Amagami SS - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[eplipswich]

I'm just kinda sad ep 24 ended too quickly. I was so enjoying this episode that before i knew it, its over...oh well at least they had a great end though her new hairstyle kinda doesn't really fit her... (even though i do kinda understand why she went with shorter hair...)

Best moment was definitely Tsukasa's reaction when Junichi told her his true feelings :0

Now on to the secret character

[grandchaosSR]

9/10

So they gave her the best ending from the game eh...I wished they have done the same to Rihoko...

IMO the manga did a much better presentation. The anime version didn't have the proper build up to its climax maybe because they are concentrating too much on the Festival's success.

Now I'm kinda curious why Tsukasa cut her hair. She looks too much like Ai...

[karuroso]

Amazing conclusion, and an even better ten years after epilogue than Haruka! I'm really satisfied =D

@for those wondering about Yukari problem ~ Try to read Mentar's analysis in the past ep thread, i think there are some interesting points regarding this which makes a lot of sense.

[GundamZZ]

The girl looks like ten years old. ^_^;;

Spoiler:

[DragoonKain3]

I dunno, used to rate Tsukasa even higher than Haruka for being the more intriguing character, but that was before her violence was shown, and still isn't really jiving with me. Didn't want to mention it earlier to see if it would get better, but unfortunately, it hasn't. So sad, if it wasn't for it, she'd get my vote for 2nd best arc.

I mean, I've seen males gets abused much worse by females in other shows, but can't seem to recall it done in a show as serious as this. It's really feels different when the tone of the series isn't comedic.


So arcs IMO would be...
1) Kaoru
2) Haruka
3) Tsukasa
4) Rihoko
5+6) Can't be bothered to remember their names


And who is this Risa? I thought there were only 6 heroines? Is she some sort of secret character, or a new character for a new version of Amagami?

[eplipswich]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

And who is this Risa? I thought there were only 6 heroines? Is she some sort of secret character, or a new character for a new version of Amagami?

She's the secret 7th "boss"/heroine of the game. The one who had something to do with Junichi's 2 years ago. Won't say any further :0

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

So, I suppose this is one of those episodes where everyone with speculations can say they were correct in a way.

Well, it's nice that you're also feeling like that :P ... I do feel strongly vindicated though, tbh.

It became pretty clear at the beginning (as soon as she started the fake-crying) that this was all an act she was putting on after all -- a front thick enough to keep even Junichi out, but designed around a preconception that this was who he wanted her to be. So indeed, he just needed to affirm that he liked all sides of her (including that inner part) and she could be herself with him again.

And this - sorry - is where we have to agree to disagree if you honestly think so. Junichi's preference is crystal clear, and it's _NOT_ a balance between Inner and Facade. He never took notice of her during her initial Facade phase. Only after he found the Inner, he fell in love with her. He was shocked and moping around when the Facade was dominant. "It's not bad. BUT!" is what he sighed. During the confession, Tsukasa's tense question "Do you hate (the Facade)?", he could hardly say that he did. But his preference was crystal clear. He wanted the Inner. And he relaxed in genuine relief after her three-hit combo not because he is M, but because, as he put it, "The Ayatsuji I fell in love with still exists". This is who he REALLY wanted. Not "Balance".

It was due to that inner, honest part that he fell in love with her, so without that she just wasn't the same. The funny thing is that, in a way, this means that Junichi's idea was actually right -- that apologizing and getting everyone's help would make the festival work; that's just what she did and all was well with the festival.

That the end result was positive doesn't necessarily mean that the path taken towards it was the right one, though. I'm able to accept this point under the observation that the Three Bitches were behaving themselves in the last ep, so the (unwarranted and hypocritical) "apology" led to a "medetashi, medetashi" ending which included everyone in "the greater person relents" style. That was not what Junichi _really_ advocated though. He told her to deceive them to rope them in for help, since this was the only way he could see how Ayatsuji could fulfill her goal.

