Character Discussion - Kallen

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I'll just say this: If there is a Kallen X Gino pairing at the end of this, I just might have to kill myself. I personally would rather see her single than with some mediocre secondary character.

My sentiments exactly.

I'm not sure what is worse anymore. Psycho ex GF Kallen of GinoXKallen

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by yvj

Gino was there to help Kallen get in.

You know what I don't believe. That they would allow Kallen to NEVER understand Lelouch when that was her goal through the whole season.

Gino is not going to suddenly be a player when his Tristan is smacked up and his best friend has from his perception joined the dark side.

Gino has more important things to think about. Kallen either for love or for taking his life has only been thinking about Lelouch even after the kiss.

And its ridiculous to think that Gino would save Kallen from Suzaku somehow and she would just start chatting to him about "why do you love me?"

Why would she care what Gino thinks? When she wants answers from Lelouch

At this point she's past wanting answers. She just want's to kill him so she can go emo over it for a couple of weeks, or maybe forever.

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by yvj

Gino was there to help Kallen get in.

You know what I don't believe. That they would allow Kallen to NEVER understand Lelouch when that was her goal through the whole season.

Gino is not going to suddenly be a player when his Tristan is smacked up and his best friend has from his perception joined the dark side.

Gino has more important things to think about. Kallen either for love or for taking his life has only been thinking about Lelouch even after the kiss.

And its ridiculous to think that Gino would save Kallen from Suzaku somehow and she would just start chatting to him about "why do you love me?"

Why would she care what Gino thinks? When she wants answers from Lelouch

Gino is thinking the same way as Kallen, to stop Lelouch and Suzaku. besides, these last 3 episodes have been a WTF in your face since the roles were reverse and Kallen's character has changed.


if not then she basically is going to say the gum line to herself then or if it is to Lelouch it is not going to face to face but probably when Lelouch starts Zero R. and it is from a distance.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

sounds to me that Kallen's gum line is going to be said to Gino when Suzaku is going to land a killing blow to Kallen but Gino steps in and takes the hit.

so i bet some possible romance was there that wasnt shown if it is played out like that.

How many times do I have to make this post? 愛 will not be used towards Gino, 好き is what could possibly be used towards Gino as Kallen used with C.C.. If you want a more detailed reason as to why this will not happen unless the writer just wants to offend people with his mockery of the language, then look at my post history for a longer explanation.

Originally Posted by Eliarine

But couldn't she use it on purpose, to point how how crazy that would be? It's "something like "aishiteru"", after all. I don"t know, like, "what the heck did you do that for? And don't give me no stupid ass reason!"

That could work (if it were towards Lelouch), but the rest of the line makes it seem like a stretch to be this possibility. She is using an incredibly powerful word which means she has to either be expecting it or she has to herself be experiencing it. Which is why, as I've said before, there is a duality in that she may be talking about herself since in the gum-line there is no specification as to whom it is talking. Suffice to say, the line cannot possibly be used towards Gino unless it really is an arbitrary ass-pull. This is a word people use very, very sparingly. They are not going to use it to make something sound ridiculous, they'll use 大好き or just 好き. A word like 愛 can only appear after a lot of thought and certainty from the parties involved.

Originally Posted by Narona

I still don't really understand in which context the word "aishiteru" can be used... so sorry if my question seems stupid.

A rare context, is my only real answer.

Originally Posted by Narona

IIRC what some people said, it's used between married people or at least official couple (Am I wrong?)

愛 denotes, also, pure love between lovers. It is most commonly (and by this I mean very sparingly) used by people who are truly in love with one another in the purest sense of the word. People who live for one another. And, if you look at Kallen's character song, where 愛 appears again, the lyrics imply just that.

Originally Posted by Narona

But lelouch is still not her boyfriend so, if she says that to him, is it not also offensive towards lelouch?

Not necessarily. If it is Kallen expressing herself, then she can use 愛 if she is truly that in love with Lelouch. Lelouch could also be using it if he is that in love with her. They do not need to be a couple or official to use such words.

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

word? Gino is the player and funny go looking type of guy. he probably was flirting with Kallen. Kallen will probably ask why and then give her gum line since there was no real good reason for him to take the hit.

See above in relation to Eliriane's post.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

At this point she's past wanting answers. She just want's to kill him so she can go emo over it for a couple of weeks, or maybe forever.

