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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 Series Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 365 | 44.95% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 199 | 24.51% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 92 | 11.33% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 76 | 9.36% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 31 | 3.82% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 20 | 2.46% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 9 | 1.11% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 4 | 0.49% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 2 | 0.25% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 14 | 1.72% | |
Voters: 812. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-09-14, 10:02 | Link #1401 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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you can only claim to be "necessarily evil" if it is actually necessary to BE evil otherwise you're just evil and he admited to C.C that he would go through with his plan even if nunnaly would die as a result and if he is willing to sacrifice the one person on earth he loves the most for the sake of this plan...
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2009-09-14, 10:43 | Link #1402 | |
一刀繚乱
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: アッバス
Age: 33
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Well, it was his choice anyway. He could have chosen to sign the agreement with the Union of Nations in the first place. Instead he decided to continue the war and it ended up with more destruction as well. Could be a director's excuse to drag out the series. However, I feel that it should have ended at 21, and a third series to show what happened after that. Perhaps lelouch felt that he would not be forgiven anyway. The main reason why the Black Rebellion failed in season 1 was because of lelouch's care for nunnally, which is considered a weakness for a commander. Now, he probably learnt his lesson that sacrifices have to be made in making choices. Heck, he was even willing to fire FREIJA in ep 25 to show that he was in command here. I dunno about him acting like a martyr, since in all retrospect, he was still the most powerful man in the world (At least politically).
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K can anyone here help me with this? My question would be why do you think lelouch come up with the zero requiem in the first place? Did he get tired of living due to the setbacks that he had? Or was it Suzaku was there, ready to kill him in revenge of Euphy? Or was it something else that we dont noe? |
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2009-09-14, 10:51 | Link #1403 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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again
necessary evil requires that it be necessary to BE evil in order to prevent a greater evil in lelouch's case, he chose to be evil without it actaully being necessary if he DECIDES that he WANTS to do zero-requiem, without it actually been necessary, then he is not necessarily evil i could LIKE him when he was being necessarily evil i can like him when he's evil because of his own stupid pride wont let him just sign a piece of paper and end the war
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2009-09-14, 13:42 | Link #1404 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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This did not really change that much during that final arc. Lelouch's decisions served his own beliefs and interests first, leaving the world's specific needs second. To do otherwise would go against his character. Strictly speaking, until then he had been doing everything for Nunnally, to find out the truth about his mother's murder and avenge her. Remove that from the equation and he would lose over half of his desire to rebel. Was that really necessary? Nunnally herself didn't want him to go outside and fight, the truth about his mother's murder was known by C.C. and there wouldn't be a need to fight Britannia as a whole instead of just V.V. Zero Requiem was a plan that largely depended on his desire for punishment first, wrapped around his ideals about how the world should be able to move on in the process, and on the need to stop Schneizel's Damocles second. He didn't need to go through all those motions in order to prevent Schneizel from deploying Damocles, but then he would have to be a different person without any of the emotional baggage that was also dictating his moves. Last edited by Xander; 2009-09-14 at 14:07. |
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2009-09-14, 14:11 | Link #1405 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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opposing an empire as powerful and "evil" as britannia is a necessary thing
maybe not for lelouch on a personal level, but opposition to evil is always necessary combating against a tyranical racist force such as that is a noble goal in itself and if this requires "evil" acts, then it is a "necessery evil" which makes it excusable, even if not acceptable but once lelouch gained hold of britannia, the war would have ended the moment he said so at THAT point, any other move he makes save for just signing a peace treaty is unnecessary and if his moves are also evil, then they are an "UN-necessary evil" or in other words, just plain evil
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2009-09-14, 14:15 | Link #1406 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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It's not like a treaty would have eradicated all war.
Who knows how many wars Lelouch had anticipated in the near future if he hadn't gone through with Zero Requiem? It's no permanent solution, but I don't think his pride and issues were his only reason. That's not how it was portrayed, be it in the show itself or interviews with the staff. But either way, I recently arrived at the conclusion that Lelouch was one of the most moral characters of the show. Which mostly means Code Geass has a lot of highly immoral characters, but... oh well. My pet moral theory has spoken. xD
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2009-09-14, 14:17 | Link #1407 | |
Banned
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2009-09-14, 14:18 | Link #1408 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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neither would zero-requiem
in fact, its the one thing that its sure not to do, because thats the down side it has to shnizel's plan so long as there is ambition left unchecked, there would be war
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2009-09-14, 14:20 | Link #1409 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Yes, Zero Requiem will not bring eternal peace. However, it was said that Lelouch's friends will most likely face a "better tomorrow" now, and since this is fiction, it's highly possible that there will be more than a century without war thanks to Lelouch. In the long-run, he might have saved a lot more people than he killed.
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2009-09-14, 14:26 | Link #1410 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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in the same way that WWI and WWII ended in 1918 and 1945 do you know how many conflicts there have been since WWII ended all over the world fiction or no fiction, its not reasonable to imagine a single DAY without a war raging somewhere on earth once lelouch was gone (without him to oppress the combatants) i give it two, maybe three days till the next war starts somewhere on earth it might not involve japan, and it might not involve britannia but it will happen because it ALWAYS happens it may be a better future then what was happening for most of the show (with a world war raging) but its not an end to war even kallen admits that some problems still remain
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2009-09-14, 14:30 | Link #1411 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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There will be no war if they don't make a third season that turns Lelouch into a delusional idiot. But... I think I'm too lazy to discuss something that is purely speculation. I still say there are few characters in the show more moral than Lelouch, though.
