Immortality - How could this not be a curse?

[Xacual]

In Kore wa Zombie's case it wouldn't be a curse because everyone, other than the normal humans, is pretty much immortal too. Ayumu is never going to go through the hardship of losing all his friends by outliving them.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Probably depends on what you do. I think I would enjoy it purely for the fact that I'd lived history, but I'd see myself being one of those hermit types, that sit on their mountain and watch the world go by.

Speaking of vampires, I always liked that girl, Helena, from Hellsing that just wanted to sit in her library and read as she had done for the last few hundred years or whatever. That would be me I think.

Although, regardless of you became bored or not, it would have a profound psychological effect on you. It would be different for everyone but some degree of apathy towards the rest of humanity, I think would be inevitable. But it would depend on the person.

I always liked a simple analogy or thought experiment; consider dogs. 15 years is a good life, 105 in dog years. For a human 100 years is pretty tops to - 700 years by a dogs reckoning. If a dog could reason and communicate we'd be seen as nigh immortal to them, and it hurts us to see them die (dogs do have emotions and attachment as well). From that I guess you could say time really is relative. I'd probably also say it would be more the emotional impact of traumatic events piling up then time itself bearing down on you that would break you. But avoid those events, or distancing yourself (Emotional detachment) would probably stay off negative effects.

Dogs live fast, we live slow, Galapagos tortoises live even slower (200 yr life spans?).

Meh, the topic is a little to deep for me at 1am.

Actually that ties in to something I've wondered about the perception of time. Anyone ever notice how time went by so much more slowly when you were a child? The biggest example for me is a car ride. They felt excruciatingly long at times during childhood, now I can zone out and get through a 30 minute ride in what feels like, comparatively speaking, much less time than as a kid. Intrigued by this, I've read that time perception is linked to how much time one has lived. If that's the case, does that mean when I'm 40 a day is going to go by even more quickly then now? And even quicker at 80? Or does the time-quickening taper off once you reach physical maturity? If perception of time gets quicker and quicker the more one lives, an immortal would eventually perceive a century as barely any time at all...

Another point related to time perception - can we be sure a dog perceives time as you have said? What if a dog perceives it just as we do, and their life spans really are so tragically short, even from their perspective? More interesting, what if a dog perceives time so slowly that, even though their physical lives are much shorter than ours, they actually "experience" more life in their short time on Earth than we do in our longer lives? What if to the house fly that may only live several days, those days last the length of several millenia? So many possibilities for philosophical inquiry.

[LeoXiao]

Think about this: With immortality, you don't just live for a few thousand years, or are able to experience the whole of human history. You literally exist forever. As you get older and older and nothing else of interest exists (which will happen at some point because you have infinite time), your memories and nostalgia of the past will be the only things left, until they too warp and disappear. Either you would go crazy or cease to live consciously (sort of like how none of us mortals really pay attention our hearts beating) , or both.

[C.A.]

The only reason I would want immortality is because I want to observe the universe.

People who think that one would get bored just do not have a broad enough perspective.

I want to see our sun become a red giant in 5 billion years time, while I'm at Alpha Centauri, and another 5 billion years later I want to see the result of the collision of the Milky Way and Andromeda Galaxy while I'm on my way to the Pin Wheel Galaxy.

If I can live forever, I'll probably have encountered so technologically advanced civilisations who have made themselves immortal. I would be able to experience countless cultures and learn so much about the universe will all the time I can have.

[Akito Kinomoto]

I dunno who'd want to live forever. I'd think anyone would end up with too many problems and eventually have an emotional breakdown wishing for his or her own death. At best maybe someone can withdraw into him or herself but that's already overestimating the extent of mental resiliency. Then there's all the physical problems 'cause immortality and invincibility ain't the same thing; eternal life is meaningless if my body is destroyed by an exploding whatever.

Besides, if you knew you weren't going to die would you actually feel inclined to do anything with your life? I mean even a hermit would probably spend as much time as possible doing the trivial things he or she loves to do 'cause you're not gonna be wasting your own time when you're dead.

[lml99]

Immortality is much greater than we can really comprehend. An integral part of humanity itself is mortality, the ability and fragility that will undoubtedly spell your end one day.

The way i see it, immortality can take different meanings, and I have different views about each one.

Comprehensible immortality: Through some divine intervention or haywire experiment, you have been granted the ability of immortality (If you don't have the gift of eternal youth, you'd be doomed to an eternity of observation. Eventually, I hypothesize, senility will take over and you won't amount to much more than a vegetable with its eyes and ears open.) However, one thing is certain: Through this way, you can not hope to exist forever. Everything in existence is transient, nothing is permanent. Through some way, an entity will find a need and an effective formula to kill you, no matter your defenses, or you may just encounter some contrived coincidence of the Universe and end up dying anyways. In essence, this is false immortality. Your loved ones around you may die, but you will always be able to find a new way to achieve something that can provide purpose and amusement.

True immortality: How this is achieved is incomprehensible (maybe I'm just taking the easy way out, but I don't have a better answer.). This is the true transcendence of mortality, the transformation into something of divine proportions. Maybe you'll go through the stages of a psuedo-immortal, but eventually you'll reach something of a transcendence. What happens after this, I don't know. As this is the ultimate evolution from humanity, Neither any of you or I could possibly understand this. At this stage, perhaps you won't be able to affect the material world at all. Perhaps everything will simply become to insignificant to address. Or even more likely than the former two is that it's something we're incapable of understanding.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Paradoxine

I was looking over a couple pages of comments in the Kore wa Zombie Desu ka thread earlier today and I was suprised to find people arguing that Immortality wasn't a curse and in fact that they would "never get bored".

They're naive idiots, who don't know anything. At the same time, they could be people who fear death so much, such that they'd rub off the "boredom" reason as excuse not to fear death.