Past wanting answers eh?

You may be right Kallen may end up being a train wreck.

I'm saying if Lelouch opens himself up about Zero requiem and anything else (anything that will lead her to learning the truth or coming to understand him. Which has been her goal for most of the season)

And she passes it up to keep raging = wasted development = *Bang* Character assassination

[youngde]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

i dont believe that she has a valid reason for her to meet with him again for something important.

Her goal for the past couple of episodes has been to reach Lelouch (admittably to kill him since she believes that he is NOT the Lelouch she fell in love with). Her plot line for the entire season has centered upon finding the real Lelouch, and she realized she loved him when they kissed. For the director/writer/etc. to just ignore those two facts at the end would be very odd. Somehow the resolution of her feelings for Lelouch has something to do with the climax of the series, otherwise they wouldn't have let it drag out this long. (Or it is the most contrived reason in the history of writing to get the Albion and the SEITEN to fight.)

Her confrontation w/ Lelouch will lead to something important. At the very least it will give closure to her plot line (which, I'm sorry, but them kissing and her saying goodbye forever after trying so hard to know the real Lelouch is NOT closure--or at least it's very poor closure that will piss off alot of people).

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

At this point she's past wanting answers. She just want's to kill him so she can go emo over it for a couple of weeks, or maybe forever.

I won't deny that she's past wanting answers. She thinks she got her answer: She been a pawn to Lelouch the whole time and the Lelouch she loved never existed. The point is, that's the WRONG answer. Her plot line has revolved around her finding the real Lelouch, and I believe she WILL find that in the end. Then, as her character song says, she'll be able to 'move forward on the path you believed in.'

Kallen's character has changed

Not particularly. For the entire series, since Zero taught her that her enemy was Britannia, not Britannians, she's always been a pashionate fighter against the oppression of her country and working to bring about a peaceful world. She's staying true to the ideals that Lelouch taught her as Zero, even if she thinks that the Lelouch that taught her these things is a lie. She's always been a little hot headed in battle; Lelouch was able to reign that in mostly, so it's little surprise that w/o him there, she's going more wild than usual, especially considering that she feels personally responsible for Lelouch's rise to power.

The only really thing that has changed is that she now feels that the man she feel in love with is a fraud and a tyrant out to destroy everything she's been fighting for all series. That requires a certain amount of resolution before the end, which I feel she will receive.

Man, I gotta stop quoting before I fill an entire page with one post.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

Gino is thinking the same way as Kallen, to stop Lelouch and Suzaku. besides, these last 3 episodes have been a WTF in your face since the roles were reverse and Kallen's character has changed.

Her character has not changed. Circumstances have changed. And that doesn't mean anything to her loving Gino, which no matter how you rationalize would be nothing less than a total asspull at this point. They've had zero romantic development, and the word used would require at least something.

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

if not then she basically is going to say the gum line to herself then or if it is to Lelouch it is not going to face to face but probably when Lelouch starts Zero R. and it is from a distance.

Or she meets him face to face after getting past Suzaku. You can ignore the other possibilities but they're still there.

[linkinstreet]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

Gino is thinking the same way as Kallen, to stop Lelouch and Suzaku. besides, these last 3 episodes have been a WTF in your face since the roles were reverse and Kallen's character has changed.


if not then she basically is going to say the gum line to herself then or if it is to Lelouch it is not going to face to face but probably when Lelouch starts Zero R. and it is from a distance.

Gino would more probably be concerned about Suzaku's well being than flirting around. He's a tease, and flirts, but he cares about suzaku (not as infuated as Kanon with Schneizel tho). Just as Kallen wants to understand WHY Lelouch are doing this, Gino wants to understand Suzaku

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by yvj

Past wanting answers eh?

You may be right Kallen may end up being a train wreck.

I'm saying if Lelouch opens himself up about Zero requiem and anything else (anything that will lead her to learning the truth or coming to understand him. Which has been her goal for most of the season)

And she passes it up to keep raging = wasted development = *Bang* Character assassination

No! I don't want that!

[youngde]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

if not then she basically is going to say the gum line to herself then or if it is to Lelouch it is not going to face to face but probably when Lelouch starts Zero R. and it is from a distance.

Why is her getting past Suzaku so hard for people to believe? She a girl with the power of an extremely powerful love/hate (Love for the Lelouch she thought she knew/Hate for the Lelouch that apparently is real). I wouldn't get in the way of that.

