2011-01-30, 17:58 | Link #15941 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Oh, and also she never tanks against Cypha, her defense fail, that's for sure but during the entire battle she never tank any of Cypha's attacks(ironically it's Cypha herself who does the "tank" thing). One of the things that annoys me is the amount of clumsiness Signum displayed during said fight. Cypha destroys Laevatein and she just ..stands there waiting to be slashed like a turkey. Specially jarring taking into consideration how she's showed to be quicker than Cypha before. While Signum defeats Fate on their first encounter Fate wasn't by any means clumsy, she showed to be an so excellent and skilled fighter that even Signum recognizes it despite the gap. EDIT: Page claimed for Dojikko Signum.
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2011-01-30, 18:01 | Link #15942 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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And a term for what you mean in your first quote would be antivillain: someone who uses evil means to a good or selfless end. By that definition, the Wolkies were certainly 'evil'. |
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2011-01-30, 18:03 | Link #15943 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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They are evil, there is no 'speculations' about that, as we have multiple exemples of massacres by the huckbeins (Touma's village, the 10 or so towns destroyed that fate/teana were investigating, the nuns). However, it's not because they are evil that we can't empathize with them, or even sort of understand them. We just have to be aware that liking someone doesn't make them any less Evil. When the huckbein use their infection as an excuse to kill people- and yes, they do use it as an excuse- then they are evil. Also, they did commit massacre in TSAB territory. |
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2011-01-30, 18:11 | Link #15944 |
Burst Mode
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I think the true determining factor will come when they are cured for the virus.
The Huckebein kill out of necessity. They have to sate the virus, or they have to eliminate witnesses during a job. Take away all that, the ones who decide to keep on killing regardless will truely be the 'evil' ones.
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2011-01-30, 18:13 | Link #15946 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Unless said story reveals all the people they killed were all wanted criminals, hearing a sob story will not change my view that their actions at up to that point were evil any more then it changed my view about the Wolkies. |
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2011-01-30, 18:20 | Link #15948 | ||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I like the wolkenritter but thats not make their crimes any less evil. They were killars on many worlds, that doesen't change, absolute orders or not. watching them trying to save Hayate and attempting to amend for their crimes helps me A LOT to start symphatizing with these guys(when the only thing i know about them was "it's a group of guys stronger than Nanoha and Co. who strip mages of their power to fill an evil book" i used to think that they're a bunch of jerks, their very correctly timed backstory saves them from become a group of sccrapies). the same way is with the Huckebein, being syphatetic is not directly related with being evil, i like villains of various stories but that not makes them any more less evil. they're villains now, if that change it only depends of future changes on the story. Quote:
We can argue on this forever but our theories only can be cemented or crumbled to pieces by the story itself. there's a LOT of times that i disagree with the ending of an anime(well, to be fair, most anime endings are crappy in general) or with a plot twist but at the end is the view of the writer the only thing that affect directly the outcome of characters/stories(for example i really can't buy the idea of Shana abandoning her life as a Flame Haze and becoming a normal girl just for the sake of "love", but that is apparently the author's feeling and i can't do a thing to change that). If someone wants to continue on this fine. You can have the last word if you will but this is just endless.
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2011-01-30, 18:39 | Link #15949 | |||
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While normally I love debates, I'll let this be my last word on the subject, heh.
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Still, regardless of the success or failure, it's just something you do. It's something they've done before. And I loved the next generation continuing it, with Erio and Caro reaching out to Lu, and Teana reaching out to Nove. Quote:
Something like that. The Hucks were basically, "We're not operating in TSAB space, so you have no jurisdiction. We tend to leave you alone, even though you won't do so in kind. If you insist on fighting us, we WILL respond and any extra deaths will be on your conscience." Yeah, telling someone to just outright surrender only works if you currently hold overwhelming power over them. It may make you feel good, but it's pointless. It's interesting that, given the overwhelming power Hucks have over mages, that they didn't demand their enemies surrender, nor did much besides poking them enough to go away. Quote:
At any rate, as I said, I'll let this go for now. I am waiting for the Huck's "It was a Small Wish" episode to show me how and why they came to be how they are. I don't see killing itself as evil, since me being alive today means someone dies by default. It's the circumstances surrounding the death, and what drove someone to kill, that will shape my opinion of who is evil and who is merely fighting to survive. |
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2011-01-30, 19:06 | Link #15950 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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If they killed out of Necessity, they would join up in a war they feel is just, and kill people that way. What they do, however, is masssacre random villages or random passerby, then try to either dodge or kill the authorities. |
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2011-01-30, 19:11 | Link #15951 | |
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And they do enlist their services for conflicts. They function as mercernaries for whoever needs them. If, while on a job, it requires them to destroy a village or two, that's just part of the job description. Look at Golgo 13. Would you call him evil? Not really, he just does what it takes to get the job done. But there's another example showing our morality is hardly absolute. It's okay to kill people in a war, apparently, and it's also okay to kill other criminals. It's a fundamental hypocracy of society.
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2011-01-30, 21:26 | Link #15952 | |
~Night of Gales~
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Despite nothing much 'happens', it's pretty tightly written and composed. Still, it doesn't change the fact that the world-building is ViviD's only really great factor. It's tight composition works wonders with some showing of the fight scenes and subtle hintings as well, but it's mixed in with a pace that is not too flattering. It's 'real', so to speak, because ViviD rarely forces any instances where it 'tells instead of showing' and thus the moments of world-building feel natural ( no 2 pages of blahblahblah exercise facilities blahblah, but rather actual pages dedicated to showing them going to these places and training ) but sometimes it doesn't tread the balance very well. In my opinion, partly due to the fact that the medium isn't just used for world-building, but also trying to cram in as much unseen character development for characters like Numbers, etc, which pushes things a little too dense while spreading the flow too thinly.
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2011-01-30, 21:34 | Link #15953 |
Banned
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I agree with Nightengale.
I don't think Vivid is bad; indeed, I like all the world-building stuff. It's just the blatant fanservice and very light plot that is going on. I was hoping for more of a background plot thread, linking the whole Claus/Olive thing to the present day, beyond just the Vivio/Ein bonding. Like the dreams revealing plot points that would become relevant later. I was also hope that there being more people around descended from Ancient Belkans like Victoria, to perhaps tie into this. A centuries old grudge or something. Until then, I'll just enjoy it for what I can get out of it, while not expecting too much. |
2011-01-30, 22:33 | Link #15955 | |
Banned
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And even if the TSAB has some jurisdiction, remember that it's not total. Orussia is an administered planet, and yet they still allow a bloodbath of a civil war to go on. And even on Mid-childa, the Saint Church has their own territory they administer, where the TSAB technically doesn't have authority. |
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2011-01-30, 22:48 | Link #15956 | |
Burst Mode
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The Huckebein didn't destroy Thoma's village on Vaizen. They were there, yes, but they didn't destroy the place. Fortis says as much and assures Thoma that if they were responsible, there'd be no survivors.
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2011-01-30, 23:24 | Link #15958 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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>Cypha horribly maims her >Isis attempts to rescue Touma from having to associate with people intent on basically brainwashing him >Deville attempts to decapitate her Real kid glove stuff. And for anyone who wants to compare them to the Wolkenritter again, I should point something out: before that episode of As, they were already shown to be more than just bad guys through interactions with themselves and Hayate. The Hucks haven't had more than two pages or so with each-other. Some of them even seem to dislike the others. |
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2011-01-30, 23:35 | Link #15959 | |||
Banned
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And regarding that point... Quote:
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adventure, manga, nanoha, seinen |
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