Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by jafri

*Salute Music Plays. That means mourn for Lockon Stratos Death. ALI AL-SACHEZ will burn in hell for sure.*

One Word:- REVENGE!!!!

Really? I would think a little less revenge is called for, unless you want another character to push himself into death. Lockon was gungho for revenge. Lockon was so gungho for revenge, he escalated a victory after the enemy had already retreated, attacked the enemy ships that were managing a retreat, and chased a veteran pilot through an asteroid belt even though he was half blind. Lockon was so gungho for revenge, he willingly ran straight to his own death.

If Lockon had been a bit less for revenge, Lockon would be alive. Lockon is just as responsible for his own death as Ali.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Ok people, he is dead. Lockon is dead. OK?!? Understand!

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

I would say Dynames will be piloted again. However, it's the matter of who will be the pilot. (Not adding next, in hope Lockon somehow survives)

There's still a debate whether dynames will have another pilot or they will take the gn drive and put it on another gundam since dynames is Lockon's gundam.

So it really comes down to the next episode for me. Since Lockon's gun survived, it will be what tells us or me whether Dynames will be piloted again or they will take the gn drive out and put it on another gundam.

If they use or put back the gun to the Dynames gundam, that tells us that the gundam will be used again by another pilot. If they bury it or make it a memorabilia or trophy in remembrance of Lockon then they will create another gundam with the gn drive.

[Shiryuu]

Aww, they killed off Lockon. I wonder if "Lyle" will take his place?

Also, aren't the thrones the same as curses? How did fangs get through Tieria's shield (something that should have less power compared to a rifle connected to a suit)?

About Lyle, he's probably a clone (or the other way around). The flashback of his family didn't show him in it, so it can't be a twin.

Weird that Saji was nowhere to be seen in this episode.

Dynames will be stripped of the GN drive and placed into Exia. Give it a new mode, what other cars does pontiac make?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

Also, aren't the thrones the same as curses? How did fangs get through Tieria's shield (something that should have less power compared to a rifle connected to a suit)?

Unbreakable Gundam law; there is no defense against a beam blade. You can have super god-hax armor, but one beam stab could still kill you.

This rule exists to justify the flashy sword fights. For as long as you still have a beam saber, you still stand a chance of winning.

The GN-fangs follow the same rule, in that their beam shots could be blocked, but the stabbing method will always beak defenses.

[Jeffry2009]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Really? I would think a little less revenge is called for, unless you want another character to push himself into death. Lockon was gungho for revenge. Lockon was so gungho for revenge, he escalated a victory after the enemy had already retreated, attacked the enemy ships that were managing a retreat, and chased a veteran pilot through an asteroid belt even though he was half blind. Lockon was so gungho for revenge, he willingly ran straight to his own death.

If Lockon had been a bit less for revenge, Lockon would be alive. Lockon is just as responsible for his own death as Ali.

I meant Revenge for Lockon Stratos's Death in the next final 2 episodes.

[LuMiZu]

About Lyle, he's probably a clone (or the other way around). The flashback of his family didn't show him in it, so it can't be a twin.

Many have pointed out a 5th plate in the flashback scene, while only 4 people were present. In other words, he may be there, but is simply not shown. (or some even argue the flashback is from Lockon's POV, whichever way you like it)

[FuzzyWuzzy]

K just found out that the truth whether Lockon is still alive or dead.
Big spoilers though so don't look unless you are prepared. They show a big spoiler clip around 25 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIls2e2eU7c

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Unbreakable Gundam law; there is no defense against a beam blade. You can have super god-hax armor, but one beam stab could still kill you.

This rule exists to justify the flashy sword fights. For as long as you still have a beam saber, you still stand a chance of winning.

The GN-fangs follow the same rule, in that their beam shots could be blocked, but the stabbing method will always beak defenses.

There's a gundam ultimate defense that cannot be broken.
Plot-Haxxor Shield > Beam Blade

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

There's a gundam ultimate defense that cannot be broken.
Plot-Haxxor Shield > Beam Blade

Usually, beam saber duels happen between two characters with plot shields. So it often ends up with who hits the cockpit first.
Plotshield or no, if a beam saber can't kill him, nothing can.

It is unusual that Lockon's final duel with "Prince Ali" was settled with a snipe-off. But that was both attributed to the production team's originality, and the fact that sword fighting was never Lockon's strong point.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Really? I would think a little less revenge is called for, unless you want another character to push himself into death. Lockon was gungho for revenge. Lockon was so gungho for revenge, he escalated a victory after the enemy had already retreated, attacked the enemy ships that were managing a retreat, and chased a veteran pilot through an asteroid belt even though he was half blind. Lockon was so gungho for revenge, he willingly ran straight to his own death.

If Lockon had been a bit less for revenge, Lockon would be alive. Lockon is just as responsible for his own death as Ali.

Logic over emotion. Hey, why not?

I agree that less revenge should be called for, but it depends on whether logic can still rule against emotion when it comes to the remaining Meisters and the point that Lockon had been a key factor in bringing the Meisters together to become more of a team than they used to.

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

K just found out that the truth whether Lockon is still alive or dead.
Big spoilers though so don't look unless you are prepared. They show a big spoiler clip around 25 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIls2e2eU7c

....What the hell was that...?

There's a gundam ultimate defense that cannot be broken.
Plot-Haxxor Shield > Beam Blade

Quoted for truth. As much as I hate to bring in C.E, The battle between Freedom and Impulse is one good example of a "Plot-Haxxor Shield", even though the anti-ship sword wasn't technically completely made of beam particles.