At any rate, I personally think that Suzaku is going to (accidentally) spill something, which is why Animedia wrote that conversation where Kallen, Gino and Anya are talking about Lelouch and Suzaku's promise. I doubt the conversation will occur as is in the magazine, but the essence of the first was in episode 23 (w/ pretty much the same cast), so I think it will happen again. I don't find it at all out of the realm of possibility that Lelouch, Suzaku, Kallen, Gino and Anya (and, I would assume Nunnally) would all be in the same place at the end. Besides, I doubt Kallen's 'essentialness' to the plot involves being Suzaku's last fight in the series.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by youngde

Why is her getting past Suzaku so hard for people to believe? She a girl with the power of an extremely powerful love/hate (Love for the Lelouch she thought she knew/Hate for the Lelouch that apparently is real). I wouldn't get in the way of that.

Well it depends. Obviously Lelouch needs to deal with Nunnally by himself with no interruptions.

At any rate, I personally think that Suzaku is going to (accidentally) spill something, which is why Animedia wrote that conversation where Kallen, Gino and Anya are talking about Lelouch and Suzaku's promise. I doubt the conversation will occur as is in the magazine, but the essence of the first was in episode 23 (w/ pretty much the same cast), so I think it will happen again. I don't find it at all out of the realm of possibility that Lelouch, Suzaku, Kallen, Gino and Anya (and, I would assume Nunnally) would all be in the same place at the end. Besides, I doubt Kallen's 'essentialness' to the plot involves being Suzaku's last fight in the series.

How reliable is that conversation spoiler?

That and it's obviously where everyone isn't fighting anymore since Gino is saying that they should leave the two to their promise.

Kallen also says she betrayed the BK's didn't she in that conversation?

[youngde]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

How reliable is that conversation spoiler?

That and it's obviously where everyone isn't fighting anymore since Gino is saying that they should leave the two to their promise.

Kallen also says she betrayed the BK's didn't she in that conversation?

Well, the basics of the first appeared in episode 23, so I think the essence of the conversation will be in the last episode (since there is no where else it could be). Also, I think Kallen was referring to what promise could be so important that it would have led Lelouch to betray the BKs.

[tsukishima]

The real problem with the gumline is that it ignores context. Aishiteru while a strong word can be used properly in context without the intention of romantic love. The use of it is or is not appropriate without taking into account the context or the speaker, the listener and the circumstances. What is appropriate at first can change if any of the 3 (speaker/listener/circumstances) change.

It is not an esoteric and magical word that is shrouded in secrecy and mystique. There are couples even dating people who might use it depending on the circumstances of the 3 I mentioned above.

For instance, even in English. There are people who rarely use the word love and people who do. How many married couples actually bother to say that regularly to each other. Certainly there are those who do! It is a dependent on what sort of personal relationship the conversation and context is.

It can be used to describe affection for a country or ideological principle.
It can be used for a joke or even flirting. In which case the word loses its romantic meaning.
And it of course can be used for romantic involvements.

The described possibilities which include Karen using it for country or on a Gino who took more personal risks then expected can also be possible. Certainly it can be sued on Lulu.

I agree that Karen should find out more about Lulu but it doesn't have to involve using her gumline and it definitely doesn't have to be during the battle. I can see him and her sharing a quiet explanatory moment after the war where he express his reasons for leaving her out of the loop (all the appropriate reasons come in here).

Of course it can also be during the battle but we should consider all possibilities. There is more then one way to reach the goal after all.

Tsukishima

[yvj]

But then why would they put a possible throwaway line towards Gino as her gumline.

I thought the gumlines were important character points

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by yvj

But then why would they put a possible throwaway line towards Gino as her gumline.

I thought the gumlines were important character points

At this point we should probably prepare for anything.

I mean when Kallen and Suzaku fight they could all of a sudden bring something up that stops the fight in all.

[tsukishima]

Can someone explain what a gumline is? Where it comes from? What it means towards a series? I haven't much experience with this concept.

Tsukishima

[Tokkan]

C.C.
Hurry up and go. And then come back. You said you will make me smile.
「早く行って、そして戻ってこい、私に笑顔をくれるんだろ」 (Spoken in Turn24)

Kozuki Kallen
If you say something like "I love you (or him/her/someone)", I won't forgive you.
「愛してるなんて言ったら許さないから」

Nunnally Lamperouge
I will put an end to oniisama's sin.
「お兄様の罪は私が断ちます」 (Spoken in Turn23)

Anya
People's memories are vague. (Already spoken in Turn16.)

