AnimeSuki Forums

Sackett · 2010-10-31, 19:42

Okay, so here's the situation. Over at TV Tropes it was decided to redraft the Essential Anime page into a new format. Instead of listing a bunch of anime that are deemed "essential" it was decided to instead try an list the anime trope maker, trope codifier, and other anime that represent a historical development in each genre, and perhaps what specific tropes they introduced to that genre.

As an example, here is what we have for the Mecha genre:

Humongous Mecha:

* Trope Maker: Gigantor. Aired in Japan from 1963 to 1965, Gigantor, or Tetsujin 28, was the beginning of the Humongous Mecha genre.
o Super Robot Trope Codifier: Mazinger Z. Aired in Japan from 1973 to 1974. The show that defined the Super Robot mold. While Tetsujin 28 was the original giant robot, Mazinger is probably the most influential and biggest Trope Maker.
o Real Robot Trope Codifier: Mobile Suit Gundam: A cultural phenomenon in its own right, Mobile Suit Gundam (or Kidou Senshi Gundam) aired in Japan from 1979 to 1980. It has survived in several iterations since, most recently as the ongoing Gundam00 (2007-2009). It is notable (at least in its earlier entries) for establishing the Real Robot genre, grounding the robots somewhere closer to reality (both size- and technology-wise) and focusing more on the life and tribulations of their pilots. The plots of the series are pure military drama, and would work just as well were the robots to be replaced by tanks, ships or any other modern fighting vehicle, with the Gundam taking the role of game changing, cutting edge technology.
+ Deconstruction: Neon Genesis Evangelion: The most influential series on the Humongous Mecha genre since Mobile Suit Gundam, Evangelion aired in Japan from 1995 to 1996. In America, it was released commercially into the market prepared by such series as Ranma 1/2 and Sailor Moon. While many other series could be called better gateways for people starting out in anime, this is a must for anyone who wants to go further in the mecha genre, or who are interested in dark psychological drama and eschatology. It's also one of anime's most (in)famous examples of Mind Screw.
+ Reconstruction: Martian Successor Nadesico: Airing in Japan from 1996 to 1997, Martian Successor Nadesico was a sometimes-humorous, sometimes-serious parody/satire of the Humongous Mecha and Space Opera genres. Although it was much more popular in Japan than the west, its deconstructions and reconstructions of the genre influenced many shows to come after.
+ Genre Throwback: Gao Gai Gar aired (add air dates). Unapologetic of the original Hot Blooded-ness and other tropes associated with mecha. When it ended and showed through DVD sales that it was a massive hit with otaku, what followed was a ton of remakes and sequels of old-school Super Robots, from Getter Robo, to Mazinger Z, to even Steel Jeeg, as well as new entries such as Gurren Lagann.
o Transforming Mecha Trope Codifier: Macross (1982) Best known as the source for the first third of Robotech (1984) in the US, it helped launch the Transforming Robot genre, along with the Transformers.

Anyway, somehow I got volunteered to organize all the information. But we ran into a problem. Tropers over at TV Tropes lack knowledge of some of the anime genre. For example, we don't know much about Shoujo anime. All I got for that are the names of three shows, and I don't really know how they fit into our new organization.

The genre I still need a lot of help on:

Space Opera
Unwanted Harem
Magical Girlfriend
Shoujo
Slice of Life
Cyberpunk
Fantasy
"Moe" Shows (not certain yet if this will be a separate genre or not)

Also trying to figure out where a show like Clannad would go since it's clearly a Trope Codifier of something. Slice of Life Tragedy?

Anyway. If anyone would be willing to help I would really appreciate it. As the knowledge of those at TV Tropes has been exhausted, and I'd prefer not to launch it in it's incomplete form.

If you have knowledge of other genres to that would also be helpful.

Thankyou very much in advance.

Vexx · 2010-11-01, 08:20

A big problem you'll run into is that many series incorporate multiple elements... what you have listed isn't a list of "genre" so much as a list of *elements* of which several may go into a series.

