2009-04-20, 21:23 | Link #481 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
|
Quote:
The fact that Isshin thinks that Vizard are criminal shinigami and not a product of hollowification experiments means that either only certain people know about Central 46's theory and everyone else was told something different or Central 46 changed their mind about what they thought Vizard were, going from victims to criminals, once they were able to control their hollows... or Kubo is confused. But something must have happened in between because what Isshin thinks Vizard are doesn't really jive with what really happened or with what Central 46 thinks happened. Quote:
Also the amulet was given to protect Kon and not Ichigo's body, just wanted to point that out. Isshin also gives the amulet back to Kon. If his powers were sealed in the amulet then it would be useless now that Isshin has regained his shinigami form and thus would offer no further protection. Why give it back if it doesn't have any more power in it? |
||
2009-04-21, 03:27 | Link #482 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
Quote:
A) Isshin's powers were sealed until recently, Isshin regeted not being able to help his wife. B) Urahara is the had something to do with both the sealing and unsealing of his powers. As Urahara was afraid he would be blamed if Isshin ended up weaker then he use to be. C) the charm seems to be nothing more then a ward. most likely both protecting Kon and alerting Isshin that he is in danger. Also It is highly unlikely the charm had anything to do with Isshin regaining his powers since he threw it at GF to protect Kon while already in his shinigami form and reminded him that he needed to take it everywhere. Theory: Isshin was in the same type of power draining body that rukia was in and only within the time frame shortly after he was attacked in the first chapter swiched out of it and it had taken 3-4 months for him to be back at full power.
__________________
|
|
2009-04-21, 21:17 | Link #484 | |||
Demon King
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In between universes
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Possibility but not likely. Isshin might fight Aizen eventually but will lose. It's usually the main character of the story to win against the main bad guy. It's always been Ichigo's job to kill the main bad guy so this time shouldn't be different than past arcs. |
|||
2009-04-21, 21:36 | Link #485 | |
The Procrastinator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: it's too dark to tell...
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-04-21, 22:10 | Link #486 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm curious to see what happened after (how Urahara eventually helps the Vizards, how the Vizards gain control, whether they're in special gigais that they never leave, like how Urahara never seems to leave a gigai but normal people seem to be able to see them and he can materialize his zanpaktou, etc.) and how Isshin comes into play and how he meets Urahara. There is such a huge chunk of time that is missing. Last edited by sakuraame; 2009-04-21 at 22:20. Reason: incorrect memory about Tessai and Urahara's original sentencing |
||
2009-04-22, 20:57 | Link #487 | ||
Demon King
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In between universes
|
Quote:
We don't know if the vizard woke up after Urahara and Tessai were captured. If they woke up, and they realized what happened, they'd take off their masks because they'd be able to since they only went halfway. Then Yourichi helped get them get away if they weren't strong enough. The hollow masks as far as I know don't just dissapear when you take them off when you're yourself, so they'd remain physical. This would set up the senario of the Soul Society finding the masks for proof and they escape alive. Now if Central 46 said they were victims, they need to find them to prove what happened and if they can't find them, they'd assume they were alive and escaped. If they couldn't even find the hollows they would've turned into or they can't find find their bodies, that would be their only conclusion. That would change their belief to that the Vizard gained those powers through their want and running away because they didn't want to be caught and thus getting a kind of sentence for running away from the authorities. Their new sentence for Urahara and tessai would then be helping them with what they did. We still don't know if they knew that Yourichi was involved. So when they escaped, they just hid and Yoruichi just in case. Now seeing as we know next to nothing about Isshin, he could've heard the newer report and thus got his opinion. Quote:
Also, one startling thing is Isshin knew where the Vizard were all along. In fact, he even knew what their reiatsu was like, since he knew that one of them met up with Ichigo at the exact moment he was busy brushing GF aside like an ant. This saids that he already knew them and where they were all along so when he was still a shinigami, it would've been too easy to tell Central 46. This saids he really didn't think they were guilty or he had some relation to them and was trying to protect them from being found out and could've been found out and had his powers sealed. Also, as a side note, if the Vizard were actually in those draining bodies, they would become human a long time ago and also would've been undetectable while their powers were being drained(which those gigai do) Therefore, they are in regular ggais like Urahara in that they can use their zanpaktou and powers while being in a human form like Urahara. |
||
2009-04-22, 21:56 | Link #488 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
|
Quote:
Also Shinji and co. were still pretty out of it as when Yoruichi brought them to the cave they were just kind of piled together like laundry. Plus they weren't fully Vizard as we understand them right now. Urahara states that his attempt to use the Hougyoku failed which would probably point to them being in the same condition as they were before: incapacitated. The battle to overcome their hollows haven't begun. Hyori took the longest to control hers (13 hours I think?) and from what we've seen with Ichigo's Vizard training, it took all the present Vizard to keep Ichigo busy while he battled. There is no way that all of them could become fully fledged Vizard in the span of less than 24 hours. Quote:
I don't know if Isshin has known where the Vizard were along or that he doesn't think that they were guilty. I still maintain that if he had any inkling that they weren't guilty then he wouldn't call them criminal shinigami or say that "we never found their base of operations nor uncovered their goals. They're a tough one." (Ch. 188) He probably tracked them and pursued them long enough to recognize the combination of hollow and shinigami reiastu. Also he doesn't seem to have any more connection to Soul Society so he isn't really bound to tell them anything now or extensively track them anymore, especially since his son has become a Vizard. Last edited by sakuraame; 2009-04-22 at 21:59. Reason: I have grammar problems... |
||
2009-04-22, 23:08 | Link #489 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
One thought hit me Urahara was only trying to dehollowfy the vizzards. He also seems not to have been around when the vizzards learned to control their inner hollows since as Ichigo said "if he knew any more he(Urahara) would have told me" durring the time he was haveing issues controling his inner hollow. So maybe the statement Isshin said about the vizzards is both true and missleading. They are outlaws through no fault of their own (as were Urahara and crew) but they may have later used forbiden spells to gain control of their inner hollows.