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2009-09-14, 14:33 | Link #1412 | ||
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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doesnt mean that there is no war anywhere and for some reason, i find the idea of lelouch's egocentric master-plan turning into a "nice job breaking it hero" moment very in character for lelouch Quote:
who is more moral, and why ?
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2009-09-14, 14:43 | Link #1413 | |||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Then let me rephrase: they'd be crushing the awesomeness of Zero Requiem, and show that choosing to believe in mankind (even if not enough not to deceive people) wasn't such a good idea, after all. Lelouch and Suzaku took a gamble, and it's one that should pay off. Quote:
Actually, it's a bit more complicated than this, but essentially, that's what I believe.
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2009-09-14, 14:52 | Link #1414 | ||
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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maybe
and maybe not probably not since the one thing lelouch was able to do with his brilliant plan, was destroy a very large amount of the worlds sakuradite supply guess what happens when the worlds supply of energy drops sharply people fight over the resources Quote:
it should be one that Z-R created one that would NEVER have turned into a villain and put world peace at risk if lelouch hadnt acted like an ass a nice little "nice job breaking it hero" spin on it call it karma Quote:
and i dont completely agree about suzaku, specificlly about the idea that he is more moral during Z-R then before it thats not "few people more moral" being more moral then the main villain is not something to brag about especially since its not by much compare him to euphie, nunnaly, kallen, xing-ke, cornellia, jeremia, and the likes characters who are NOT the main bad guy of the show
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2009-09-14, 15:02 | Link #1415 | ||||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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I'd rather have a sequel with lots of Clovis instead. Quote:
Anyway, we clearly have different believes. Quote:
Season 1 Kallen... well, the terrorists were clearly endangering civilians even though they appatently didn't believe they could beat Britannia with their methods. Without Lelouch, all of them would most likely just have ruined people's lives. Xing-Ke wasn't fighting for a better world until later on. Jeremiah and Cornelia actively helped Britannia cause the suffering Lelouch wanted to end. The whole Ashford Academy didn't do anything to change things. Just look at Rivalz, who was much more worried about coming late to school than people who'd been victims of a car crash. Euphie... well, we don't know what she could or couldn't have achieved in the long-run. But Euphie is probably the closest to a saint Code Geass has, so comparing Lelouch to her would be pointless. Also, Schneizel, too, was more moral than a lot of other people, in my opinion.
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2009-09-14, 15:07 | Link #1416 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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thats not comparing
thats just naming random faults nunnaly not helping suzaku to become accepted is NOT comparable with what lelouch does neither is xing-ke "not fighting for better world until later on" kallen's "not believing they could beat Britannia with their methods" or rivals showing more concern about being late for school then a car crash that is not comparable with what lelouch does and maybe we should take this to lelouch's thread ?
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2009-09-15, 01:52 | Link #1417 |
Pancakes
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
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What makes Lelouch special, in comparison to every other single character you mentioned just now is pretty obvious. He think on a global scale.
Xing-Ke dun give a rat's ass about the world, he just want to kill the Eunuchs and get his precious Tianzi back and show her the outside world, and he is content with that. Without Zero appearing, the Chinese Union will disintegrate, and prolly more wars will take place. Kallen? I love her certainly, but her scope of ambition does not expand past good ol Japan and kicking good ol Britannian ass out of her home country. Well, half-home country, I guess. Nunally? She just wants to live happily with her older brother. The End. Cornelia... As far as I can remember, all she wants to do is find out about Geass in season 2, and in season 1, she just basically rules whatever areas she receives. She could care less about changing the world. Orenji-kun. Meh, again, not much ambition for him. Until halfway through Season 2, we didn't even know what the hell he was good for except getting repetitively mocked. Euphie. Yes, she wants a nice, kinder world, but she doesn't even come close to having the power needed to change the entire world. Even Japan is difficult enough... Ashford Academy people...they are normal people, not much to say. Schneizel... comparatively speaking, Lelouch was more moral, because he would rather sacrifice himself rather than ruling the world through fear of getting..FLEIAed. Schneizel, as Cornelia stated, would make a good king, but his methods were worse than Lelouch's, no matter what you say. And Lelouch was really being very selfless, he could've just geassed another prince/princess to do Zero Requiem, but he chose to do it himself. And I am pretty sure I am way on the wrong thread by now.
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2009-09-15, 02:48 | Link #1418 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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he just fights for a different concept then the others everyone else you mention fight FOR something, fighting to defend something lelouch fights AGAINST something lelouch fights because he wants to DESTROY BRITANNIA, not free japan, or protect china or whatever he fights to destroy Britannia for revenge
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2009-09-15, 06:48 | Link #1419 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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And before, he also wanted to "create a gentle world" for his sister. Hm... I think I disagree on Schneizel being less moral because he didn't sacrifice himself, though. He didn't choose Damocles because he was so fond of his life, but because he didn't have any faith in humanity - as Kanon said, he has no desires for himself. I still think he's less moral, though, because I like to throw in a bit of consequentialism.
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2009-09-15, 09:18 | Link #1420 | |
Pancakes
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
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And well, I still think that he fights on a global scale. After he destroyed Britannia, that reasoning is moot really, cause by then he should have nothing left to destroy. And everyone else I mentioned did fight for something, and to defend something, but they are DOMESTIC. None of those characters I mentioned have a plan that covers the ENTIRE world, they only care about Japan, China, Ashford Academy, etc.. And in that respect, Lelouch does think about the future making him in a way...more moral.
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