True Tears - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[vio5555]

@ Theowne, ani_d

I don't know, I'm not really buying that Hiromi has to care about Noe/Shin's prior dating as much as you guys are saying.

You guys are forgetting that from Hiromi's perspective Shin/Noe's relationship is entirely a farce built on the contract between Jun and Shin. From that perspective everything she's been doing is fairly legitimate since she doesn't think that Shin and Noe actually have a mutual relationship. She sees whatever they had around eps 4-7 as being forced under the understanding that Shin thought she (Hiromi) liked Jun. In that sense she feels that Shin and Noe's relationship is as false as hers with Jun since in her mind Shin is ONLY dating Noe so that Jun will date her.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, the tears that Noe needs to shed are the ones are the ones she held back when her beloved grandmother died (and then later when Raigomaru died). Crying tears of joy won't resolve the central issue. One way or another, she needs to learn to grieve properly; to release the sadness she's kept bottled up inside for so long. So, I think "tears of joy" would break the metaphor, regardless of how the romantic things work out. Having her cry "true tears" is giving her justice -- it's finally setting her free (just as we saw with Hiromi). That's what the tears mean (IMO, of course).

I see your point there, but really, if breaking Noe's heart is called "doing her justice" then the writers must really hate Noe. Do tears automatically have to signify tears of sadness here? :| Noe said when her grandmother died, she 'took her tears with her'. Her grandma said that because she wanted Noe to be happy and not cry over every single thing. Why would this show want to bring the worst emotions from Noe? It's not like she's an empty shell. She knows sadness. I'm thinking reverting back to being a crybaby is the unhealthy path.

Now, Noe said she wanted to "collect her tears" so she'd take Shin's tears away for her. The first time I heard that I thought, "she'll cry when he chooses Hiromi". It was so obvious. Too obvious it was suspicious. In my opinion, this kind of altruistic deed should not go unrewarded. That's just what I'm asking from this show. I just want to see more Noe appreciation here, I guess.

So, anyway, I still say true tears should be tears of joy.

Originally Posted by vio5555

@ Theowne, ani_d

I don't know, I'm not really buying that Hiromi has to care about Noe/Shin's prior dating as much as you guys are saying.

You guys are forgetting that from Hiromi's perspective Shin/Noe's relationship is entirely a farce built on the contract between Jun and Shin. From that perspective everything she's been doing is fairly legitimate since she doesn't think that Shin and Noe actually have a mutual relationship. She sees whatever they had around eps 4-7 as being forced under the understanding that Shin thought she (Hiromi) liked Jun. In that sense she feels that Shin and Noe's relationship is as false as hers with Jun since in her mind Shin is ONLY dating Noe so that Jun will date her.

Ah, now that you reminded me, that's even more rude. That's totally disregarding Noe's feelings. Since she knows that Shin is "only" dating Noe because of a deal, she just went ahead and made a move on Shin. Out of them 4, she must've known Noe has no idea of the deal. She knows Noe likes Shin, but she doesn't even think to consider the other girl's feelings. Even Noe's welfare as a person, she still doesn't care lmao

It's not like I'm so against her kissing Shin, (who cares about Shin) it's just that, I wish she'd give Noe more credit. They WERE lunch buddies. It's demeaning. I'd never treat a lunch buddy like that just because of some boy. Current or ex-lunch buddy.

I sound like a big promoter of Noe and lunch buddy love here haha

[Stretch5920]

They were never buddies.

I do agree with you about the tears of joy thing. Everyone who has cried so far has been due to sad things, it would make sense to have one person who cries from being happy. I think Noe said she felt like crying when she was happy after Shin asked her out. We'll see what happens. I don't really care too much about the ending anymore, the second half of this has been rather uninteresting compared to the first half in my opinion. Using cliffhangers every ep is annoying and I really did not like how they just made Shin's Mom just wake up one day and decide to be nice.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Ah, now that you reminded me, that's even more rude. That's totally disregarding Noe's feelings. Since she knows that Shin is "only" dating Noe because of a deal, she just went ahead and made a move on Shin. Out of them 4, she must've known Noe has no idea of the deal. She knows Noe likes Shin, but she doesn't even think to consider the other girl's feelings. Even Noe's welfare as a person, she still doesn't care lmao

It's not like I'm so against her kissing Shin, (who cares about Shin) it's just that, I wish she'd give Noe more credit. They WERE lunch buddies. It's demeaning. I'd never treat a lunch buddy like that just because of some boy. Current or ex-lunch buddy.

I sound like a big promoter of Noe and lunch buddy love here haha

First off, the lunch buddy deal was a deal (in the same vein as the Shin/Jun pact) since they were both interested in Shin and then became lunch buddies. That's not the same as "true lunch buddies" who are friends before becoming interested in a guy.

Second, the one who broke off the "lunch buddy deal" was Noe in ep 7 by blaming Hiromi for Shin not being able to look at the sky...; any way you cut it, Noe forged the lunch buddy deal fully knowing that Hiromi only wanted to understand her because of Shin, and then broke off the semi-truce of her own accord.