Is Otome Yokai Zakuro seinen or shoujo? (hint: its a seinen publication that has a shoujo element as well as shounen elements). Is K-On! "slice of life", "gag comedy", or "coming of age"? Is Gurren Lagann "mecha", "drama", "ecchi", "coming of age", or "slapstick"? Then there's the whole "moe" word misuse problem...

So you might have more luck trying a taxonomy that characterizes *elements* that may describe a franchise rather than trying to label the franchise under pigeonhole 'genre'. It has become somewhat of an irritation to me to watch "young idiots" in forums characterize a series by one label and thereby miss the mark.

Sackett · 2010-11-01, 08:51

Well... we have no problem listing a show under multiple genre headings if it is a landmark anime in multiple genre. In fact I currently have several shows listed like that. For example, Urusei Yatsura is listed under both "Magical Girlfriend" anime, and under "Unwanted Harem".

This isn't about categorizing a specific show as "this a mech show and nothing else" but rather saying "these shows had a monumental impact on the mecha genre" so if you want to understand mecha anime and where different aspects of mecha come from, these would be some important shows to watch.

Bri · 2010-11-01, 10:26

In reply to Humongous Mecha:

You may want to consider:

Aim for the Top! Gunbuster (1988) as the first show to establish a super robot cast/tropes in a real robot universe. Paving the road for other hybrid anime like Macross 7, Raxephon, Eureka 7 which all mix Super and Real robot elements.

Second would be Gundam Wing (1995) for "Mecha is for girls". In the mid-nineties Sunrise expanded the market for mecha by targeting a female audience with Gundam Wing (1995). They introduced characters similar to those in popular shōjo manga. The formula: bishonen + mecha has been the very successful in recent years with anime like Code Geass, Gundam Seed, Macross Frontier and Gundam 00

Vexx · 2010-11-01, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sackett

Well... we have no problem listing a show under multiple genre headings if it is a landmark anime in multiple genre. In fact I currently have several shows listed like that. For example, Urusei Yatsura is listed under both "Magical Girlfriend" anime, and under "Unwanted Harem".

This isn't about categorizing a specific show as "this a mech show and nothing else" but rather saying "these shows had a monumental impact on the mecha genre" so if you want to understand mecha anime and where different aspects of mecha come from, these would be some important shows to watch.

Ah... yeah, that sounds like a good plan. That allows for overlap if a series had impact on the evolution of more than one story element.

