2007-04-07, 20:32 | Link #583 |
Dansa med oss
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 36
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My best advice would be to diversify your learning mediums. I've used a language learning CD-ROM, which got me through basic grammar and basic vocabulary, Hiragana and Katakana. I'd say this is the best tool for starting from scratch.
Kanji is being acquired through a mixture of systematic study and osmosis/dictionary digging. Naturalness would be covered in anime, manga, and other books that are not written with the aim of teaching Japanese to foreigners, unless you're reading something that was originally written for a Japanese audience and later compiled with vocabulary and grammar assistance. These are usually for intermediate to upper intermediate students, though. The number one thing that will help you learn the language is exposure. The more you hear and see it used, the more familiar it will become, and the easier it will be to absorb new information. |
2007-04-07, 20:35 | Link #584 | ||
Gregory House
IT Support
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Of course, more complex and narrative versions of Japanese prove more difficult to understand. That's why now I'm in my second year of studying Japanese. Quote:
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2007-04-07, 20:52 | Link #585 | |
Dansa med oss
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 36
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Some people prefer to study, but I was always that guy who only opened his textbook in class and breezed through every test without ever studying, so I don't really even know how to learn things by rote memorization. |
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2007-04-10, 14:59 | Link #587 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.
Age: 38
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I'm learning through osmosis, lol. My dad speaks enough daily Japanese, enough to complain about the weather, or that his head hurts, or for us to run down to the store to buy him some car parts. My brother and I speak and read fluently. The only hurdle in my path is kanji. Seems to be a problem with lots of people here. I guess, we all have different ways of taking it in (taking it apart?)
My brother counts strokes and reads Kanji de manga, and he practices writing everyday. I can't. My brain's a sieve. I read a lot of manga, but ones that are furiganaless are starting to nudge me on the shoulders, like " Hey, get it through your thick head!" If I don't learn, I can't read Tenjho Tenge or Honey and Clover the way I want to. But I've learned to recognize a lot kanji. I may not be able to read it properly, but I at least know what they stand for. Quote:
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2007-04-10, 15:25 | Link #588 | |
Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The ones like: 食べる めしあがる いただく 行く いらっしゃる まいる 来る いらっしゃる まいる 言う おっしゃる お言いする 会う おあいになる おめにかかる する なさる いたす ・・・ |
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2007-04-11, 21:48 | Link #590 | ||
日本語を食べません!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 41
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It might help you get out of the habit of speaking like a 16-year old rude boy. |
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2007-04-11, 22:07 | Link #591 | |
Gregory House
IT Support
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2007-04-11, 22:17 | Link #592 |
Dansa med oss
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 36
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Dropping anime entirely seems a bit extreme to me. I suggest trying to refrain from imitating the speech patterns in anime and instead usuing it for vocabulary reinforcement.
A real problem with politeness arises when teaching foreigners Japanese. Children in Japan speak in a manner that would be considered rude coming from a person who's of age to know better, but a foreigner learning Japanese essentially is a child in that language. This may be why the somewhat impractical 'masu' form of speech is the first taught. Honestly, the only occasions I ever use that form of speech is when meeting someone for the first time (though usually only for the first minute of the conversation) and when offering my opinion/suggestion to someone older than myself. Whether this is technically correct, I don't know, but no one's ever corrected me on it. |
2007-04-11, 22:24 | Link #593 |
Gregory House
IT Support
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Actually, the ~masu form is probably best used in a situation where you're totally stranger to the person and his or her position, that is, a standard way of speaking to someone in the street. Or, at least, that's how I see it.
PS: Our avvies are so similar that it's making me dizzy.
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2007-04-11, 23:16 | Link #594 |
Dansa med oss
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 36
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Of course, it's useful when needed, but unless you're constantly meeting new people (actually living and working in Japan), you'll rarely use it. In fact, one thing to watch out for is that it can be considered somewhat rude to continue using polite speech with friends, as you may come across as distant. Unless you're a . Then it sounds fine, but male and female speech is a whole new can of worms which I'm not wanting to get into for someone who's still in their first year of Japanese.
Bottom line: Don't shrug off politeness, but don't make yourself crazy over it, either. I've found that being a gaijin will let you get away with just about anything once. PS: I had mine first :P |
2007-04-12, 01:00 | Link #595 |
神
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chi-town
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Wow, people actually take classes for this? I started learning last Sunday and now I pretty much can read hiragana/katakana and uh a few kanji without fail.
Having someone to talk/write in japanese greatly helps in absorbing vast amounts of information. On the rudeness, putting ~desu 「です」 or ~masu 「ます」 even once in a phrase makes it not so... rude. |
2007-04-12, 06:22 | Link #597 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
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My japanese teacher doesnt get made at me for being totally rude at my japanese. She says it good to absorb japanese culture from animes, it shows tham im well familiar with japanese sounds. When it comes to pronouncing, i have good ear in my class, but not good memory.
Yeah adding masu and desu makes it less rude. Instead of "nei yo", you say "dewa arimasen desuyo" Actually i find polite japanese sucks, too long and i like how rude japanese tend to sound. Sometimes i spill out "Attarimai ja nei ka yo!" or "en da?". My teacher just laughs. I think later, i would get screwed for this. |
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hiragana |
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