And it did come out after all that -- deep down -- she had an objective beyond just her pride and selfishness in making the festival a success as well (it wasn't just about looking good on her resume -- her kindness isn't all part of the facade), so he was right to assume that making the festival work was important to her (and more important than her pride).

This was less a matter of pride though, but of sincerity. The hypocritical-insincere approach yielded the desired result. But I'm still reluctant to call it the "right" way to do it.

And in the end, he was able embrace her honestly and completely, and showed that he understood that both sides of Tsukasa were good and he wanted it all. That along with the revelation brought things into balance, and now Tsukasa can be her "true self" with him (warts and all), demonstrated by her opening up and telling him about her past, and the change from an "agreement" to a "promise".

He didn't want "balance", that was never a theme. He wanted the Ayatsuji back that he lost (the Inner), and till the end he merely tolerated as "end-justifies-the-means" her manipulative side, but didn't care for it much. See his unaware-honest poke at her for "being unable to deceive a kid".

Anyway, to wrap this up. The solution to the issue was not "balance", it was the resuscitation by acceptance of her Inner. And it's most definitely not that he'd hold "both sides of her" in equal esteem, because her Facade isn't even genuine to begin with. It's not a different personality of her, it is an artificial construct which her Inner maintains. Ayatsuji was very clear about that, and it was also very visible. Her Inner was in control all along, she merely misread his intention, as indicated in my former analysis.

So in the end, it's a "perfect ending", but still a bit less than "pure"; it sort of validates that you might need to use a facade with others to get ahead, but you should at least be honest with those you love. Perhaps that itself is just being honest, too.

The "might" makes it easy for me to agree in the end, thanks. IMHO everyone wears a Facade in a way, it's called tact and politeness. And yes, sometimes it might be necessary/useful to bite back a justified tonguelashing for the Greater Good. As long as it's understood that it's the exception rather than the rule, which is "be yourself, especially to your loved ones".

And the epilogue was great, of course. Hope the Blu-Rays add one for the other heroines that were missing one.

Yep, some extra material would be most welcome

[Vexx]

well... at least this arc got a conclusion and an epilog. I was beginning to think they'd lost their format notes.

Not a bad arc, probably one of the top 2 or 3 - maybe the best in terms of story design and layout though a bit forced like most of the others (forced in terms of needing some special pivot to get the couple entangled, only Kaoru's seemed unforced in that regard).

Since I was mostly here for the omnibus idea - I'll save other comments for the overall thread.

[Mairsile]

A relatively decent ending. As an arc, I wish they wouldn't have watered down Ayatsuji as much. But it seems her personality received similar treatment as did a few other notable heroines. There wasn't as much drama as I had expected. I preferred the reason she gave in the manga for her behavior more than the one here because it addressed why Ayatsuji reacts the way she does towards her sister. Here, it isn't even touched upon due to the different reason.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Well, it's nice that you're also feeling like that :P ... I do feel strongly vindicated though, tbh.

I too felt strongly vindicated, which emphasizes that I think we're both just coming at it from different angles and having different ways of explaining the same thing that aren't easy to convey.

Originally Posted by Mentar

But his preference was crystal clear. He wanted the Inner. And he relaxed in genuine relief after her three-hit combo not because he is M, but because, as he put it, "The Ayatsuji I fell in love with still exists". This is who he REALLY wanted. Not "Balance".

Maybe it would help if I drew the contrast I'm making in a more straightforward way to explain what I mean by balance:

Tsukasa's Facade: "Virtuous" Outward Behaviour, Dishonest/Unpure Inner Motivation
Tsukasa's Inner Self (as shown previously): "Destructive" Outward Behaviour, Honest/Pure Inner Motivation

My version of "Balance": Both "Virtuous" and "Destructive" Behaviour as needed, Honest/Pure Inner Motivation


In other words, just because she's being her true self doesn't mean she can't still be a good person, so long as she's genuine, and that's what her little story at the end was supposed to show -- that although she had buried her good intentions under her facade, the kindness is genuine too and not just part of the facade. Junichi loved her inner self because she was being honest with her feelings and with him. He'd definitely rather have that (and whatever other behaviour that comes with it) than someone who's just for show with no fire or spark (no soul?).