2010-10-31, 19:42	Link #1
Sackett Cross Game - I need more Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma Age: 44	Request for help with Anime history Okay, so here's the situation. Over at TV Tropes it was decided to redraft the Essential Anime page into a new format. Instead of listing a bunch of anime that are deemed "essential" it was decided to instead try an list the anime trope maker, trope codifier, and other anime that represent a historical development in each genre, and perhaps what specific tropes they introduced to that genre. As an example, here is what we have for the Mecha genre: Humongous Mecha: * Trope Maker: Gigantor. Aired in Japan from 1963 to 1965, Gigantor, or Tetsujin 28, was the beginning of the Humongous Mecha genre. o Super Robot Trope Codifier: Mazinger Z. Aired in Japan from 1973 to 1974. The show that defined the Super Robot mold. While Tetsujin 28 was the original giant robot, Mazinger is probably the most influential and biggest Trope Maker. o Real Robot Trope Codifier: Mobile Suit Gundam: A cultural phenomenon in its own right, Mobile Suit Gundam (or Kidou Senshi Gundam) aired in Japan from 1979 to 1980. It has survived in several iterations since, most recently as the ongoing Gundam00 (2007-2009). It is notable (at least in its earlier entries) for establishing the Real Robot genre, grounding the robots somewhere closer to reality (both size- and technology-wise) and focusing more on the life and tribulations of their pilots. The plots of the series are pure military drama, and would work just as well were the robots to be replaced by tanks, ships or any other modern fighting vehicle, with the Gundam taking the role of game changing, cutting edge technology. + Deconstruction: Neon Genesis Evangelion: The most influential series on the Humongous Mecha genre since Mobile Suit Gundam, Evangelion aired in Japan from 1995 to 1996. In America, it was released commercially into the market prepared by such series as Ranma 1/2 and Sailor Moon. While many other series could be called better gateways for people starting out in anime, this is a must for anyone who wants to go further in the mecha genre, or who are interested in dark psychological drama and eschatology. It's also one of anime's most (in)famous examples of Mind Screw. + Reconstruction: Martian Successor Nadesico: Airing in Japan from 1996 to 1997, Martian Successor Nadesico was a sometimes-humorous, sometimes-serious parody/satire of the Humongous Mecha and Space Opera genres. Although it was much more popular in Japan than the west, its deconstructions and reconstructions of the genre influenced many shows to come after. + Genre Throwback: Gao Gai Gar aired (add air dates). Unapologetic of the original Hot Blooded-ness and other tropes associated with mecha. When it ended and showed through DVD sales that it was a massive hit with otaku, what followed was a ton of remakes and sequels of old-school Super Robots, from Getter Robo, to Mazinger Z, to even Steel Jeeg, as well as new entries such as Gurren Lagann. o Transforming Mecha Trope Codifier: Macross (1982) Best known as the source for the first third of Robotech (1984) in the US, it helped launch the Transforming Robot genre, along with the Transformers. Anyway, somehow I got volunteered to organize all the information. But we ran into a problem. Tropers over at TV Tropes lack knowledge of some of the anime genre. For example, we don't know much about Shoujo anime. All I got for that are the names of three shows, and I don't really know how they fit into our new organization. The genre I still need a lot of help on: Space Opera Unwanted Harem Magical Girlfriend Shoujo Slice of Life Cyberpunk Fantasy "Moe" Shows (not certain yet if this will be a separate genre or not) Also trying to figure out where a show like Clannad would go since it's clearly a Trope Codifier of something. Slice of Life Tragedy? Anyway. If anyone would be willing to help I would really appreciate it. As the knowledge of those at TV Tropes has been exhausted, and I'd prefer not to launch it in it's incomplete form. If you have knowledge of other genres to that would also be helpful. Thankyou very much in advance. __________________ Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?

2010-11-01, 08:20	Link #2
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	A big problem you'll run into is that many series incorporate multiple elements... what you have listed isn't a list of "genre" so much as a list of elements of which several may go into a series. Is Otome Yokai Zakuro seinen or shoujo? (hint: its a seinen publication that has a shoujo element as well as shounen elements). Is K-On! "slice of life", "gag comedy", or "coming of age"? Is Gurren Lagann "mecha", "drama", "ecchi", "coming of age", or "slapstick"? Then there's the whole "moe" word misuse problem... So you might have more luck trying a taxonomy that characterizes elements that may describe a franchise rather than trying to label the franchise under pigeonhole 'genre'. It has become somewhat of an irritation to me to watch "young idiots" in forums characterize a series by one label and thereby miss the mark. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2010-11-01, 08:51	Link #3
Sackett Cross Game - I need more Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma Age: 44	Well... we have no problem listing a show under multiple genre headings if it is a landmark anime in multiple genre. In fact I currently have several shows listed like that. For example, Urusei Yatsura is listed under both "Magical Girlfriend" anime, and under "Unwanted Harem". This isn't about categorizing a specific show as "this a mech show and nothing else" but rather saying "these shows had a monumental impact on the mecha genre" so if you want to understand mecha anime and where different aspects of mecha come from, these would be some important shows to watch. __________________ Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?

2010-11-01, 10:26	Link #4
Bri Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	In reply to Humongous Mecha: You may want to consider: Aim for the Top! Gunbuster (1988) as the first show to establish a super robot cast/tropes in a real robot universe. Paving the road for other hybrid anime like Macross 7, Raxephon, Eureka 7 which all mix Super and Real robot elements. Second would be Gundam Wing (1995) for "Mecha is for girls". In the mid-nineties Sunrise expanded the market for mecha by targeting a female audience with Gundam Wing (1995). They introduced characters similar to those in popular shōjo manga. The formula: bishonen + mecha has been the very successful in recent years with anime like Code Geass, Gundam Seed, Macross Frontier and Gundam 00