Noe's feelings have been played by basically everyone. Hiromi isn't the one who has to care about Noe's feelings; that should be Jun's and Shin's jobs to do since they're her brother and boyfriend respectively.

Jun and Shin deserve all of this blame you're trying to apportion since its Jun who doesn't really understand what's best for Noe and has been moving this disastrous pact forward while seemingly masking his own feelings. Shin dated her seriously for a bit and then half-heartedly thereafter when he basically just stopped caring about her. Those two deserve the blame for why her feelings have been toyed with; at best Hiromi is a distant third on the pecking order if you're dishing out the blame since her relationship with Noe should be the most obvious farce (to Noe's perspective).

Let me just be perfectly clear here; by the above that I've stated; Hiromi has no vested interest in Noe's welfare, and thus, your blame is misplaced. Jun and Shin are 100% responsible for Noe's welfare in True Tears as her only "real" relationships.

Personally, I feel bad that Hiromi and Noe have to go through this pact that Shin and Jun have set up. The only reason I feel more regret for Noe, as you do, is because Noe isn't able to really figure out what's going on, whereas Hiromi does and adapts to it, probably because she learned from the situation with Shin's mom.

[Theowne]

Originally Posted by vio5555

In that sense she feels that Shin and Noe's relationship is as false as hers with Jun since in her mind Shin is ONLY dating Noe so that Jun will date her.

I don't really buy it....Considering Hiromi's (minimal, I admit) interaction with Noe so far in the series...

I would refer back to episode 8...when she is alone with Noe...she says, "Do you really think that innocent face would capture Shin's feelings" in a somewhat confrontational/jealous voice though Noe was being friendly (an entirely uncalled for moment that I can't get over in order to sympathize with her character)...Now unless I'm forgetting something that happens either before or after this, that doesn't sound like the words of someone who believes that Noe's relationship is a complete farce like her and Jun. And then we get to the "Noe missing" scene in ep11....Why did she hesitate (with the jealous tinge) if she thought it was an absolutely false relationship?

I agree that more responsibility falls on Shin and Jun as they clearly have more affect in Noe's life....but I still think Hiromi's sense of forgetting that Noe exists is a bit of a downer....especially when she hesitates at the end when Noe goes missing....perhaps this is an anime convention I am not familiar with, but what do you expect a guy to do if his someone he knows very well has gone missing (and may have a part in her disappearance)? Refuse to look for her?

[Mushi]

Whew.... just discovered this a few days ago and finished episode 11 of this wonderful series and I must say, my heart is really aching for Noe right now. I think she's adorable and want to see the best for her. Regardless of how the romantic angle works out.

Originally Posted by Theowne

I would refer back to episode 8...when she is alone with Noe...she says, "Do you really think that innocent face would capture Shin's feelings" in a somewhat confrontational/jealous voice though Noe was being friendly (an entirely uncalled for moment that I can't get over in order to sympathize with her character)...Now unless I'm forgetting something that happens either before or after this, that doesn't sound like the words of someone who believes that Noe's relationship is a complete farce like her and Jun.

I think Hiromi is reflecting some resentment about Shin's mother treating her the way she did earlier. The mom had said something equally bitter to her about her appearance and how she who could fool men with her looks, getting Shin to take her side. Hiromi caught herself right away and it looked to me like it was one of those "Oh crap, I'm just like her" moments that made her reflect a little on her own attitude and motivations.

And then we get to the "Noe missing" scene in ep11....Why did she hesitate (with the jealous tinge) if she thought it was an absolutely false relationship?

And did she call Shin out of concern for Noe or because she just felt obligated to "do the right thing?" Or perhaps, fear that he would hear she had been asked to call him if she hadn't?

....perhaps this is an anime convention I am not familiar with, but what do you expect a guy to do if his someone he knows very well has gone missing (and may have a part in her disappearance)? Refuse to look for her?

I think it's part of building the tension for the love rivalry. And I think it's fairly common. The guy hears of one of the girls in trouble, runs off to help her... most often out of a sense of genuine concern... and it's played as a cause of worry for the other girl/girls.

But, I agree. Regardless of where Shin is at with Hiromi, Noe is/was his "first girlfriend" as Aiko called her at the dance practice. He would certainly be worried about her, and having been so close to her would most likely be the one who would know where to look for her.

I'm on pins and needles now, waiting for the next episode. This has me more wound up than the ending of Clannad (which I'm holding out for the widescreen versions of to finish).

I think this series is very well done all around and has easily sucked me into the story heart and soul.

[viny]

Ai-chan and Miyokichi got back together (or in progress of)... unrealistic but sweet.
Did everyone see it coming?

[JCMS]

The translators are surely taking their time for EP12

[YunaX]

sorry i accidentally voted the worst 1 point for this ep.


again i apologize

HIROMI FTW