2012-09-22, 21:52
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Link #2241 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Thank you for saying that Kleeyook. Charles tried to avoid the possible confrontation at first, even tried to walk away 2 or 3 times after Attia kept pushing for a confrontation. She just lost her patience. I know she didn't have to say all she did, or that what she did to Attia was right. However, at the very least, she tried to be the bigger person at the beginning. Attia was just being the snotty rich kid we always knew her to be.
I don't see why people hate Charles because she's inclined to follow orders. Remembering her past, I can understand why she is so adamant. I can also understand her point of view as a soldier. Not everyone can be like Elizabeth or Satelizer, who are able to act on their independent notions of right and wrong. Even if they do, they are soldiers, such independant action has and will get them in trouble. In addition, they are only a few in an ocean of pandoras and the organization they serve. Chiffon knew this all herself. That's why she didn't jump to help Elizabeth when asked and in fact warned her not to do anything, because she knew the type of people in the upper leadership and what they would do to Elizabeth if she tried going against them. Someone said this before that it is the moral right vs system right. Chiffon knew what was happening with the E-pandoras and she was sympahthetic, but really in the end, what could she have done? Even though I like the Satelizer, Elizabeth and others conviction in helping the other E-pandoras, they still became traitors to their fellow pandora comrades, caused alot of injury. while helping Amelia escape which in turn resulted in her discovering the Maria clones that later were absorbed into her, which caused the Nova clash in the first place which in turn caused a lot of death even the life of their dear president. Looking back at what resulted of their actions. Can we really say what they did was the right thing? They had good intentions, but that doesn't mean the actions they took would result in good ending. Of couse this is a manga where the lines of good and evil are blurred.
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Last edited by Kurohane; 2012-09-22 at 22:33. |
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2012-09-22, 22:42
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Link #2242 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Killers Special Mobile Prison
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that's exactly one of the rules of balance: "The One, didn't purge the bad with own force, but using another bad one to make them annihilate each other"  err.....can some one inform me the number of latest RAWs available?  me only find 107 (which mean scanlation caught up to the latest) but I think it's incorrect because usually RAWS of this series always far ahead of latest scanlation thanks b4 |
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2012-09-22, 22:58
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Link #2243 | ||
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Emperor of the Expected
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
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2012-09-23, 02:46
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Link #2245 | |
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Yandere maniax
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somewhere close to Valhalla
Age: 34
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But all you guys say is about Charles being the only bad guy here. When both clearly are at fault. Ignorance is a bliss.  I don't take anyone's side either. But I think that if everyone keeps bashing Charles while ignoring how Attila behaves is a sin too. And Amelia sucks. She gave in to her hatred easily and planed to destroy humanity, right when the pandoras like Elizabeth and Satellizer trying to help her were fighting to death for her... She simply forgot all about it... I kind of think that Elizabeth's kindness is such a vain.  BTW, Charles' hatred started when she was rejecting friendship with others in Team 13 while criticizing about them acting on their own betraying the organization which would be really bad if the Chevalier didn't do the terrible things they did. It just escalated more when she beat Attila and now started the conflict against Elizabeth's clique and probably the rest pandoras. Last edited by Kleeyook; 2012-09-23 at 03:06. |
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2012-09-23, 04:04
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Link #2246 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Charles' fate should be no better than hers was. |
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2012-09-23, 05:31
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Link #2247 | |
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Yandere maniax
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somewhere close to Valhalla
Age: 34
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And now the result of their stupidity will take turn for worse. If Attila didn't piss Charles too much she wouldn't get hurt badly. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is bullshit. Attila provoked the overzealous knight templar, she was too suicidal, and now things won't end with just the two of them. Imagine you visited North Korea and insulted their dear leader for being an ass in front of them, you are clearly right about that, but they'll kill you in the worst possible way and spark international conflict between your country and theirs. Thanks for doing the obvious... |
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2012-09-23, 06:57
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Link #2248 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
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As for Charles, I can't speak for everyone, but the main problem that's been stated about her is she always follows orders, no questions asked. Even after the E-Pandora fiasco and her humiliating defeat at Elizabeth's hands, she still insists she was right all along. And yet even someone as flawed as Attia points out that blind obedience makes Pandoras nothing more than human weapons. Is that all Charles thinks her fellow Pandoras need to be? I thought the idea was to protect mankind from the Novas, not to make Chevalier look good. And regardless of how powerful Chevalier is, if they start performing immoral or unethical acts, if the Pandoras don't stand up for what's right, who will? As for the last part, though you may feel Elizabeth and Satellizer did more harm than good, imagine if they just stood idly by and did nothing. Amelia and all her friends would be dead, at least a couple of them would go Nova Form regardless, and have to be put down. Then a fresh batch of guinea pigs would be shipped in, and suffer the same fate. It would continue until a possibly bigger disaster occurred. Would that have been better? Quote:
As for Amelia, she discovered the whole E-Pandora project was a farce all along. Her accusations that it was never meant to succeed were proven true. Then when Ohara told her the rebellion would've been in vain, she simply snapped. Of course she forgot, she was too lost in despair to remember any of that. If it weren't for Elizabeth's kindness, Amelia would most likely be dead right now. As for Charles, I daresay it happened a lot sooner than that. She's still seething over what happened to Spencer, and lashes out at anyone who dares misspeaks against him. Then she sees three of the Pandoras who aided the rebellion, and is incensed at thought of teaming up with such overly emotional individuals, though she proved she's no one to talk. Do as I say, not as I do, it's the Charles Bonaparte way. And that's just as sad.
