions and what not, would be very annoying. But I guess it keeps him from being OP?

Towards the end I started to get dissapointed that he start looking for Erica to come to his aid ? Cant he fight his battles 1 on 1 without having someone to save him? Have to say if thats the case, well then hes lucky to have Erica. But it was all good in the end, since Erica didnt get involved directly into the fighting, she only provided him with a new weapon, since hes previous became useless. He still had to win it on his own and so, I am happy he did.

I was also thinking he just got himself Athenas powers, such as the darkness and her Scythe to replace that useless sword of his. But I guess he let her go, and I acknowledge that kinda mercifulness.

Are alot of boss fights going to be fought this confusing way?

The Golden Sword is a sword that severs the opponents divinity (Authority). To do so, however, it is required to supply it with the knowledge of how the God come into being, or rather, how it became the way it is right now. What other myths makes the God, the God's histories, its origin... you can compare it to a detective revealing the "who, how, and why" to cut off the perp's escape.

Godou is a rulebreaker as he got ten powers in one Authority, [Persian Warlord]. To compare, it would be like telling a single processor to do a lot of tasks at the same time. He had a lot of limitations because he has technically overclocked the authority system.

Erica is still only a human. Only Campiones, other Gods, and the best of the best magicians can even fight Heretic Gods, though as long as they are human, they can *never* beat any deity. That's why, Erica can't join the fight. Godou always wins his battles by a small margin as he was only a Campione for a few months and requires helps, but that's just how he fights. Just like how Doni fights by being 'empty' and could only use sword and no magic except for Leap and his Authorities. That's just their nature, no one can change it.

Simply put, it will always have the [Sword] but he will start use his Authorities in creative ways once he got Murakumo. Finding out the identity of the God or the truth of a myth and using what you've got instead of changing is the center of the Campione's mechanics and story.

Velsy · 2013-09-26, 01:09

Would it be logical to say, that the golden weapon lost its power because hes too weak to maintain it ?

Von Himmel · 2013-09-26, 01:23

What do you mean by that? From what I've seen, he would stop using [Sword] when he manages to sever his enemy ability or changing his authority.

I'd suggest you to read it the chapter again since it seems you missed a couple of explanations in there.. but continuing on to chapter 2 is also good because I think that volume explains his power well compared to vol 1.

Ultragunner · 2013-09-26, 01:24

That can be since he's still trying to master all of his power.

Spoiler for For example:

Moreover, the [Sword] can be used as both offence and defence but in exchange it will eventually become less "sharp" as the fight drags on (like the more you cut with a blade, the more blunt it get)

Feng Lengshun · 2013-09-26, 01:34

^ Or more like, the more you infodrop, the more you run out of things to infodrop.

zzhk · 2013-09-26, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velsy

Would it be logical to say, that the golden weapon lost its power because hes too weak to maintain it ?

No, it's not an issue of maintenance at all (or running out of things to say, as some people put it).

The Sword is simply a weapon that starts off sharp and dulls with each use. Once forged, there is a fixed amount of cutting it can perform.

If an opponent is able to keep it from striking their body directly (e.g. blocking with spells or weapons of their own), the Sword can be neutralized before it can land a decisive blow.

bludvein · 2013-09-26, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feng Lengshun

^ Or more like, the more you infodrop, the more you run out of things to infodrop.

The sword doesn't even use up a small part of the knowledge required to use it. The sword loses "sharpness" long before he can possibly rattle everything off.

Feng Lengshun · 2013-09-26, 02:28

^ I was talking on a meta-scale. And that is true, sword can't really handle a lot of pressure. Especially Japanese sword but that's besides the point. I've seen a lot of videos on swordsfights and they tend to rely on as little contacts of the sword as possible. The reason why the debate on which side to block attacks never ends was because the lacks of sources on it, because they always said to dodge instead of block. Not only blocking chips the sword and blunts it, it is surprisingly easy to break a sword in a swordfight. Getting your lifeline into a useless (blunt sword) or broken (broken sword) is probably not in your best of interest but again, that's besides the point.

Considering that Campione! follows history and facts, with a little touch of opinions and speculation to connect the dots, it is natural that the [Sword] will be somewhat similar to a real sword's property.

J4n1 · 2013-09-26, 05:13

Sword is awesome, if it hits, but lot of Godous enemies can either dodge it, or block it.
Or they have multiple powers to fall back on after loosing one authority or part of their power.

Which is understandable as otherwise the sword would become simple one hit kill against almost every enemy Godou can't just punch into submission (or let Erica punch into submission).

Feng Lengshun · 2013-09-27, 07:28

So, I was just looking around and browsing around when I found something interesting. The word "凛々しい" (ririshii) can be translanted to "chivalrous". Is it just a coincidence that the chivalrous Liliana's name was based on that word? If that's so, then I feel like an idiot for taking this long to find out about it.

kazzuya13 · 2013-09-27, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by bludvein

The sword doesn't even use up a small part of the knowledge required to use it. The sword loses "sharpness" long before he can possibly rattle everything off.

