[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[Jan-Poo]

to me it was. I mean... shouldn't the personification of envy feast on other people's envy? Doesn't Mammon always try to make people greedy? Doesn't Belphegor always try to make people lazy? So why Leviathan works in a reverse way and becomes weaker if someone is envious? That doesn't make sense to me. There's also that whole numerical explanation that is exactly the same preposterous logic used with Krauss's "falcon punch".

Anyway that "fake" thing wouldn't be anything new. There are notable examples within the movie scenario. Think about "Hero" (2002). 2/3 of that movie is "fake". And there's also Rashomon by Kurosawa which is similar.

The gameboard theory can also work anyway. Whether it is just Beatrice's narration or a gameboard where Beatrice is the gamemaster, she'd still have (almost) total control over the events shown, so both theories can explain such oddities.

[LuckySovietStar]

Erm, Leviathan was not weaker "because of Kyrie's envy" if my memory is good. It was rather more like Kyrie's envy was more powerful. She didn't make her weaker. SHE was too strong for her. Or something.
Also, my father said, that there is a chance that someone stabbed in back can move without leaving a blood path for a while. Especially if thing they were stabbed is still in place.

Also, I liked Virgilla in both EP 3, and EP4. And I laughed at Falcon Punch scene, it was epic. And so nasuverse-ish. But I was sad they didn't make OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND joke. Still, Gargorge was better.

After ep5 you can say there is a very solid theory, but this is ep4 so I can't tell, send me a pm if you want to get spoiled.

Is this something you can make with knowledge of previous games? If yes, can't you just hint parts that I should pay special attention to?

[Volcanic]

Originally Posted by LuckySovietStar

Is this something you can make with knowledge of previous games? If yes, can't you just hint parts that I should pay special attention to?

Yeah. However, it's definitely easier to understand and more obvious if you look at the EP5 context.

[Jan-Poo]

Erm, Leviathan was not weaker "because of Kyrie's envy" if my memory is good. It was rather more like Kyrie's envy was more powerful. She didn't make her weaker. SHE was too strong for her. Or something.

If you want to nitpick yes it is as you say. But the problem is that Kyrie didn't become a superwhoman because of her envy, her envy just made her stronger in relation to leviathan, which in the end is the same thing as to say that levy is weaker against envious people. If this really worked this way then Kanon should have been pretty strong against Satan, and pretty weak against Lucifer, but it was quite the contrary.

[momobunny]

I guess it's because beginning with EP3, we start to see the magical rules contradicting each other. Normally Leviathan should have been able to win, but for some reason the rules were broken a bit and she lost to somebody who just had more envy than she did.

Just like with the whole "magic can beat bullets" to "bullets are anti-magic and a witch's worst enemy"... and... well, basically almost everything Ange-Beatrice manages to do.

[June 1983]

Personally, weird contradictions like that just cement for me the idea that either: magic doesn't exist, or the idea of magic we are presented with at first by Beatrice is a lie. I don't know, maybe it's just Ryukishi fucking up. It seems to me though that the concept of magic is intentionally supposed to be unstable from arc to arc, with certain things about it changing depending on who is winning or losing or which side is stronger.

[momobunny]

I think it's done on purpose, I doubt he'd screw with the story and the concept of magic that much on accident. I mean, if you think about it, the point of the game is to prove that a witch didn't kill everybody. By having one magical rule contradicting another, the magical side begins to fall apart and the true story is shown bit by bit.

Magic only seems to be covering up what really happens, so it makes sense for the events to change the magical rules whenever it's convenient.

[Change of Pace]

Finished Ep.4 on Friday~ While Ep.3 is still my reigning favourite champion, this was definitely a close second - the fight scenes were especially appreciated. Jessica and George against their respective demons was just kickass, while OS Siestas and Virgilia's Lia's chase was sheer hilarity. (gapgapgap!) Battler's 'sin' is also a point of great intrigue; I have no clue at all what it could be. As of right now, I'm assuming he's Kyrie's son. After all, considering Ange's similar hair colour, it would make sense is red-headed if a recessive genetic trait of the Sumedera family! But speaking of Ange, a mystery left unsolved is what on earth did she see on the roof of the boat captain's house? I'm assuming it's revealed later on, because whatever it was had to have been something impressive for her to realize her connection to her fate. Damn, now I'm even more curious!

Oh, I also can't forget; I hated Rosa more than ever before, and sympathized greatly with MARIA. Her 'uu-uu' was completely redefined in meaning after this ep, wasn't it. Sakutaro is so adorable, Uryu~

[Rhysfel]

But speaking of Ange, a mystery left unsolved is what on earth did she see on the roof of the boat captain's house? I'm assuming it's revealed later on, because whatever it was had to have been something impressive for her to realize her connection to her fate. Damn, now I'm even more curious!