Last edited by Alhazad2003; 2012-10-14 at 14:31. |
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2012-09-23, 09:20
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Link #2249 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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I don't know, would it? Because either way, people would or have died, either the E padoras because the experiments continued or the pandoras who died during the Alaska Nova Clash. I am not saying the Satillizer and Elizabeth did not have good intentions. It is just the situation was out of their hands. It wasn't in their hands to begin with. The situation escalated to the point where to stay true to their beliefs they had no other choice to do what they did, but look what resulted from it. Yes, the E-pandora immoral experiments were brought to light and stopped. However, the sacrifices involved to stop it were not just limited to them. Other people got involved too.
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2012-09-23, 10:27
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Link #2250 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Ugh! You think these girls would have a break and just learn to work together without starting some clustercuss. THEY DON'T GOT TIME FOR THEIR PATHETIC LIL PAYBACK GAMES!
They have to work together as a team obviously, but some people just don't let some things die. *ranting mode OFF* Such hypocritical females running out at the mouth and just busting heads, making their superiors having a fit at their BS. Both Attia and Charles were in their wrongs at a certain part. Charles included, I don't hate her, but I don't approve of her follow order mindset as anybody should know that such a mentality leaves you blind to things that will end up kicking your butt later on when you find out that you're expendable and some stuff like that. Attia just doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut for now after what happened, knowing how powerful Charles is. As much as she's trying to defend her friend Elizabeth, it's not doing any favors either. The whole idea of their teams being put together is for the eventual battles that they will face and TEAMWORK is the key, but NO they have to start another freaking bout over BS that should not have to be the focus here. I'm more concerned with the protagonists and a few others, along with the future battles against NOVAS other than this stupid fight about to take place next chapter in which Satallizer might get wound up into. Must..control..the rage... Anyway...next chapter let's all see how bad this clustercuss goes before someone has balls and makes them realize what these things they are preparing for is all about.
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Last edited by leon4281isback; 2012-09-23 at 12:32. |
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2012-09-23, 11:04
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Link #2251 |
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Yandere maniax
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somewhere close to Valhalla
Age: 34
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^^ Agree ^^
I believe everyone here already knows that what these girls usually do (fighting each other, causing hatred and distress) is the proof of how stupid humans can be even when facing common enemy capable of wiping them out and they're supposed to fight alongside each other. We accept that as a norm so... About Charles, since we're readers, we know who's wrong. It's quite a problem for the characters though, they aren't informed about every little shit the bad guys do like us. That's why this following order mindset without asking their superior back still exists. And when things like Gestapo or KGB existed (now we have CIA), it's really risky to do some investigation to confirm their doubt without getting caught, silent, lost their family members in the process (Elizabeth is a prime example). And when the head of Chevalier is Spencer, Charles BS towards the morality of her job would surely increases. Charles is wrong and her principle sucks, but that's to be expected. Her belief and action is that of a hypocrite. I'm not supporting Charles, just saying that it's to be expected. It's a wonder how Charles got away with it since she's close to Spencer. Maybe it's because she's strong, and they are in need of powerful pandoras to fight for their world, not to fight each other. Now we'll see another clash between Team 13 and Elizabeth's clique. Team 13 is already a target of hostility from the rest of the student body from the beginning, so with Charles' action, team 13 won't be able to get away from the rage of them (who'd find any excuse to antagonize Team 13 anyway). I'm more concerned about why Aoi siblings really dislike Gengo and human evolution farce the Seiga Industry believes in though. Last edited by Kleeyook; 2012-09-23 at 11:18. |
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2012-09-23, 14:42
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Link #2252 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Gengo Aoi has proven that he is no saint, and has little if any concern to his family in slightest. In addition, he is as shady as heck. No one can tell what he is thinking about or planning on doing. I think the CEO of Seiga Industries is well founded.
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2012-09-23, 18:36
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Link #2253 | |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
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The Chevaliers and anyone else he's going up against are bastards but that doesn't mean Gengo isn't one. Spencer and company was wrong but that doesn't mean Gengo is right either. |
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2012-09-23, 21:01
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Link #2254 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
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This thing with Gengo and whoever the people whose got beef with him got me intriguing ever since he was brought up a few times. The questions to this guy is obvious so that's until the time's come to know what's he's up to.
