Tsuyokute New Saga

[laclongquan]

Killing half a continent of human in one place to gather mana is stated in web novel. "Mountains of corpse" and all that.

To get that number, you need to conquer at least half, or 60% of human territories AND transfer ALL the prisoners back. If not ALL, then you need to conquer 70-80%.

You also fail to see it, prolly because you dont understand it. Transport HALF A FUCKING CONTINENT's citizens back to one region, in war time, is no small task. It is huge. Any students of war must salute that effort because no empire on earth ever achieve that. The worst/best they can do is the Mongol kill all the males, enslave all the females of a small kingdom. A city-state in MidEast near Persia or India, IIRC.

OKay, a modern semi-example of that would be China. Their commuters leave their home to work in the cities on east coast 11 month of a year. At December, ALL those workers travel back west to their homes. On trains, on buses, on ships for certain provinces along the rivers, or on planes. Read it on Net. EVERY newspaper cover that annually migratory movement because it's always news worthy. And THAT is still not half a continent. ANd it's in peace times, modern vehicles, and modern conditions.

[Namorax]

I thought we were debating about whether or not the DK traveled back through time and used his pre-knowledge to speed up the annihilation of humanity?

Transporting many peoples (against their will) from one end of the world to the other is a monumental task... but IIRC, we don't actually know many people they have to transport at once, nor the actual distances.
Not saying this kind of task is minor or something... its just that we assume quite a lot here. A medieval city had an average of 100k-400k inhabitants (with some chinese cities going up to 1 million).
Assuming the demons slaugther a part of that during their conquest and and another part manages to flee, they have to deal with 60-80% of a surviving population. They'll propably cull everyony who would slow them down on the march back, or who wouldn't survive it in the first place...

[Breimoon]

I think part of the killed were used as part of strenghtening army(just as human army was thinking to do) to speed things up and making things easier so we may want to take an another 10% off there since the 1/3 they killed will be used to strenghten the army.

[laclongquan]

You still miss the point. it need a genius in planning to accomplish the move, or a very experienced time traveller to have the correct knowledge to manage it.

They need that amount of live human at one place, so their deaths will fuel the dragonheart's mana storage. Any deaths on the way is just plain waste and they have to replace with new human.

Well let's just move on. You obviously not going to get it.

[chad001]

Ok quan, I don't know if it's just me, but you seem a little condescending and confrontational, and your writing is difficult to read. Also, while I agree that a lot of people had to be gathered in one place (as the novel does say so) and it was most likely the castle that was where the ritual (may have) occurred, the ritual is never explicitly stated to need a massive amount of live humans at the same time, or even if the bodies were killed at the castle. It's entirely possible that they were killed on the spot, the energy contained in smaller crystals (or whatever they use to contain energy), and then transferred to the God Dragon's Heart, and then the bodies brought there for food or something. The ritual could also have been performed more than one time.

[laclongquan]

Me: Look, the pyramids are awesome
Someone: Nah, that is a pile of stone.
Me: no, really. This is how it's awesome:A, B, C
Someone: Naaaah~
Me: Look, even modern conditions can create this A, B, C and not as awesome as that.
Someone: Naaaah~
Me: Okay, fine. Let's pass this. Obviously you are not going to get its awesomeness.
Someone: How rude! How condescending! How confrontational!

[Namorax]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

You still miss the point. it need a genius in planning to accomplish the move, or a very experienced time traveller to have the correct knowledge to manage it.

They need that amount of live human at one place, so their deaths will fuel the dragonheart's mana storage. Any deaths on the way is just plain waste and they have to replace with new human.

Well let's just move on. You obviously not going to get it.

That's basically what I wanted to point out: why would the author need to add a "complicated" plotline with multiple timejumps into the past when he could just as well attribute the success of the war to manpower and capable officers?
Maybe we should just agree to disagree.

From my point of view, there isn't much difference between moving a giant army from A to B and then move half of that giant army+tons of (demoralised/scared) prisoners back to A.
Heck, if speed really is of the essence, why not use the elderly prisoners (or thos who wouldn't survive the march anyway) to power a teleporter? Send the humans back instantly using the "lives that would've been lost on the march" and your army is free to move on to the next target without having to babysit prisoners back home.

