Claymore Chapter 121

[MalakTawus]

@Asimati

Deneave saw the WC and the training fight and is our resident skilled judge. Miria outstat Claire and would win a normal fight at that yoki level, so she should be able to handle a 0% WC.

No, Deneve can say that Miria outstats Claire all she wants (and btw it's quite obvious that it's a very biased opinion,lol), but it's still a fact that we have seen very clearly that at 0% yoki Miria is not stronger at all than Claire,on the contrary for what we have seen it's clear that AT BEST Miria would be on equal ground with Claire in those conditions depending if Claire was avoiding Miria on purpose during the SINGLE time (yes,just one) that she attacked Miria with the WC or if what we saw was Miria really dodging.......tbh to me that seemed Claire launching simply an "attack warning",i'm not even sure that Miria can really avoid Claire's WC,but i can agree with people that beive that Miria was really able to see the attack and dodge it.......from that and saying that Miria "would win a normal fight at that yoki level" there is an abyss.

....but anyway the real confront was between Miria and Raph.....and sorry to say but those two don't seems to be in range at all,lol.
How can you even put a warrior that MAYBE can avoid a 0% WC in the same range of a warrior that can parry the same attack like it was nothing?
It's not that Raph was able to normally parry Claire's attack,it seemed that she could parry it even while drinking a cup of coffee and reading a book!!!
Not to mention that beside speed Raph is clearly superior in everything else compared to Miria.......and if you add to that the fact that Raph is basically the n.1 with more experience than everyone else......no seriously, Miria is not even close.......unless when you say that those two are in the same range you consider a range that is freaking huge.

I'm actually using her as baseline for Luciela (and Isley), so if she's improved a lot during that time, then it's weaking Luci and Isley, since those were on the same level (outcome of fight not certain). Aging doesn't seem to improve skill, only training and it's hard to know how much Raphaela did train. Those all A does seem to invite putting her as baseline for notable nr 1, even if A is quite a wide grade by itself.

Ehm, Raph's objective was to kill her sister,an abyssal, so it's quite obvious that she didn't sleep all those years,i thought this was quite evident.....

We do have a hypothesis about it. So we do have basis.
Also, if you're using zombie ressurection on the strongest claymores ever......

Again.....it's been said very clearly in the manga (with no possibility of misunderstanding) that those 3 zombies are not necessarily stronger than the 3 old abyssals,they are simply the only warriors that MAYBE could be stronger than them.....in other words they seemed to have more or less the same strenght so the Mibs don't know if they'll be stronger or not.

He was slower than the old phantom, otherwise Miria would never been able to dodge. He was quick enough to force Miria to constantly use phantom to be able to dodge and make her run out of yoki very quickly.

You must be a blind Miria fan,because there is no way in hell that Miria was faster than Rigardo,also what you say here doesn't make any sense 'cause in case you haven't noticed even Rigardo was able to dodge Miria's attacks very easily,lol.
To be more precise their pure speed was basically the same (he himself says so.....and Claire said that Miria was trying to follow his movements giving everything she had,but it was still him to give the "rhythm" to the battle) but Rigardo had clearly better control....anyway Rigardo's movements were better,no contest.

[Nixl]

@White Silver King
I do think the Claire/Priscilla conclusion is close as well as the Raki/Claire reunion. I already made a post describing my fears of Yagi going to the main land before. If he does pursue Claymore to a mainland arc, I am perfectly okay with that, but such an arc would carry with in a lot change in the story from characters, to motivations, to even tone. To be brief, Claymore has had a foundation in Claire hunting Priscilla and small groups of warriors hunting monsters. A Mainland arc would operate under a different formula. Not only would Claire and the others need a new motivation, but the story would be about war and not the monster hunter setting we have been accustomed to.

In essence, a mainland arc would be a blank slate for the story. Yagi could potentially take any and I mean any direction with the DoDs/the war. For all we know, he could introduce magic, the DoDs being the zerg, or even Dragon Warriors, etc. These examples may seem damn silly, but a mainland arc allows for anything, for better or for worse.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Nixl

@White Silver King
I do think the Claire/Priscilla conclusion is close as well as the Raki/Claire reunion. I already made a post describing my fears of Yagi going to the main land before. If he does pursue Claymore to a mainland arc, I am perfectly okay with that, but such an arc would carry with in a lot change in the story from characters, to motivations, to even tone. To be brief, Claymore has had a foundation in Claire hunting Priscilla and small groups of warriors hunting monsters. A Mainland arc would operate under a different formula. Not only would Claire and the others need a new motivation, but the story would be about war and not the monster hunter setting we have been accustomed to.

In essence, a mainland arc would be a blank slate for the story. Yagi could potentially take any and I mean any direction with the DoDs/the war. For all we know, he could introduce magic, the DoDs being the zerg, or even Dragon Warriors, etc. These examples may seem damn silly, but a mainland arc allows for anything, for better or for worse.

