US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[Mr. DJ]

My god I want to punch people in the face for STILL discussing Obama's birth certificate. Guess how many fucks I give that his lawyers said it was a forgery? Stop paying attention to nonsensical bullshit about someone that has lived in this country for years and you know...PAY ATTENTION TO REAL ISSUES!!!

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Romney advocates extenstion of Student Loan Relief (curbs the interest rates):
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...ef?ft=1&f=1001
Early sign of trying to move back to the near right from the extremist positions in the primary. Not quite near the position of re-assessing the loan value against the job market or loan forgiveness (both methods already proposed for home mortgages to keep it from complete implosion as housing devalues).

if either Obama or Rommy want to help students. They would make it so student Loans can discharge in normal bankruptcy. You would see just how fast the loan companies would accommodate students if the student can just file bankruptcy and walk away form it.

[GDB]

The problem is, unless the amount of loans needed also went down, very few would actually care if they were accomodated. File bankruptcy, or pay off $80k? Most recent college grads wouldn't know or care about the consequences of declaring bankruptcy, so they'd just do it.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by GDB

The problem is, unless the amount of loans needed also went down, very few would actually care if they were accomodated. File bankruptcy, or pay off $80k? Most recent college grads wouldn't know or care about the consequences of declaring bankruptcy, so they'd just do it.

Currently, student loans are NOT dischargeable under bankruptcy -- thank your bankster lobbyists and their crony congressmen for that one.

https://www1.salliemae.com/after_gra...bankruptcy.htm

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

"I'm gonna go train in the mountains"?

LOL !

You wish.

That does not seem to be the thinking of many people.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

if either Obama or Rommy want to help students. They would make it so student Loans can discharge in normal bankruptcy. You would see just how fast the loan companies would accommodate students if the student can just file bankruptcy and walk away form it.

You would also see how fast Loan companies walk away from student loans especially from minority racial groups.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Currently, student loans are NOT dischargeable under bankruptcy -- thank your bankster lobbyists and their crony congressmen for that one.

https://www1.salliemae.com/after_gra...bankruptcy.htm

I know. I was responding to Xellos's claim that allowing bankruptcy to clear student loans would help students, when it fact it wouldn't. Too many wouldn't understand the implications of having filed bankruptcy and would do it for the quick clean slate, which would also cause the student loans to increase further to compensate.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

LOL !

You wish.

That does not seem to be the thinking of many people.



You would also see how fast Loan companies walk away from student loans especially from minority racial groups.

There's a reason student loans were "federalized" originally --- it was considered an investment in the USA. My own student loan was even called the National Defense Student Loan. The privatization frenzy did not serve the people well - mostly just enriched a few banksters (who then panicked when they realized the peasants had a 'get out of jail' card and lobbied it away).

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by GDB

I know. I was responding to Xellos's claim that allowing bankruptcy to clear student loans would help students, when it fact it wouldn't. Too many wouldn't understand the implications of having filed bankruptcy and would do it for the quick clean slate, which would also cause the student loans to increase further to compensate.

7 years, that is how long it stays on record.

I do understand what the consequences are. A junk Credit Score, Higher rates on credit card, higher rate insurance (in states that allow used of cs to determine rates), more difficulty in getting a job. Forget getting a mortgage until after the 7 yrs.

It will be hard and difficulty but when the alternative is 100k, I rather go bankrupt. Especially if i was barely making enough to live on.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

You would also see how fast Loan companies walk away from student loans especially from minority racial groups.

1. the Loan companies are basically middleman between the gov't and students. I would love to see the private lender walk away.

2. More money flushing into the system is one of the major reason why cost of college has escalate the last decade.

3. if getting a student loan was closer to getting a mortgage. Maybe people would think about what they really want to study a bit more.

4. if there is a vacuum someone will fill it. If the traditional private lenders walk away. Other companies will step in (credit Union, community banks, etc) but they are going to do a more through Underwriting then current lenders.