[Demongod86]

And never actually hit Kira either! Shinn Shinn-Stabbed (TM) the place where the cockpit on MOST MSes is. Except that's where Freedom's reactor was, NOT the cockpit. And in GSD 35, it showed that Kira shut down the reactor BEFORE it went critical and had some sort of catastrophic failure--and as a result Freedom got completely wrecked by the TANHAUSER--NOT Shinn's sword. In fact, even the IMPULSE got completely wrecked when Freedom SHIELDED it from most of the blast.

Arthur came VERY close to having a major TK there.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Quoted for truth. As much as I hate to bring in C.E, The battle between Freedom and Impulse is one good example of a "Plot-Haxxor Shield", even though the anti-ship sword wasn't technically completely made of beam particles.

Shinn's AS sword stabbing charge is sort of an exception to the rule. In the three times he employed it, he failed to kill any of the pilots. This is more fodder suggesting that Shinn is out of practice at stabbing compared to chopping.

Regardless, even though no one died, the two times he successfully stabbed a mecha, the mecha was still destroyed. Thus the beam saber's reputation as a weapon against mobile suits was not tarnished.

In the end, plot shield is only effective at protecting the pilot. It doesn't mean his mecha would survive. So beam sabers are still King.

[Owaranai Destiny]

*Sigh* Just as I feared...Derailing of the topic and biased comments. I should never have mentioned that example.

Anyway, it doesn't seem like there are really any concrete candidates to be the next Dynames pilot in the near future, at least for the upcoming clashes with the three blocs. While it would seem as though there are 'potential candidates' in Saji (hopefully not) and Lyle (or whatever his name really is), they aren't anywhere near getting into Celestial Being, unless we get a nice little story as to how they managed to get into contact with the CB crew.

And Setsuna as Saji's neighbour doesn't really count.

EDIT: Well, if you put it that way, there's going to be a plot device for the pilots on one hand, and on the other another one for beam blades going through their opponents. Sounds fair to me.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Just back on 00, now that Ali's reachd his 5-kill-combo of named characters in 4 straight weeks, there is quite an impressive list of people who would want him dead.

I think it is safe to say Ali is still alive at this point. The question is, who would get to kill him?

My personal opinion, is that I want him to die from being back-stabbed.

A backstabber with no loyalties but himself should die by treachery; to know what it feel to die purely because someone else think it is more convenient that way.

I don't really want him to die in an exploding MS, in the middle of a battle. It sounds too much like how he would have wanted to die.

In short? I want Wang to have the honor. She herself is immoral, but that's exactly what I am looking for. Her considerable wealth and influence could attract Ali to his doom. Not knowing that someone just as cold and ruthless as him is in the same room, looking cute and innocent, Ali would make a fatal underestimation.

This is just my desires, of course. Each to their own.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Saji will kill Ali.
I'm pretty sure of it.

[Codine]

Saji wont kill anybody, if anybody is going to put Ali down its Setsuna.

[Ardi220288]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

Saji will kill Ali.
I'm pretty sure of it.

ah yes then I'll ask mizushima to revive him to be killed again by setsuna

just no way saji willl kill ali

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

A backstabber with no loyalties but himself should die by treachery; to know what it feel to die purely because someone else think it is more convenient that way.

I don't really want him to die in an exploding MS, in the middle of a battle. It sounds too much like how he would have wanted to die.

In short? I want Wang to have the honor. She herself is immoral, but that's exactly what I am looking for. Her considerable wealth and influence could attract Ali to his doom. Not knowing that someone just as cold and ruthless as him is in the same room, looking cute and innocent, Ali would make a fatal underestimation.

This is just my desires, of course. Each to their own.

Actually, I like your thinking. Death as a punishment rather than what he wants. Ali will surely go out as the incorrigible villain who does not see a change of heart. Thing is, why would Wang kill him?

Besides that, there's the point of pleasing the audiences (I'm sure there's quite a sizeable group out there baying for his blood, wanting him dead before he unlocks the next Xbox achievement) and foiling Ali's wishes for a death he wants on the battlefield. Having him killed in that particular way would mean denying Setsuna, Tieria and perhaps even Saji (If he ever did find out and gather enough hatred to overpower any feelings of helplessness).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Actually, I like your thinking. Death as a punishment rather than what he wants. Ali will surely go out as the incorrigible villain who does not see a change of heart. Thing is, why would Wang kill him?

Besides that, there's the point of pleasing the audiences (I'm sure there's quite a sizeable group out there baying for his blood, wanting him dead before he unlocks the next Xbox achievement) and foiling Ali's wishes for a death he wants on the battlefield. Having him killed in that particular way would mean denying Setsuna, Tieria and perhaps even Saji (If he ever did find out and gather enough hatred to overpower any feelings of helplessness).

Why would Wang kill him?
The same reason Ali kill; because she can, and it is convenient.

Yes, I know it is unlikely because it would be uncharacteristic of a Gundam show. But I personally prefer it because Ali has far too many enemies for a single death to satisfy all fandom. If you can't please everyone, then you might as well please no one.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

[quote removed by a moderator]

Nah, most people agree that Ali worships money and voilence, not any religion.

Do cut back on the cursing and racism before the Mods smash you like a bug.

[NeonZ]

Plotshield or no, if a beam saber can't kill him, nothing can.

Beam Sabers failed to cut the Double X even with direct hits, but I guess that's the only exception to the rule. Funnily, a "beam knife" did chop one of the DX's arms. I suppose the more impractical the weapon is, the better it actually works.

Anyway, back on topic, I'll be disappointed if Ali still comes back this season, any battles against him now will be just pointless, and there's still Graham and the new MA too.