I don't want to deny the effort in planning etc that goes into a campaign of that scale (which was described really vague). We don't know if they used air-support, what kind of magic or support magic, if they used giant beasts of burden, dragons as air transports, etc... so everything is more or less theory anyway.


The way I percieve this discussion is more like:
You: Look the pyramids are awesome. The architect (or person to order it build) must've come from the future because otherwise the egyptians would've never been able to build them.
Me: Nah, its more or less a pile of stone. Someone back then could've easily figured out how to build them and the rest is simply manpower/slaves.
You: No, it's because A,B,C...
Me: Still doesn't prove they had nobody capable enough if doing it themselves. (Starts throwing in magic and other things to show that much of what we know is guesswork).
You: Okay, let's forget it since you obviously don't get what I'm trying to show/explain to you.

---------------
I don't think you've been rude. It's normal to act like this if you spend a lot of time trying to get your point across only to see its getting nowhere.

[NzmAnhDee]

Originally Posted by SinsI

It is better to double your magic instead: if you start your travel at the same time point, you should return a little less into the past each time, so that your (empowered) soul is merged with your previously empowered self and not with your original self - first jump is 30 hours back, second one is 29 hours back... This way your growth would be exponential.

Why not return 0.0001 second or more every time, that way it won't const that much magical power and increase his power enough to shatter the space around him.
Since magic = Energy and there is always a limit in space for how much energy it can hold before shattering, his prescence alone would be omnipotent.

Lol, Super cheat ability

[Namorax]

Originally Posted by NzmAnhDee

Why not return 0.0001 second or more every time, that way it won't const that much magical power and increase his power enough to shatter the space around him.
Since magic = Energy and there is always a limit in space for how much energy it can hold before shattering, his prescence alone would be omnipotent.

Lol, Super cheat ability

To make this easier to explain, let me treat this story like a game.
Kayl kills lots of stuff does many quests and therefore becomes strong enough to to kill the Demon King. When he uses the Dragonheart, he basically takes his XP and sends them into the past and as a result the amount of Mana he has available is increased. (We haven't seen anything else that was different about him)
He sends his XP 0.0001 into the past and... what then?
He kills nothing, he completes no quests... there's absolutely no growth.
Your "super cheaty ability" is basically reloading the same savegame again and again and again, expecting that you level up if you do often enough. xD

He can only grow stronger if his "soul" experiences different things, a "growth" if you want. He isn't stronger or more agile than before his time travel. All he gets is Mana and Knowledge. If he ever happens to repeat the process and timetravel AGAIN, he would notice that the "growth" this time around wasn't as big as the previous time.
To pick up the vidyagame-analogy: Starts his adventure with the destruction of his village -> He earns 1million XP and Levels up to Lvl80 -> kills Demon King -> travels back in time -> Starts before village gets destroyed and begins adventure -> Is technically still Level 80 but has the physical stats of Level 1 -> Gets 1 million XP again -> Levels up to Level 90 ->Kills Demon King etc...
Travelling back 1ms in time will give him the chance to earn exactly 0 XP, which means in order to level up he would have to do this for eternity

[ser4]

New manga chapter came out today. I found the development quite surprising

[laclongquan]

And it's pass the LN translation

[MODXNET]

Seran-sama!

[MrTerrorist]

I didn't saw that coming but then i remember his mom a warrior and he did join the final assault in the original timeline.

[Schion93]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

I didn't saw that coming but then i remember his mom a warrior and he did join the final assault in the original timeline.

actually I remember spoilers saying that Seran is stronger than Kail in Swordsmanship

[Rainne]

actually I remember spoilers saying that Seran is stronger than Kail in Swordsmanship

thats in the original timeline, remember the MC was a complete Sloth until the day that his mom and villagers died, in Mind the MC is stronger but atm his body cant keep up thats why he is using Gravity rings to enhanced his body to be on par with everything else.