Everything you said, in other words, is why it's better to just make the mainland arc, if he makes one, as a seperate sequel -- too much can and will be changed, Claymore will be all but unrecognizable if it's part of the same story up till now.

You're right though; the Claire/Priscilla conclusion is nigh, and undoubtedly, the Raki/Claire reunion as well.

[Nixl]

Not going to lie Shiekamatic, I am not a huge fan of the "Claymore 2" idea, since I find it somewhat unnecessary. It is still the same story so to speak, but it would definitely experience a shift.

Besides, Hokuto ShinKen had a mainland arc towards the end and it turned out just fin-....oh shi*t

[White Silver King]

I always thought Miata and Clarice (and possibly Galatea ) would be the main characters if he took the story to the Mainland.

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by White Silver King

I always thought Miata and Clarice (and possibly Galatea ) would be the main characters if he took the story to the Mainland.

A story with Galatea, Miata, and Clarice?

FUND IT!

[MalakTawus]

Nixl,i really hope that you are wrong about one thing: i'd be super disappointed if Yagi decides to do a fight between Claire and a fatigued Priscilla,that would be so dumb imo.....
I want a fair fight,but since it's obvious that normal Claire can't win against awakened Priscilla, i'd love to see some sort of full awakening for Claire,maybe something more human-like since she's not a normal awakened. THAT would be something that i'd love to see .

Oh well,everyone has his own desire about the evolution of Claire-Prissy situation,lol.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Nixl

@White Silver King
I do think the Claire/Priscilla conclusion is close as well as the Raki/Claire reunion. I already made a post describing my fears of Yagi going to the main land before. If he does pursue Claymore to a mainland arc, I am perfectly okay with that, but such an arc would carry with in a lot change in the story from characters, to motivations, to even tone. To be brief, Claymore has had a foundation in Claire hunting Priscilla and small groups of warriors hunting monsters. A Mainland arc would operate under a different formula. Not only would Claire and the others need a new motivation, but the story would be about war and not the monster hunter setting we have been accustomed to.

I also would prefer it if Yagi did not make a sequel. I love Claymore but i do not want it to continue on the mainland. I also think that Clare will get her revenge soon by killing priscilla, and that she and Raki will be reunited again. I really hope that Clare and Raki get reunited soon. But i don't want claymore to have a whole new plot. The original plot was Clare killing priscilla (and later destroying the organization and Clare reuniting with Raki) and i think that the story will end not very long after priscilla dies. Although I would like a few chapters after that about Clare and Raki together.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Oh well,everyone has his own desire about the evolution of Claire-Prissy situation,lol.

I want Clare and the other ghosts to fight her together and defeat her (and the ghosts survive of course), But Clare would get the final blow in against priscilla.

[MalakTawus]

Well,personally i'd love if the story continues in the mainland with Claire and Raki,those two would be a great couple

...but for that Claymore would need a great motivation.....what if (like someone else already said iirc) when Claire comes out of the blob,all her friends are dead and the Mibs have escaped from the island?
I would totally imagine Claire running in the mainland to kill those bastards,lol.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Well,personally i'd love if the story continues in the mainland with Claire and Raki,those two would be a great couple

Well i would really love Clare and Raki to be together too
But i would prefer it if they were together in Rabona, and not on the mainland fighting.

[Nixl]

In truth, I believe any mainland motivation from Claire would have to result from Raki. The reason I believe that is that in many ways Raki has been a means to both introduce and explain important elements of the story. The very premise of claymores was introduce through Raki. In addition, both the revelation that claymores awaken and that Claymores are ranked were explained to Raki. Let us not also forget that Raki became our means to introduction Isley and to keep tabs on Priscilla. Furthermore, Raki was the vessel that brought Priscilla's arm that brought the ZAOs. While Claire is our protagonist, Raki has been pivotal to carrying plot devices from point A to point B.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Not going to lie Shiekamatic, I am not a huge fan of the "Claymore 2" idea, since I find it somewhat unnecessary. It is still the same story so to speak, but it would definitely experience a shift.

Besides, Hokuto ShinKen had a mainland arc towards the end and it turned out just fin-....oh shi*t

Not sure what Hokuto watchamacallit is, but there ya go

Hasn't the story changed enough as it is? looking at pre-timeskip and post-timeskip? Honestly, so much alone has changed since ch.100 or so...

I don't want Claymore to end, looking at the end, then looking at the beginning and going "what the hell"....I want it to end with some semblance, and not that something happened halfway through to make it completely unrecognizable; if the story goes the way to the mainland, and who knows what else, I fear it will be.

I mean, just take the Claire/Priscilla thing....I do not believe either of the are the main protagonist/antagonist, that the world revolves around them, that the story is all about them etc etc.....but I still can't deny that their practically up at the top important things to resolve, one of the things that's been around since the very beginning....

And soon it will be ending soon - the original Abyssals are already dead....I mean really, I'm not saying I want the story to end soon, but I do not want Claymore to just go on and on forever; to be dragged on until it goes only south and gets more and more unrecognizable; Let it end with dignity and resemblance to how it was before.