Anyone here happen to be pet owners?

Well, not to equate humans with pets, but imagine being immortal -- and having a loved one, who is not immortal. Guess what? You'd end up outliving your loved one, by a very significantly greater amount of time.

At times, I do think about my cats under these terms. I will outlive my cats; and therefore, someday, they'll be gone by way of death. Such this the case for any pet owner.

[Vexx]

What I can say is that 54 years seems like a blink of time and I'm going to be thoroughly Not Done if the timer rings in the next 10, 25, 50 or 100 years. New friends, new hobbies, new careers, cherished memories... What I do know is that if you're not a passive slug and have some self-initiation you're going to think 120 years is not enough time.

The question doesn't ask whether you're the only immortal or if the species has become immortal (which makes a difference, imo). For the species, *Immortality* may be an issue particularly as the entire universe winds down. There's also "relative immortality" (simply very long-lived ala Horo or Arwen) and factual immortality (doesn't compute with a finite universe).

This has been addressed in science fiction (Heinlein) but one of the bigger problems is simply memory management. After a while, linear chronology starts to break down. Even now, after 54 years I remember WHAT happened back to my nursery school days... but remembering the order of events takes a pencil and paper. Some of my friends have made personal timelines to help them manage early memories. I don't necessarily see uploading my *mind* to the "cloud" but I can see storing memories and information there via implant. Imagine trying to keep 1000 years of memories at least fuzzily in order. A lot of careful pruning is needed.

QUALITY of life is a separate issue, maintaining mobility and functionality - both of which are mechanical challenges.

I don't necessarily want to live forever... but it'd be nice to keep living as long as I'm enjoying the ride.

[Nightbat®]

The negative impacts of life will linger longer and stronger than the best things in life
Hell, I've already experienced enough crap to decide against immortality

At a certain point, you'll become detached from your emotions
There's a reason why you remember your first icecream/kiss/rollercoaster ride/etc
It's because they were new and fresh

Life is like a box of chocolates, now imagine eating chocolate for longer than you can imagine

[C.A.]

Seems like alot of people are focusing alot on the negative sides of life and how immortality magnifies them. Immortality can also allow lots of positive things and magnify them as well.

If I know I'm going to live forever, I'll make sure I can get a good enough income for a start and then put huge amounts of money in banks to earn interest and make great long term investments as well as contribute to scientific research that would benefit my immortality.

I'll literally have forever to think and plan ahead, record stuff that needs to be done and slowly enjoy bits of life while making those plans happen.

As long as I don't waste thousands and millions, I'm sure I'll become quite wealthy from investments as well as business over such a long amount of time. Meanwhile my scientific and medical investments will come one by one for the next few milenia and I'll equip myself ready to explore the universe.

People always say life is short, especially if they live a busy life. I'm only 25 and yet I'm already thinking there's not much time to do anything. Mostly because I'm an animator and we never have enough time to finish our stuff even if we sleep for 4 hours every other day.

[Terrestrial Dream]

The biggest problem with immortality is that the universe will eventually end. So the universe will nothing be more than a cold desolate place. Now imagine this you are a immortal and for some reason you go beyond the law of physics and is able to function, such as thinking and moving. Afterward there will be literally nothing to do in the universe as nothing can work anymore. I would think that a living in a dark, cold, and empty universe for rest of your immortal life would be hell with no hope of any change. So I actually consider immortality as a curse.

But immortality plus some way to travel through time and dimension? Now that would be quite awesome.

[Sumeragi]

Sort of like the ending of

Spoiler for not to spoil:

Mirai Nikki, no?

[erneiz_hyde]

Why not just grant a literal meaning to the phrase "sleeping for eternity"?

That way I'd assume even eternity could pass by in a flash. Not dead, but sleeping.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Sort of like the ending of

Spoiler for not to spoil:

Mirai Nikki, no?

I only read the manga so I don't know about the anime, but yes sort of like that.

[Seitsuki]

Men of Tanith! Do you want to live forever?

Seriously, life is overrated. Welcome, hope you enjoy your stay, when you leave please shut the door. Why would you want to continue to live just for the sake of being alive? I mean it's not like we live in a fictional world of awesome, I'm barely 20 and already pretty disillusioned with the place >_>

[erneiz_hyde]

That made me remember
Life: a sexually transmitted disease with 100% mortality rate.

Btw since we're talking about immortality, how about reincarnation? Complete with carried over memories, it's like a new game+!

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Btw since we're talking about immortality, how about reincarnation? Complete with carried over memories, it's like a new game+!

That depends on what one is reincarnated as. One's past personality might be something that the "current" personality does not like at all. I'm sure most people have all they can handle with their own experiences already let alone the weight of an extra life.

And anyway, all the planning in the world and all the mindset of enjoying the experience won't mean much when something bad beyond your imagination happens.

[LeoXiao]

Death is immortality.

"The skull remarked: 'In death, there is no lord above, nor vassal below, nor the matter of four seasons. Unbridled, you take the longevity of heaven and earth as your own; even the joys of the royal throne cannot surpass it.'"

After you have gotten so bored of eternal life, you will be in effect dead since your consciousness will have ceased to bother itself with reality.


I for one think that it is enough to know happiness as a general concept, having more or less of it before you die is not so important. The main thing is not to spend your years alive, or your final moments, in suffering.

[monster]

Whether I inevitably view immortality to be a curse will depend on the nature of my being as an immortal and the environment in which I exist for eternity.

[NoemiChan]

What scares me about immortality is not just seeing your love ones die one by one but also... you will be sure that you'll be present when the Earth is destroyed. If you survive it, lucky for you... You'll be the only human remaining left.

Pray the aliens get you...