[dandiehard]

after reading the chapter i thought MALE MOKA from ROSARIO + VAMPIRE

[Silentwolfie]

Originally Posted by Namorax

To make this easier to explain, let me treat this story like a game.
Kayl kills lots of stuff does many quests and therefore becomes strong enough to to kill the Demon King. When he uses the Dragonheart, he basically takes his XP and sends them into the past and as a result the amount of Mana he has available is increased. (We haven't seen anything else that was different about him)
He sends his XP 0.0001 into the past and... what then?
He kills nothing, he completes no quests... there's absolutely no growth.
Your "super cheaty ability" is basically reloading the same savegame again and again and again, expecting that you level up if you do often enough. xD

He can only grow stronger if his "soul" experiences different things, a "growth" if you want. He isn't stronger or more agile than before his time travel. All he gets is Mana and Knowledge. If he ever happens to repeat the process and timetravel AGAIN, he would notice that the "growth" this time around wasn't as big as the previous time.
To pick up the vidyagame-analogy: Starts his adventure with the destruction of his village -> He earns 1million XP and Levels up to Lvl80 -> kills Demon King -> travels back in time -> Starts before village gets destroyed and begins adventure -> Is technically still Level 80 but has the physical stats of Level 1 -> Gets 1 million XP again -> Levels up to Level 90 ->Kills Demon King etc...
Travelling back 1ms in time will give him the chance to earn exactly 0 XP, which means in order to level up he would have to do this for eternity

Hmm? His soul experience different things? What volume is that? If you read the manga chapter 6, the familiar explains that Kail's soul went to a different parallel world and increased his mana capacity because he merged with that world's kail's soul.

That would mean he got 2 kail's worth of mana. Even if he goes back 0.0001 seconds for the third time, he gets 3 kail's worth of mana because he went to another different kail's world and merged again.

I didn't see anything about it in the light novel volume 1 either, where killing different things will up his soul abilities.

PS: The light novel states that Kail has the potential to use the highest grade of magic, not just "high" grade. It's doubtful that demon lord jumped repeatedly for the same reason of soul merging, unless someone wants to pull out something like not jumping to another world theory (And there's zero hint of it as far as I can see.)

[Namorax]

Guess the next point of order is to define what a "soul" is. xD

Nevermind, we also learn from his mother that no wizard alive ever managed to travel any "considerable" time into the past, which kinda implies they were to travel an insignificant amount of time into the past. Or that there is a treshold they need to break through, which requires them to have an amount of mana that isn't really specified.
According to your logic, traveling the tiniest part of a millisecond into the past would require next to no energy, which allows our enterprising wizard(s) to basically DOUBLE their power/mana.
No matter how weak the wizard originally was, he pours enough energy into the ritual to travel 1/(10^înfinity) seconds into the past and suddenly he/she is twice as strong as before.
Since there are no godlike sorcerers running all over the place, who power up like super sayans whenever they encounter somebody who's stronger... then I guess it doesn't work that way.

Demon King wasn't the first to study timetravel, so it's not very probable that he happened to be the first (and only one) to discover this power-up effect. This means there is no fixed "+100" bonus to every stat just because you fused your soul with yourself.

My interpretation is that a "soul" consists of memories, knowledge and things you experienced. All that gets bundled up and fused with the "younger" version of the timetraveller who receives that "power up" by way of having done all these things already.

[laclongquan]

Originally Posted by Rainne

thats in the original timeline, remember the MC was a complete Sloth until the day that his mom and villagers died, in Mind the MC is stronger but atm his body cant keep up thats why he is using Gravity rings to enhanced his body to be on par with everything else.

The grativity ring is to increase burden on his body, a method of constant training.

Remember that Kail is just her student, but Seran is her child. Maybe she cant be as strict toward Kail as toward her son.

If I interpret things correctly, Kail only wear the gravity ring recently, before meeting the elf a bit. Meanwhile, latest chapter of manga seem to indicate that Seran wearing it waaaaaaay longer.

[Rainne]

The grativity ring is to increase burden on his body, a method of constant training.

Remember that Kail is just her student, but Seran is her child. Maybe she cant be as strict toward Kail as toward her son.

If I interpret things correctly, Kail only wear the gravity ring recently, before meeting the elf a bit. Meanwhile, latest chapter of manga seem to indicate that Seran wearing it waaaaaaay longer.

yea but in the original timeline, the MC would have been home chilling and doing nothing till his village is destroy, but now the MC knows whats gonna happen and he is training, is a matter of time before his body catches up to his Skills/magic, by the time the demon lord appears the MC would have easily surpass his Future Self many times over.

The reason why Seran is stronger is because he can be force to wear and train because his mother is his Teacher, while the MC cant. Surely in the original Timeline Seran was stronger due to him having training and a stronger body but as i said before the MC has already begun his training and he has knowledge of the future, and his swordsmanship is many years ahead of his original self.