I hope that makes a bit more sense... or maybe it's more confusing... I don't know. All I know is that I don't think we're really disagreeing, we just have different ways of looking at it. I'm trying to say that Tsukasa being honest with herself didn't mean that she had to be a prideful social misfit and a rebel that didn't get along with anyone (as she had been portrayed previously). She can be honest with herself and be genuinely kind. But absolutely: the main point is honesty.

Originally Posted by Mentar

That the end result was positive doesn't necessarily mean that the path taken towards it was the right one, though. [...] This was less a matter of pride though, but of sincerity. The hypocritical-insincere approach yielded the desired result. But I'm still reluctant to call it the "right" way to do it.

I don't disagree there at all; I don't particularly like that the "make up and play nice" strategy worked out. I was hoping it would fail, but... it does prove that he was right that it was "a" way of making the festival work.

(To be clear, I personally would have tried other avenues; her crocodile tears were pretty humiliating and her "relationship" with those girls... man those girls were so shallow... They definitely don't get any sympathy from me, in case that was what you thought I was implying.)

Originally Posted by Mentar

The "might" makes it easy for me to agree in the end, thanks. IMHO everyone wears a Facade in a way, it's called tact and politeness. And yes, sometimes it might be necessary/useful to bite back a justified tonguelashing for the Greater Good. As long as it's understood that it's the exception rather than the rule, which is "be yourself, especially to your loved ones".

I don't particular like this "moral of the story", but yeah: I think that is what it's trying to say. I too would have preferred more of the latter without the former caveat, but hey... like I said perhaps this is more realistic.



NOTE: I'm going to move the polls to another thread; they don't belong here.

[eplipswich]

Originally Posted by Mairsile

A relatively decent ending. As an arc, I wish they wouldn't have watered down Ayatsuji as much. But it seems her personality received similar treatment as did a few other notable heroines. There wasn't as much drama as I had expected. I preferred the reason she gave in the manga for her behavior more than the one here because it addressed why Ayatsuji reacts the way she does towards her sister. Here, it isn't even touched upon due to the different reason.

This is exactly what i feel though. Everything seems rushed, and i felt the impact wasn't enough. Even though it was a great end, i find that ayatsuji's arc would be perfect if more development was added in. However, considering 4 episodes, i felt they did a great job at handling this limit for Ayatsuji's arc, so kudos to AIC

[Ushima]

in all honesty...idk why she's the top rated girl in the series. . .i personally dont understand why anyone would love her (but then again, that difference makes me/us human)

Eh...i couldn't be with someone like that..maybe i'd have her as a close friend, but not girlfriend/wife. . .

im happy that all you guys are happy for this ending, but i'll stay with my love (rihoko; Simple, cute, and true)

Glad you all enjoyed your episode ;D

[grandchaosSR]

Originally Posted by Ushima

in all honesty...idk why she's the top rated girl in the series. . .i personally dont understand why anyone would love her (but then again, that difference makes me/us human)

Eh...i couldn't be with someone like that..maybe i'd have her as a close friend, but not girlfriend/wife. . .

im happy that all you guys are happy for this ending, but i'll stay with my love (rihoko; Simple, cute, and true)

Glad you all enjoyed your episode ;D

She's only 5th based on a Japanese gamers' list.

[eplipswich]

Originally Posted by Ushima

in all honesty...idk why she's the top rated girl in the series. . .i personally dont understand why anyone would love her (but then again, that difference makes me/us human)

Eh...i couldn't be with someone like that..maybe i'd have her as a close friend, but not girlfriend/wife. . .

im happy that all you guys are happy for this ending, but i'll stay with my love (rihoko; Simple, cute, and true)

Glad you all enjoyed your episode ;D

Actually more of top-rated "arc" for that matter. "Girl"-wise, she is debatable, but arc-wise i believe this is definitely one of the best, if not the best

[Knightrunner]

This feels like a true end of Amagami SS since it showed everybody celebrating Xmas with the exception of a certain twin sister.