The sharpness of the [sword] is based on his knowledge of his opponent.

Ultragunner · 2013-09-27, 10:34

It may just depend on personal interpretation.
You can either say:

_ The [Sword] gets blunt when used in an extended period of time.
_ or in order to sustain the [Sword], Godou needs to pour "knowledge" into it, just like how we need to occasionally sharpen our kitchen knives with tools.

Velsy · 2013-09-29, 00:45

I am a little bit into volume 2, and I've realized something. My first impression of Godou was horribly wrong. To keep it short, he's spineless. Everything he does and says is that of an idiot. Have I got that part right ?

I understand his sword a little better now too, Thank you.

kazzuya13 · 2013-09-29, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velsy

I am a little bit into volume 2, and I've realized something. My first impression of Godou was horribly wrong. To keep it short, he's spineless. Everything he does and says is that of an idiot. Have I got that part right ?

I understand his sword a little better now too, Thank you.

He is not spineless. He is a hypocrite.

Ultragunner · 2013-09-29, 02:19

yeah, that's the correct term

Velsy · 2013-09-29, 02:52

Well I am not refering to his combat outlook as of much, but more specificly how he handles himself in general.

Feng Lengshun · 2013-09-29, 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velsy

I am a little bit into volume 2, and I've realized something. My first impression of Godou was horribly wrong. To keep it short, he's spineless. Everything he does and says is that of an idiot. Have I got that part right ?

I understand his sword a little better now too, Thank you.

Gee, you only realize that now? What part of "Campiones are fools" that you didn't understand? Godou is actually quite decent for a Campione (he's also a natural strategy genius, the book said) but let me explain to you about that now (read at your own risk as it might change a lot of how you saw the story and characters):

Spoiler for The Horrible Implications:

Voban is a stereotypical villain and a Lucifer-wannabe who would do mass murders just for shits and giggles; Luo Hao is a severely delusional and has a monumental size of ego comparable with Gilgamesh while only seeking power just to gain more power; Aisha is Girl!Shirou who doesn't think about consequences (or at least long-term consequences); Edward- er The Black Prince (what was his name again? Oh yeah, Alec, I kept calling him Edward) has a very weak motivation and lacks empathy (he's basically like Togami Byakuya from DanganRonpa, except taken higher in certain directions); Annie/JPS has severe social/personality problem (dissociative personality disorder for both; shyness, self-worth, self-esteem, social skills, and very severe Oneitus problems for Annie; and being a costumed overgrown overly dramatic hero complex man-child for JPS) while being the most decent of all Campiones; Doni is a psychopathic remorseless mass murderer who would even kill hundreds (with his [Restriction] that disables all modern equipments which would includes things such as pacemaker, planes, and wrecks the economy) just for the possibility of his rival (who hates him and how much he made trouble) getting stronger (he didn't by the way); and Godou is hypocritical and deeply denying of his true self, has terminal Confirmation Bias, a giant harem collector (read: either playboy or pick-up artist), and actually a battle maniac who would crush anyone who got in his way (with the exception of girls) should his denial, hypocrisy, and confirmation bias are gone.

While it was presented in a lighthearted way, the world is more crapsack than it seems, what's with the mortals being totally powerless over the divine who are either idiots (better Campiones), mass-murderers (the worse Campione and some of the Gods), or selfish egoists (most of them are). The worst part is that they are insufferable, they don't have any consequences as the mortals cannot harm them and even the better Campiones like JPS doesn't seem to be interested in stopping the others. There's a reason why I think of Artus as the true hero of the story as he is the one who punishes both Campione and Heretic Gods, thus maintains the balance of the world and preventing it from imploding because of its own people.

...

I really hate this part of me that would reflexively find the implication and consequences of anything (in fiction, in real life it's a useful thing). Yukari's right, hindsight is a bitch.

dragon1412 · 2013-09-29, 04:32

what so weird about it, it's already stated that all campione are tyrant, and the gods aren't the heroes either, it's just that siding with campione is more profitable than with gods as they didn't destroy thing just by exist.

Feng Lengshun · 2013-09-29, 04:46

Not really, it's just that it was portrayed rather lightheartedly, what's with even the salt-stoned agents were even able to be returned and especially due to using the protagonist that didn't see the implications. It has always been said that Campiones are tyrants, but is rarely shown... in the foreground. In the background, it got worse. It's a Crapsaccharine World. The character is worse than they seemed and the world is just heading toward a total implosion, if not for Artus.

That thought change what I think of Guinevere 180-degree from a damn b*tch to a tragic heroine. The 'protagonist' even murdered the one person that was able to revive the one who could maintain the balance of the world. Harsher in Hindsight indeed. Though actually, it makes me like Campione! even more as I just love Crapsack World settings, especially Crapsaccharine World. It just seems deeper than the usual 'normal' setting.