__________________
|
2009-04-22, 23:14 | Link #490 | |
Senior Member
Artist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In your mom's pants
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-04-23, 00:08 | Link #491 | |
The Procrastinator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: it's too dark to tell...
|
Quote:
Yes, Isshin can detect a Vizard’s reiatsu; it’s probably very different from that of a Shinigami or a Hollow. He most likely saw the difference in his own son’s reiatsu too and probably connected the dots, or already knew. It doesn’t say anything about whether or not he thinks they’re guilty. Remember, he refers to them in derogatory terminology. So, that leads viewers to believe that he doesn’t know much about the subject. I believe that he probably is trying to figure out what they did to become Vizards, just because his son is one too. He’s probably putting two and two together and seeing that Hollow + Hōgyoku = More developed/powerful Arrancar which probably means Shinigami + Hōgyoku = Vizard I don’t think Isshin is as stupid as he portrays himself to be. Where is it mentioned that the Vizards are in the ‘draining gigai’ you speak of? They’re just in regular gigai aren’t they? Rukia is the only one that has been con into wearing one of those. The Vizards, I believe, probably, left Japan and went somewhere else into hiding to train and that whatnot. They most likely came back when they either noticed Ichigo’s unnatural reiatsu or Urahara contacted them saying that Aizen had made his move and asked them to help Ichigo/ the world in general.
__________________
|
|
2009-04-23, 03:59 | Link #492 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
No, you're thinking of how long she could hold her mask not controling her hollow they all had to fight it and comments durring Ichigo's fight makes it seem what they went through was at least simmiler and it was only 15 hours. And shinji clealy did something that knocked Ichigo out and sent him to his inner world.
__________________
|
2009-04-23, 15:52 | Link #493 | |
Senior Member
Artist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In your mom's pants
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-04-23, 21:12 | Link #494 | |||
Demon King
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In between universes
|
Quote:
There's also the question that if you gain those powers, would you not be like a hollow or as bad as one? That's why I can see a spell like that being forbidden if there was one(which is possible since Aizen had to use something to hollowify those shinigami in his experiments. Quote:
Ichigo however, seems to have completely broken the barrier on his own. He was shinigami until he had to gain his shinigami powers back. He got so close to crossing the barrier that time and perhaps broken it but in the last second turning shinigami again. Then a few times during the bount arc and the SS arc, he turned hollow but held onto human form and by himself crossed back into a shinigami. He was crossing that barrier many times already, but once he mastered his inner hollow, he was able to get into the middle of the barrier and become both Shinigami and Hollow at will thus he became a Vizard. Quote:
|
|||
2009-04-24, 01:08 | Link #495 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
|
Quote:
Quote:
I think that the process differed with the Vizard and Ichigo because the Vizard were shinigami when they were being hollowified. Their shinigami powers allow them some venue to fight against the hollowification process and thus were able to remain in half-hollow forms for longer periods of time then Ichigo. It's not that they were in between the barrier, its that their shinigami powers were able to keep the hollows at bay for a while. Ichigo however was a normal human soul when his hollowification process began. He would have turned into a hollow if he didn't break the barrier as it were and become a shinigami, thus effectively keeping his weaker hollow side at bay. At least until it got powerful enough to fight for control and then Ichigo had to physically beat his hollow into submission. Of course this is all speculation as the exact mechanics of the Hougyoku haven't been revealed, and is not something that I am expecting to be explained in detail anyways. |
||
2009-05-02, 18:08 | Link #496 |
Siclife6
Join Date: May 2009
Location: San Pedro C.A.
|
My theory for isshin kurosaki
I believe isshin is related to the shiba clan maybe brother or cousin also believe that Isshin might have been one of the kings royal guard however his time as a royal guard ended with the death Kaien Shiba. What I mean is when he found out about Kaien's death he may have abandoned his post as royal guard their for disgracing the Shiba clan maybe he was capture by 13 court guards and put on trial by central 46 his punishment was to be stricken of his powers and banish to the real world for his rest of his life. Note this is the same punishment that was going to be used on Urahara if we recall. As far as his relationship with Ryuken Ishida and just talking out of my ass maybe ryuken is related to Masaki Kurosaki maybe sister this would explain Ichigo's Kurosaki strength that would make him pure blood shinigami and a quincy that would explain why Isshin and Ryuken were questioning each other's parenting methods. Well thats my theory if u have something to contribute to make my theory even better help me out .
|
2009-05-02, 21:24 | Link #497 | |
Senior Member
Artist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In your mom's pants
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-05-03, 23:21 | Link #500 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
Well we realy aren't sure about not being able to see GF. She did warn him away from the river edge where GF was and she was able to sheild him with her body from GF something that would be hard to do if she did not know he was there.
__________________
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|