[ganbaru]

New Romney spokesman deleted inflammatory tweets
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83M1J320120424

Home prices seeing some signs of stability
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83N0RC20120424

[Vexx]

This should make people god-damned angry at any politician that is a crony for the current healthcare system:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/bu...er=rss&emc=rss

Outsourcing the hospital front office to debt-collectors, violations of patient privacy, breaking state and federal laws, refusing ER entry until money changes hands, threatening patients,.... yeah, that's the "for-profit" system...

[Kyuu]

Now this is ironic….one of the most hated men and possibly the worst VP in political history is giving Mitt Romney advice on how to pick a vice presidential candidate. Dick Cheney offered Mitt Romney a dose of blunt advice Monday afternoon: resist the temptation to tap a vice-president for purely political purposes.

My biggest concern is not that Dick Cheney is telling Mitt Romney to pick someone who would be a good president, but what the Dick Cheney’s of the world consider to be “a good president.” The ideal Republican presidential candidate would declare a war on Iran, eliminate Medicare, kick out all the Latinos, ban all mosques, allow employers to discriminate against gays, eliminate minimum wage and give huge tax cuts to the rich. That’s the type of candidate that Dick Cheney would like Mitt Romney to pick, and we should all be worried about that.

http://www.classwarfareexists.com/ch...ce-on-vp-pick/

Be worried. Be very worried.

[Vexx]

Just make sure they keep getting half the population furious over the next six months (da wimmen...). Mad enough to vote even...

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Vexx

This should make people god-damned angry at any politician that is a crony for the current healthcare system:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/bu...er=rss&emc=rss

Outsourcing the hospital front office to debt-collectors, violations of patient privacy, breaking state and federal laws, refusing ER entry until money changes hands, threatening patients,.... yeah, that's the "for-profit" system...

I passed pissed years ago. This is downright disgusting. How could anyone do this and not feel like they've just dirtied their soul. It's that much more disturbing when I got to the part about Catholic hospitals employing these scum. Would Jesus have allowed a moneychanger to haggle a sick person? NO.

This is every bit as corrupt and sinister as the dead peasant insurance policies and this should be more than enough proof that the US healthcare and insurance systems are fubar.

Rail on the evils of government all you want, but one thing you'll never see social workers do is ambulance chase. The sooner we tell this system to go fuck itself and replace it with Medicare for all, the better.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Just make sure they keep getting half the population furious over the next six months (da wimmen...). Mad enough to vote even...

What's important isn't really the ''next six month'' but the last fews weeks before the vote: give enough time to the population and it will either forget or addapt to the thing.

[Ithekro]

It wasn't much more than a generation or two ago that they didn't allow "colored" into "White Only" hospitals. To the point were it was against the law to treat someone "of color" even in a life or death emergency. Or at least that is what I recall hearing about.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

eliminate minimum wage

Whoa, whoa, when did this become a GOP talking point? Granted it was inevitable, but this is the first I've heard of it.

[ganbaru]

I wouldn't usualy post anything from FoxNews but ...
Gingrich to leave presidential race next Tuesday, sources say
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...y-sources-say/

Newt Gingrich plans to formally leave the Republican presidential race next Tuesday, senior campaign aides told Fox News, after struggling for months to turn around his sagging bid for the White House.

The former House speaker will "more than likely" endorse Mitt Romney when he makes his announcement to either suspend or end the campaign, a source said.

The decision comes after Gingrich huddled with senior advisers following the five primaries Romney swept on Tuesday night. Romney's victories made it virtually impossible for Gingrich to secure the 1,144 delegates needed for the Republican nomination.

Gingrich's exit is a stark turnaround from his public posture just a few months back, when in December he confidently declared following his rise in national polls that he's "going to be the nominee." His campaign then flagged until his blockbuster victory in the South Carolina primary in late January -- Gingrich failed to follow that up with any victories save for a win in his home state of Georgia, as Romney marched steadily toward the nomination.

Gingrich and Ron Paul were the only Romney rivals remaining after Rick Santorum bowed out earlier this month. Meanwhile, Gingrich continues to receive protection from a scaled-back Secret Service detail, though it's unclear whether that will change before his announcement. Bloomberg/Business Week recently estimated that the detail is costing taxpayers at least $40,000 a day.