2013-09-26, 01:09	Link #8143
Velsy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Would it be logical to say, that the golden weapon lost its power because hes too weak to maintain it ? __________________ Donated by Om Nerabdator

2013-09-26, 01:23	Link #8144
Von Himmel エーレンフェストの聖女 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dollars	What do you mean by that? From what I've seen, he would stop using [Sword] when he manages to sever his enemy ability or changing his authority. I'd suggest you to read it the chapter again since it seems you missed a couple of explanations in there.. but continuing on to chapter 2 is also good because I think that volume explains his power well compared to vol 1. __________________ 「何かが起こっても、わたくしが守ります」

2013-09-26, 01:24	Link #8145
Ultragunner Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	That can be since he's still trying to master all of his power. Spoiler for For example: the [Ram] incarnation, when it first activated (in vol 11), it took him 1 full day to recover, now in vol 1 he managed to shrink the time down to a few hours Moreover, the [Sword] can be used as both offence and defence but in exchange it will eventually become less "sharp" as the fight drags on (like the more you cut with a blade, the more blunt it get) __________________

2013-09-26, 01:34	Link #8146
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	^ Or more like, the more you infodrop, the more you run out of things to infodrop. __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2013-09-26, 02:28	Link #8149
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	^ I was talking on a meta-scale. And that is true, sword can't really handle a lot of pressure. Especially Japanese sword but that's besides the point. I've seen a lot of videos on swordsfights and they tend to rely on as little contacts of the sword as possible. The reason why the debate on which side to block attacks never ends was because the lacks of sources on it, because they always said to dodge instead of block. Not only blocking chips the sword and blunts it, it is surprisingly easy to break a sword in a swordfight. Getting your lifeline into a useless (blunt sword) or broken (broken sword) is probably not in your best of interest but again, that's besides the point. Considering that Campione! follows history and facts, with a little touch of opinions and speculation to connect the dots, it is natural that the [Sword] will be somewhat similar to a real sword's property. __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2013-09-26, 00:18	Link #8141
J4n1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013	Gogou needs to explain where the god gains their power/origin for the golden sword to work (why nobody hits him during themonologue, i don't know), rather silly requirement imo, the knowing/understanding your enemy works, but having to speak it out loud kinda looses it for me. Lot of readers seem to like it though, and it's not really that big part of the battles so i don't mind that much.

2013-09-26, 05:13	Link #8150
J4n1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013	Sword is awesome, if it hits, but lot of Godous enemies can either dodge it, or block it. Or they have multiple powers to fall back on after loosing one authority or part of their power. Which is understandable as otherwise the sword would become simple one hit kill against almost every enemy Godou can't just punch into submission (or let Erica punch into submission).

2013-09-27, 07:28	Link #8151
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	So, I was just looking around and browsing around when I found something interesting. The word "凛々しい" (ririshii) can be translanted to "chivalrous". Is it just a coincidence that the chivalrous Liliana's name was based on that word? If that's so, then I feel like an idiot for taking this long to find out about it. __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2013-09-27, 10:34	Link #8153
Ultragunner Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	It may just depend on personal interpretation. You can either say: _ The [Sword] gets blunt when used in an extended period of time. _ or in order to sustain the [Sword], Godou needs to pour "knowledge" into it, just like how we need to occasionally sharpen our kitchen knives with tools. __________________

2013-09-29, 00:45	Link #8154
Velsy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	I am a little bit into volume 2, and I've realized something. My first impression of Godou was horribly wrong. To keep it short, he's spineless. Everything he does and says is that of an idiot. Have I got that part right ? I understand his sword a little better now too, Thank you. __________________ Donated by Om Nerabdator

2013-09-29, 02:19	Link #8156
Ultragunner Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	yeah, that's the correct term __________________

2013-09-29, 02:52	Link #8157
Velsy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Well I am not refering to his combat outlook as of much, but more specificly how he handles himself in general. __________________ Donated by Om Nerabdator

2013-09-29, 04:32	Link #8159
dragon1412 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: somewhere in Asia	what so weird about it, it's already stated that all campione are tyrant, and the gods aren't the heroes either, it's just that siding with campione is more profitable than with gods as they didn't destroy thing just by exist.

2013-09-29, 04:46	Link #8160
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	Not really, it's just that it was portrayed rather lightheartedly, what's with even the salt-stoned agents were even able to be returned and especially due to using the protagonist that didn't see the implications. It has always been said that Campiones are tyrants, but is rarely shown... in the foreground. In the background, it got worse. It's a Crapsaccharine World. The character is worse than they seemed and the world is just heading toward a total implosion, if not for Artus. That thought change what I think of Guinevere 180-degree from a damn btch to a tragic heroine. The 'protagonist' even murdered the one person that was able to revive the one who could maintain the balance of the world. Harsher in Hindsight indeed. Though actually, it makes me like Campione! even more as I just love Crapsack World settings, especially Crapsaccharine World. It just seems deeper than the usual 'normal' setting. __________________ A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**