2011-01-10, 05:32 | Link #301 | |
A novice to anime
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nor*Cal, Rokkenjima, Illusionary World
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2011-01-10, 05:33 | Link #302 |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Aw, I'm just adding comments, MeoTwister5 is doing all the real effort posting the summaries. Glad to help out though. A lot of people are getting the wrong impressions from the initial out-of-context spoilers, IMHO. I'll be really curious to see the broader reactions after the Witch Hunt release comes out.
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2011-01-10, 05:35 | Link #303 | |
A novice to anime
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nor*Cal, Rokkenjima, Illusionary World
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I do agree people are getting a little crazy over the spoilers and false info coming from 2chan but it will probably start all back up again when Witch Hunt does release the english patch. (Still can stop looking at your cute Ayu icon )
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2011-01-10, 05:43 | Link #304 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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I have to admit, when the cat box was first mentioned, I was afraid it was going to be a misuse of the analogy. But I was very pleased to learn over time that this wasn't the case at all. Also, on another thought that came to me while reading some of the other comments, should we interpret AuAu's termination of Lambdadelta as a metaphor for the author's elimination of certainty in this story...? ...at least until the Tea Party, heh.
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2011-01-10, 06:00 | Link #305 | |
A novice to anime
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nor*Cal, Rokkenjima, Illusionary World
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Your last quote on Au destroying Lambda just blew my mind! I think that's genius. On the topic of the S's Cat Box though I think many readers don't understand it. Reading the Umineko spec thread there's a lot of people who don't. But despite whether Ryukishi opens the box or not I believe that if the reader comes to the correct answer they will know.
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2011-01-10, 06:38 | Link #306 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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For those who don't know. Schroedinger's catbox was a challenge to the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics. Schroedinger intended to demonstrate the absurdities of quantum physics by applying what happens to particles to cats. He thought that while chasing particles physicists were looking for things that didn't exist. Is how if goes? As for how this applies to the cat well basically it can't REALLY be both alive or dead before you open it. (the idea that it can be both is the absurd part) It's either or. But there can be alternate realities where the cat is either alive or dead. Oliver had some things to say about it. As for Alan Moore Quote:
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Last edited by Judoh; 2011-01-10 at 06:52. |
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2011-01-11, 04:10 | Link #308 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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I'm posting the reply to this quote in here, since it's more relevant to EP8.
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Here are the clues: 1. EP7 beginning; Battler swears that he'll keep this book closed forever. Or something. At the time I thought it was Beatrice's story or something but in EP8 it was shown to be Eva's Diary. 2. EP7 Tea Party, EvaB can be heard. This probably marks around the time she was recruited by Bern. 3. EP8, when Ange was making a fuss, Eva remarked that the diary was just what she wrote when she was 'out of it' or something. I forgot what the words were, but basically she meant that it wasn't the most reliable... So, when they said that Eva's diary contained the One Truth in red, I didn't buy it. I figured, sure, it's got the details, but it'll be so full of bias that if you're not careful you'll buy the wrong ideas as 'truth.' i.e. in EP7 Tea Party, none of us bought the idea that Kyrie could be a psychopathic child killer, for example... When I was reading about how Ange wanted to know the whole truth and not listen to what Battler had to say, this was my thinking process. Ange was the only person in the world who could remember the Ushiromiya family, however faintly. In that sense, she's the only one who could remember her own unique truth; that the people weren't so nuts as the outside world had cast them as. As Battler and the others said, it's plausible to me that Kinzo was, privately, a very nice guy, especially to his children. I see some of my family in that. (I thought that, sure Battler's scenes were so sickly sweet, and yet, if I compare them to my family, it isn't really that different. I think we've been traumatized too many times by Bern.... :3) Technically Ange was rejecting the 'sweet' version of the story, but Battler was trying to get her to remember her family, in essence. So I thought, if she refused (and she did at first), and she only knew her family from the outside rumors, and she only wanted to know the truth in the diary... what difference is she from all the other Witch Hunters, etc? She's the same as an unrelated person. Anyways, then she sees the diary and goes insane and I thought, this is the result of seeing something as crazy as the EP7 Tea Party, while being desperate to find the 'truth.' As vulnerable and emotionally damaged as she was, people can feed her bias without her knowing it. And so, I was thinking, even if we do get to crack Eva's Diary and discover the one truth... wouldn't it be filled with so much bias that we'd still have a huge mess to sort out? |
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2011-01-11, 04:39 | Link #309 | ||||
The True Culprit
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Fucking meta. Quote:
I mean, shit, Ange receiving Maria's diary and Mammon's Stake atleast made sense since she was a blood relative. Quote:
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2011-01-11, 09:15 | Link #310 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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What a conundrum.
You can't rely on the physical evidence, because there isn't any. You can't rely on testimony, because everyone who survived was traumatized in some fashion. You can't rely on written evidence because it's biased, tampered with, or just outright fiction. What truth is there to hide? Is Battler really hiding anything?
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2011-01-11, 11:45 | Link #312 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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This was one of my takeaways from ep 8. While Battler certainly goes hyperbolic in his story-telling, I think this is the true meaning of the Fukuin orphanage, and why it was important for it to be revived in the end. While I'm sure he could have done more with his assets, the orphanage was a reflection of a philanthropic side of Kinzo we don't see in the other games. In any case, I think it's less about how the family really was and more how they would like to be remembered.
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2011-01-11, 11:58 | Link #313 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Well, I'm sure they probably had friends and other people who probably knew them well. So, I wouldn't say Ange was the only person who had a good view of them.
Of course, unless we go by the idea that only your family knows you well, which I believe is a big fallacy. Of course, that may be a Japanese cultural thing, or just R07's.
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2011-01-11, 12:19 | Link #314 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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So there's that side of Kinzo that is never really shown, but clearly reflected in a concrete action he took.
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2011-01-11, 15:52 | Link #315 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Then she'd turn into a drooling wreck, get put into the funny farm... BAD END. You get the idea I didn't like Ange very much, right? Quote:
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2011-01-11, 19:13 | Link #318 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Of course, speaking of this, I also like how in Tatarigoroshi-hen, Keiichi's mom talks about And Then They Were None and the irrelevance of perfect unsolvable crimes to the mystery genre. Makes you wonder what hints he's dropped this time for his next series...
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