It will be a pain for the current situation at head, feels like although some people are right about certain things, they are also wrong about'em too. Still now's not the time for games of any kind, when there's still so much that can be improved on both teams, something that ups their morale and get them ready for their battles. I do concern myself with characters such as Ticy, whose trying to be like Chiffon but is missing something that makes Chiffon well Chiffon. And Ticy can only be Ticy, not Chiffon. Chiffon had some rights and wrongs about her, but it's some of her character that made me like her. She's very cheeful for the most part, and she does have a rage, such fury behind her that knows no bounds when provoked and her reasons are legit. But she's pretty likable. She knows what Satellizer is all about, and pretends to be scared of her, knowing that she's pretty much more of a tank than Satellizer and doesn't need to do anything to her or anybody else unless she had a reason to unveil her real power which was more proven than ever doing the Alaska E-pandora incident, she just chooses not to get in the BS that the third-years had with Satellizer. Ticy was mostly a strong, but a scared girl, was bullied on until Chiffon came and went berserk on the bullies for hurting her. Those two were close, and now with Chiffon gone, Ticy was really hurt by her passing. Her appearance and attitude are a way to somehow honor Chiffon or something like that, but although Chiffon was by the book, she didn't become hostile in anyway to anybody unless if there's a real reason for her to do so. She was also mostly likable for her personality anyway. Ticy can be like that too in her own way, and I do wish she'd know at least why Satellizer did what she did, it was because of back then in her life. She would give her break then at the least. Neither understood Satellizer's past and thought she was some kind a girl that they could pick or take advantage of, only to be proven so wrong. Time will tell when such characters realize their own problems and starts changing for the better while there's still time.
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2012-09-23, 23:41
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Link #2255 |
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Yandere maniax
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somewhere close to Valhalla
Age: 34
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^^ We have no idea what the hell Gengo is thinking. He's also shady, and his motive is left unexplored. I don't even understand what the hell is NOVA. Who the hell is Maria.
Gengo did a lot of things I'm sure we all consider irony. He opposes his colleague about using the gene of Maria to create weapons (then become E-pandora) when he himself proposes the plan to use pandora. I find this to be incomplete though. I want more insight about it. At least pandora is a better choice than E-pandora, yet he uses the word pandora saying that there's a chance the pandora will cause them a huge catastrophe (almost happen when the NOVA converted the pandoras into NOVA). He told Stella's dad he lets his grandson decided his own life yet he has arranged Ouka as Kazuya's fiancé. But he also tells Kazuya that it's his choice and Kazuya should stop whining and act like a man whom to choose. Gengo also said some cool lines when he's alone. Damn! I have no idea what the hell is with Gengo. Everything about him is shady, but his enemies seem too crazy to be left ignored. Maria also seems to attract the NOVA, but they just leave the reasons unexplained. I think I'd act like Gengo doing mostly nothing while watching from the safe place when things are in such mess and you not only have to bear the fate of your own species, but also dealing with some evolution fanatics like Seiga Industry (my commonsense is telling me that human evolves into NOVA while NOVA is killing us off is no good and too risky, how they'll try to prove their theory anyway, let's hope it's not something like making a pandora into a NOVA and hope she won't slaughter us) and obnoxious corrupted executives like the Chevalier. I'll leave it at that at the moment. There are quite a lot of things I'm not so sure of about this manga. Last edited by Kleeyook; 2012-09-24 at 00:12. |
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2012-09-24, 03:04
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Link #2256 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Killers Special Mobile Prison
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So if you want Ticy understand , or may be the entire West GENETICS Pandora can see and understand each other their drive to do what they do, including Satella, I think all of them must be connected to Kazuya's Freezing OMG! Gengo modified Kazuya to be king of Violent Harem by make his Sychro rate to STIGMA, in another level above regular Limiter wahahahahaha----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- May be Gengo know the danger E-Pandora pose so he propose PANDORA as human defense. As we all know, STIGMA it self is NOVA's tissue, and the more of it mean the more chance to 'Synch' (been affected by) with the real NOVA, hence PANDORA that experienced it called 'NOVALIZED' In PANDORA, there's some human part, to at last suppress, or slower the process of STIGMA host become a NOVA, but in E-Pandora, all of them is STIGMA (Maria's clone), once the E-Pandora's being 'called' by their 'STIGMA mother', human will taste their own weapon for sure oh! about Fiancee thingy, I doubt that Gengo the one who set it up, he didn't care when his granddaughter become Pandora and died NOVALIZED in battlefield, so why he will care this grandson anyway? even set up a fiancee? I think it's just Ouka's plot to own her man of dream, but if it's true that Kazuha entrusted him to her, then she has my full support.....1st come...1st serve 
Last edited by surerman; 2012-09-24 at 03:14. |
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2012-09-24, 11:31
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Link #2257 |
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Yandere maniax
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somewhere close to Valhalla
Age: 34
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^^ Is it really true anyway that he didn't care about his granddaughter's dead? Damn! I think I might have skipped that scene, or maybe it's just Kazuya's own opinion, and I'm not really fond of a weak indecisive siscon with little knowledge about the complexity and cruelty of the world...
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| action, author loves incest, female fighters, futuristic setting, harem, seinen |
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