These are Gumlines. Bolded was added in by me, C+P from Koshimizu's blog. They were originally going to be on the gum cards released after the series.

[tsukishima]

Kallen's one intentionally omits the subject. Leaving the possibility that it might be used on a non character context.

I would translate it as:

"If you use the word love, or something to that extent, for this (context), I won't forgive you."

The forgive you aspect sounds unnecessarily harsh and doesn't need to be. It has become a word that can be used in a non serious setting in response to a prank or someone nicking the food off your plate.

The bracketed (context) was added because the subject is intentionally left out. Thus the context is unknown.

I added "or something to that extent" because it isn't always part of the sentence pattern. The extra words after 'aishiteru' do give that meaning. Increasing the potential context it can be used in.

Tsukishima

[Tael]

Originally Posted by tsukishima

The real problem with the gumline is that it ignores context. Aishiteru while a strong word can be used properly in context without the intention of romantic love. The use of it is or is not appropriate without taking into account the context or the speaker, the listener and the circumstances. What is appropriate at first can change if any of the 3 (speaker/listener/circumstances) change.

While you are certainly correct that out of context we know little, the word is for romantic love or real love. Now, about why the rest of your post is incredibly ill informed.

Originally Posted by tsukishima

It is not an esoteric and magical word that is shrouded in secrecy and mystique. There are couples even dating people who might use it depending on the circumstances of the 3 I mentioned above.

No. Just any couple would never use this word. Not in Japan, and not with one or the other party looking at the speaker oddly. This is not a common conversation word, its not a common word. Period. Couples will use 好き. Really, really, intimet couples will use 愛 akin to the American idea of soul mates.

Originally Posted by tsukishima

For instance, even in English.

This is not English, languages have their own guidelines and rules set up by the culture respective to the language.

Originally Posted by tsukishima

There are people who rarely use the word love and people who do. How many married couples actually bother to say that regularly to each other. Certainly there are those who do! It is a dependent on what sort of personal relationship the conversation and context is.

No. This is not a word like 'I love you', there is no English equivalent to this word. While some people may not use 'love' often, or use it sparingly, just about no one will ever use 愛 without a lot of consideration and forethought. No matter the context, this word will not just appear in conversation.

Originally Posted by tsukishima

It can be used to describe affection for a country or ideological principle.

No. There are words like 愛慕 that are much more fitting for an object or nation. 愛してる is almost explicitly limited to people about people.

Originally Posted by tsukishima

It can be used for a joke or even flirting. In which case the word loses its romantic meaning.

No. It cannot and would not ever be used in such a manner. Again, this is not English.

Originally Posted by tsukishima

And it of course can be used for romantic involvements.

This and parential, from parent to child, are the normal ways of using this word and even when I say normal they are used incredibly sparingly and require a good deal of attachment and love between the parties.

Originally Posted by tsukishima

The described possibilities which include Karen using it for country or on a Gino who took more personal risks then expected can also be possible. Certainly it can be sued on Lulu.

No. For the last time. No. The word will not work in any of these situations unless the writers have decided to insult the language.

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

yes, word, and the word used is not flirting. He'd say "suki" if anything. Kallen would never jump to that conclusion, especially about someone she has zero interest in. Gino has served his purpose by getting Kallen inside the shield. He's not going to interfere in the battle when he only has half a Knightmare left. Pairing her with Gino is just a way to her away from Lelouch.

Kallen's goal may be to stop him, but that doesn't mean everything about them has been resolved. Lelouch has yet to answer her questions, so that still needs to be resolved.

he is not exactly disable, he can still interfere in the battle, especially when two equal mechs battle each other to a stand still or lock up, he might be able to do something. they are in a confine area. anyway this is a guess on my part.

this is not a pairing situation but a gum line possibly to say why did Gino actually would take a hit for Kallen assuming that actually happens. one possible way is ofcourse Kallen thinking that Gino likes/loves her and saying her gumline .

if it is not then i can imagine Kallen saying it to herself after being defeated by Suzaku and then seeing Lelouch and C.C. starting Zero R. and saying his goodbyes to everyone and mentioning a select few .