For several weeks, Gingrich staffers have been reviewing accounts and making preparations. Gingrich had been holding out hope for a strong performance at least in Delaware Tuesday night. Absent that, Gingrich decided to plan for his exit next week.

He will complete his North Carolina schedule this week, making it something of a goodbye tour while supporters, friends and family arrive from across the country for his departure from the race.

Earlier on the trail, Gingrich signaled Wednesday morning that he was preparing to drop out. Telling a breakfast gathering of county Republicans in North Carolina that it's clear Romney will be the nominee, Gingrich said the campaign is "working out the details of our transition" and will have more information in the coming days.

"I think you have to be honest at some point about what's happening in the real world as opposed to what you'd have like to have happened," Gingrich said, praising the front-runner's primary performances Tuesday night.

"This guy has worked for six years, put together a big machine, and has put together a serious campaign," he said. "I think obviously that I would be a better candidate, but the objective fact is that the voters didn't think that."

Gingrich said he plans to complete his campaign schedule in North Carolina, which runs through Friday, but "I want you to know that I've been coming here a long time as a citizen, I'm going to keep coming as a citizen, I have a schedule through the rest of the week as a citizen."

Gingrich said that he and Callista are still committed to going to Tampa, but made it clear that they would be attending as Romney supporters and not as spoilers for the nomination.

"I do think it's pretty clear that Gov. Romney is ultimately going to be the nominee and we're going to do everything we can to make sure that he is, in fact, effective and that we as a team are effective both in winning this fall and then, frankly, in governing," he said.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by GDB

Whoa, whoa, when did this become a GOP talking point? Granted it was inevitable, but this is the first I've heard of it.

Eliminating the minimum wage has been a libertarian thing for a very long time. I guess the Republicans finally caught on with the libertarians' way of thinking.

According to libertarians the minimum wage only prevents people from getting work (because there's a lower limit to what they can offer to get an employer to agree to hire them) and it raises inflation by raising the lower limit of what people can make legally. The libertarians also claim that minimum wage law promotes the hiring of illegal immigrants under the table (who can then be paid less than minimum wage).

Makes a lot of sense, no? Except it doesn't. In reality-land, not libertarian-fantasy-land, the minimum wage keeps the dirt-poor from being so dirt poor they can't even exist. Inflation is inevitable--it'll keep happening as long as the Fed keeps fucking about with the money supply.

The problem with the minimum wage isn't that it exists, it's that its insultingly low. The minimum wage should be raised based on cost of living in every locale in America, so that a single minimum wage worker can afford an average one-bedroom apartment and have money left over for living expenses, food and transportation all on a standard 40-hour work week.

[Ithekro]

And California's minimum wage is state regulated higher than many other states...and it still doesn't do much good for those on it.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Eliminating the minimum wage has been a libertarian thing for a very long time. I guess the Republicans finally caught on with the libertarians' way of thinking.

According to libertarians the minimum wage only prevents people from getting work (because there's a lower limit to what they can offer to get an employer to agree to hire them) and it raises inflation by raising the lower limit of what people can make legally. The libertarians also claim that minimum wage law promotes the hiring of illegal immigrants under the table (who can then be paid less than minimum wage).

Makes a lot of sense, no? Except it doesn't. In reality-land, not libertarian-fantasy-land, the minimum wage keeps the dirt-poor from being so dirt poor they can't even exist. Inflation is inevitable--it'll keep happening as long as the Fed keeps fucking about with the money supply.

The problem with the minimum wage isn't that it exists, it's that its insultingly low. The minimum wage should be raised based on cost of living in every locale in America, so that a single minimum wage worker can afford an average one-bedroom apartment and have money left over for living expenses, food and transportation all on a standard 40-hour work week.

Even worse, any simple graph of minimum wage versus, says, median wage... or more to the point in comparison with executive pay increases since the 1970s should aggravate the hell out of anyone with a clue.

The executive/CEOs/etc have not magically become 800 times more valuable while the waitress, sweeper, stocker worth have been flatline. That is as clear a case of looting society as can be shown.

The supposed downside of minimum wage is that the small business owner is less likely to hire or add employees. Emphasis on the word SMALL business owner though... once again you have to look at how the pay out is spread between the people who make the company happen from top to bottom.