Even though I hate to admit this the Facade helped create a wonderful Xmas festival. The author even made the Horrible 3 more acceptable in society. I guess the apology helped solved the greater of the two evils with the festival being a success and everybody enjoying themselves. I have to admit the apology in the previous episode maybe humilating, but it led to a more desirable outcome.

I'm glad Ayatsuji realize why she wanted to succeed which opened up her true character.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Ushima

in all honesty...idk why she's the top rated girl in the series. . .i personally dont understand why anyone would love her (but then again, that difference makes me/us human)

I find her lovable because she's got a strong personality, is extremely smart and capable, a fundamentally caring nature and a good sense of humor mixed with a trace of playful deviousness. And I guess it helps that she's exactly my type in the looks department, too.

Being with her would be a constant challenge, a struggle to keep up in the mutual contest, and for someone who is as competitive as me by nature, that would make for an interesting and fun life together.

You'll have to want and desire the challenge, though. If you don't feel up to it or want a calmer life, stay away by all means

im happy that all you guys are happy for this ending, but i'll stay with my love (rihoko; Simple, cute, and true)

Rihoko is diametrally opposed to Tsukasa. Tsukasa is very hi-maintenance, hi-yield. Rihoko is no-maintenance and defaults on you, no matter what you do. If that's your idea of a partnership, then Tsukasa is exactly the opposite of what you're looking for

[Knightrunner]

At first Tsukasa can be hi-maintenance, but I think once you reassure her that you will accept all her personalities and being loyal she can be a wonderful woman. I don't think you have to be competative to be in a relationship with her because she lets people off the hook. She is only harsh to herself when it comes to achievements.

[Ushima]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Being with her would be a constant challenge, a struggle to keep up in the mutual contest, and for someone who is as competitive as me by nature, that would make for an interesting and fun life together.

You'll have to want and desire the challenge, though. If you don't feel up to it or want a calmer life, stay away by all means

Ah..a challenge huh? Never actually thought of it like that...

Even so, that really isn't my type..

Originally Posted by Mentar

Rihoko is diametrally opposed to Tsukasa. Tsukasa is very hi-maintenance, hi-yield. Rihoko is no-maintenance and defaults on you, no matter what you do. If that's your idea of a partnership, then Tsukasa is exactly the opposite of what you're looking for

Yeah...that's my type of gal alrighty Hi-maintenance means having to put extra effort (or at least to me it does) I'd just like a girl I can sit back with, and enjoy the simple things. And sure she'd most likely be more dependent on me, but I like that ;D (being the guy she turns to, being the person she can always count on) that's my ideal romance anyways.

when it comes down to it, it's all preference (obviously) some like the challenge, some like simplicity, and others like a bunch of other stuff. I'll always take the Rihoko route, simple, full of love, cute/beautiful, and the fact that she can make goodies is a bonus too ;D

[grandchaosSR]

I think the only high maintenance girl in this series is Haruka.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Mentar

I find her lovable because she's got a strong personality, is extremely smart and capable, a fundamentally caring nature and a good sense of humor mixed with a trace of playful deviousness. And I guess it helps that she's exactly my type in the looks department, too.

Being with her would be a constant challenge, a struggle to keep up in the mutual contest, and for someone who is as competitive as me by nature, that would make for an interesting and fun life together.

If you take her the way she is at the end of the show/episode (once everything worked out), I totally agree with you. But for me personally, I don't know that I would have been able to handle the journey to get there. Perhaps it's just because the anime chose to really play up the contrast between her facade and her inner self, to the point where it makes her seem really unstable and dysfunctional. And that "all it took" was one conversation to make things right is a bit of a sore point to me about this episode; she had so little self-esteem that she placed it all on her perception of Junichi's judgement.

Give me a heroine who is all of the quoted without the "disorder", and I'm so there. Tsukasa gets there in the end, but I feel like it isn't quite right given the way they portrayed her in between. I would have struggled to see the truth in between the stark contrast (even though, given that this is anime, we knew where this was headed).