Spoiler for What she could have seen:

It is believed that Ange saw Sakutaro, Rosa could have repaired him or created a new one, and that's why Ange could revive Sakutaro in 1998

[Tjfarmer]

Some of the most common theories about the resurrection of Sakutaro/what ange saw on boat house being sakutaro is....

Rosa's company later mass produced Sakutaro (Beatrice couldn't finish saying in red that Sakutaro was the only Sakutaro)

Sakutaro never was ripped up by Rosa, but Maria being crazy and all thought she did, but she actually lost him on the boat

Rosa repairing him/making a new one.

[sora1412]

Originally Posted by Rhysfel

But speaking of Ange, a mystery left unsolved is what on earth did she see on the roof of the boat captain's house? I'm assuming it's revealed later on, because whatever it was had to have been something impressive for her to realize her connection to her fate. Damn, now I'm even more curious!

Spoiler for What she could have seen:

It is believed that Ange saw Sakutaro, Rosa could have repaired him or created a new one, and that's why Ange could revive Sakutaro in 1998

Spoiler for just anything really...:

Didn't Ange "saw" Sakuratou a lot of times in 1998? What she probably saw is either her family or Battler

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

that's actually a good point, Kinzo made the riddle so it could be solved, and that means a path to reach the gold exists, there's no way he sealed it. The well that is supposed to be the entrance in ep4 maybe it isn't the entrance at all. The corpses were placed in a way so Battler would think so, but in reality the well is just a well.



Wow no that' can't be. It is said that the Mansion is 2 km far from the Kuwadorian, and the chapel is just behind the mansion. The trip you are theorizing would be 4km, and another 4km to get back. Did Eva and Rosa walked 8km?!

I just realized, what about the garden warehouse? If there is a secret tunnel/door into Kuwadorian, the distance would not be as great as the Church.

[Tjfarmer]

She saw an imaginary Sakutaro that she made based off Maria's Diary, but never the physical Sakutaro.

[Leinne]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

OS Siestas was my favorite part. =P

Though my view of Virgilia changed in EP4... about as much as Takano when I saw her go "Nipa!". ^^;

Don't worry about that Virgilia's impression is like a roller-coaster, next ep is like ep3 again

[vandakiara]

ok I had to quote this from the EP3 thread:

Originally Posted by Kazane

Okay, I finally completed Episode 3.



Well, I'd go on and on about my trust in most of the cast being mercilessly trampled on like that, and that even the super-paper isn't going to console me anymore. But I'm too depressed to do so now.

No matter what, this Episode definitely ranks as the best among the three, in my opinion. While there certainly were many scenes to praise, I haven't the energy to, now. Betraying one's trust sure is an effective way to kill someone. Battler probably felt the same, seeing the supposedly reformed Beato revert to her original self and Virgilia becoming... ugh, I'll stop here. At this rate, probably even Bernkastel would end up like them in the future games.

oh my, that's a rather good prediction X'D

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

She saw an imaginary Sakutaro that she made based off Maria's Diary, but never the physical Sakutaro.

At the futon shop Ange sees something in the display case that many people believe was a real Sakutaro stuffed animal. At that same time she was talking to the imaginary Sakutaro.

Beato also couldn't deny that the stuffed animal was unique:

That stuffed animal is a special stuffed animal! Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only, .........ah, ...............u, ...............ah......

If it wasn't a Sakutaro stuffed animal then what do you think it was that she saw?

[Tjfarmer]

She saw something that proved the Boat Captain killed her entire family, she then killed the boat captain, fled to the island, and committed suicide to be with her family.

At that point shes the head of the family, and I wouldn't put anything past the head of the Ushiromiya family :P

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

She saw something that proved the Boat Captain killed her entire family, she then killed the boat captain, fled to the island, and committed suicide to be with her family.

At that point shes the head of the family, and I wouldn't put anything past the head of the Ushiromiya family :P

That may work out but I haven't heard that theory before and it sounds kind of crazy.

He can kill someone and then be on his boat (technically off the island) at the time of any red declaration of only 17 people on the island.

Spoiler for ep5 thing:

He was mentioned at the beginning of the story so it doesn't violate the knox rule.

That would also mean that Battler's sin has to do with him.

[Ithekro]

Scratched the paint on his boat, or threw up in it.

[mizou]

can someone list the chronology of events that concerns ange / ange-beatrice
because I'm very confused . some events ( please complete them )
- the meeting between bern and ange on the top of the building
- ange ( ange- beatrice ? ) summon 6 ( or + ) stakes and fall in sleep after
- first meeting between ange beatrice and battler on the golden land ( she save him )
- meeting between lambda and ange
- conflict with maria
..

[TsundereCake]

Spoiler for END OF EP.4 SPOILERS:

What is the romanji of Beato's "who am I?" statement?