Not that I think the story has already passed it's peak and has only been going down ever-since at some point.....but really -- looking at how many many people have been reacting to the story for quite some time; that's the general feeling many people have - I'm not talking about the forum, since the enthusiam and excitement of this place slowly going down hill =/= the same feelings about the story....but the chapters themselves. When was the last time we got a chapter that everybody loved, accepted, and debated like crazy?


I need to make a point since i'm going all over the place -- point is, rather then the story end in the far future when it's completely different from how it used to be, and probably not all the better for it...end it soon, end it well and with some semblence to how it used to be -- if Yagi really wants to move to the mainland, that's fine really....but with regards to the pre-timeskip days, I feel it's better if that's part of a seperate sequel and not part of the original.

[Nixl]

Well Shieky, I have two responses. The first is that the anime brought the bulk of our viewers/posters and not the manga itself. Second, this arc does not have Claire in it. As much as I find Claire plain in certain respects, she brings some focus and order to the story. Right now we have shifted Miria, the ghosts, Ana's group, the ZAOs, the twins, Raki, the MIBs, Dae, Rubel, and Audrey/Rachel. She acted as a pillar, which brought a lot of readers and without her things do seem off.

While I think this arc is a nice experiment, I do think it shows that Miria and the rest are not enough to carry the plot alone.

[White Silver King]

I do not believe either of the are the main protagonist/antagonist, that the world revolves around them, that the story is all about them etc etc

...

Spoiler:

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Well Shieky, I have two responses. The first is that the anime brought the bulk of our viewers/posters and not the manga itself. Second, this arc does not have Claire in it. As much as I find Claire plain in certain respects, she brings some focus and order to the story. Right now we have shifted Miria, the ghosts, Ana's group, the ZAOs, the twins, Raki, the MIBs, Dae, Rubel, and Audrey/Rachel. She acted as a pillar, which brought a lot of readers and without her things do seem off.

While I think this arc is a nice experiment, I do think it shows that Miria and the rest are not enough to carry the plot alone.

....I'm not sure I get where you're going -- I never pushed aside Claire or anything; I'm not even focusing on the characters really so much as the plot itself; my worry that if the story goes to the mainland, it will deviant too far from it's origins more the it already has.

Bare in mind that I don't mind a mainland arc again; I just feel that, if it must be done, let it be a seperate story so the story doesn't have to go Ch.200 or even further which is ridiculous
---

White Silver King, I have no idea what point you are trying to make; but nice to see that image again .

[Nixl]

Well, it comes down context Shieky, for you and I Claire may not may not be the center of the Claymoreverse, but to others she me vary well be. Furthermore, her presence may have an effect on the flow of the story, which what I tried to imply.

Edit: No Galatea, Miatia, or Clarice for months T_T

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

White Silver King, I have no idea what point you are trying to make; but nice to see that image again .

Shiek927, do you really not understand it. Because i think it is pretty funny.

You said that Clare wasn't the main character (or something like that) and White Silver King showed a picture of her on the cover implying that she is the main character. Which she is.

But in my opinion she is the main main character while Raki, Miria, Helen, Deneve are main characters.

And Tabitha is background scenery

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Well, it comes down context Shieky, for you and I Claire may not may not be the center of the Claymoreverse, but to others she me vary well be. Furthermore, her presence may have an effect on the flow of the story, which what I tried to imply.

.....And again, I wasn't pushing her aside -- hell, if the story goes further on to the mainland, I want her around; new characters will obviously have to be made, but I want our stars to remain further on (though, again, it can be argued that the story ending soon and perhaps one of the Ghosts, like Helen and/or Deneve, dying will be better and have a much bigger impact on us)....my questioning is whether the story should even go so far in the first place.

Yes, I really miss our Rabona girls

--

Claymore! it was a silly.....I mean really, Miria is on the cover now; Claire doesn't have a monopoly on the cover nor does it really mean anything in the first place .

Now now, let's not get into this again......Heh, main main character

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Claymore! it was a silly.....I mean really, Miria is on the cover now; Claire doesn't have a monopoly on the cover nor does it really mean anything in the first place .

Well we could get a picture of the blob on the cover. I mean thats sorta a picture of Clare. Clare is in there somewhere, even if it looks like a pile of poop.

Yes, I really miss our Rabona girls

So do I.
I really love Galatea (and because you can't have one without the other, I love Clarice and Miata too )

[White Silver King]

Claymore! it was a silly.....I mean really, Miria is on the cover now; Claire doesn't have a monopoly on the cover nor does it really mean anything in the first place .

More importantly, she was the main picture on the cover of the first volume. The main protagonist(s in the rare cases there are actually multiple ones) is always front and center on the first volumes cover - Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail, InuYasha, Shaman King, etc all have their main protagonist smack in the middle of the cover of the first volume. It lets you know "this is who this manga is about, if you don't like him/her don't read it."