Darker Than Black - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Kaoru Chujo]

@Joe_fh:
1. Yeah, it probably depends on what one has seen, or in my case not seen.

2. Hei said he wanted to kill Yin, and probably thought he did, but he had very mixed feelings. He clearly stopped Madame Oreille from doing it, and then stopped Suou, and we know from the preview of the OVA that he and Yin had been very close, like lovers or siblings. After her betrayal (?) he became a depressed monster roaming the void, in the pay of whoever wanted him to kill whomever, but he ended up having to spend time with Suou, even to be a mentor to her, and her vulnerable struggling humanity drew out his, episode by episode. She silently and unintentionally healed him. And the prospect of seeing Yin gave the whole thing focus. At least that's how I felt it. But I can understand an opposite view.

3. I'm willing to accept the book, and even the camera, for the sake of the tale, but neither really makes sense, after the plunge into the icy water. Unless this whole world is imaginary in some way. Which isn't impossible....

[Ice Block]

People are missing the real twist: Suou died eight years ago.

We were expecting that she died 2 years ago in the meteor incident, but now we don't even have a clue to how she died. It's not connected to the appearance of the gate, since that would be 12-13 years ago. However, it might be related to the Heaven's Gate incident (and the war that caused it). The problem is, South America is a tad far away from where the Pavlichenko family should have been at that time (either Japan or Russia). Maybe it was some random accident or illness?

Because of this, we got theories like the ones stating that Shion's first project as a contractor was Suou, and Dad copied over Shion's memories to her (this also explains why Dad wants Suou to stay away from Shion, and the relationship between the many origami works in Shion's room and her remuneration).

And Hei's character didn't start changing when he saw Yin: it started a little further back. Actually, what made him reconsider himself was when Suou told him "I hate you". Yin was only the catalyst.

Personally, I don't think he specifically knew that Yin was the one being transported -- he sure looked surprised when Genma told him about Yin, and then when July confirmed that the thing they were ordered to destroy was Yin (Mao also did not know that Yin was inside the thing, and he was also under Oreille). This is further proved by the fact that he told his informer (Madam Oreille) that she was untrustworthy when she didn't reveal her motives. What I think is, Hei did not know the true identity of the thing he was so bent on killing back in the earlier eps. He might have received cryptic or insufficient (false even) info from Oreille.

For the bag, well, it was Suou who dragged Hei to the dilapidated building, so maybe it was there all along.

[risingstar3110]

Just watched this episode, and we need a poll to show which Hei's better at: "killing contractors" or "kidnapping girl 's heart"

Hey Shion, your mother got your name mixed off with your twin brother. She does not even remember that you are still alive either. Thought that we can't have any worse mom this season, do we?

Ah yeah, it was fun how Kiko and her friend were angry at their own appearance, (Damn the director!!)

[ac195]

Wow, just wow...

@ those last 10 secs after the creds.... "WHAT A TWIST!!!"

[orion]

I have faith in that mother. I think that Suou is the real Shion and there was a gender switch in the registry. No way a person can mistake the gender difference especially for 13 yos when one is wearing a braid down to her butt with a bow on it.

So here is my complicated theory because I feel that a second shoe hasn't dropped yet and leaving it like this is too simple...

Shion and her family were for some reason at Heaven's Gate. Shion witnesses Suou getting shot. Shion becomes a contractor and her 1st thing is to recreate Suou. Dad protects Shion by doing the gender switch in the registry and raises recreated Suou as the male Shion. Original Shion's memory is erased and has a new personality as Suou. Orignal Shion is a study subject whose existence was leaked. Current Shion becomes a contractor at age 11 and becomes a study subject. Current Suou used her abilites a second time to bring the other 2 back to life. Dad has do something in the registry a second time now to protect current Shion (prob removed him). Current Shion finds out about Suou and develops a plan to bring Izanami (Yin) and Izanagi (current Suou) together.

Izanagi and Izanami merge like in GitS and a new contractor is born. That's what people are trying to prevent.

Dad found out about the plan and Current Shion killed him and replaced him with a clone that was made for their escape using Suou's (original Shion's) duplicated powers.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by orion

I have faith in that mother. I think that Suou is the real Shion and there was a gender switch in the registry. No way a person can mistake the gender difference especially for 13 yos when one is wearing a braid down to her butt with a bow on it.

So here is my complicated theory because I feel that a second shoe hasn't dropped yet and leaving it like this is too simple...

Shion and her family were for some reason at Heaven's Gate. Shion witnesses Suou getting shot. Shion becomes a contractor and her 1st thing is to recreate Suou. Dad protects Shion by doing the gender switch in the registry and raises recreated Suou as the male Shion. Original Shion's memory is erased and has a new personality as Suou. Orignal Shion is a study subject whose existence was leaked. Current Shion becomes a contractor at age 11 and becomes a study subject. Current Suou used her abilites a second time to bring the other 2 back to life. Dad has do something in the registry a second time now to protect current Shion (prob removed him). Current Shion finds out about Suou and develops a plan to bring Izanami (Yin) and Izanagi (current Suou) together.

Izanagi and Izanami merge like in GitS and a new contractor is born. That's what people are trying to prevent.

Dad found out about the plan and Current Shion killed him and replaced him with a clone that was made for their escape using Suou's (original Shion's) duplicated powers.

But if that were so, wouldn't it mean, current Suo would have two contractor abilities?
And then what would be current Shion's powers?

[hei]

I found one interesting thing when I checked up the production staff of episode 9. Surprisingly, storyboard of the episode was made by Tensai Okamura, the director of the series. That is, in terms of the staff being thrown in, episode 9 is probably the best so far.

BTW, there is a bad news for Norio-haters. Initially, Sugar Shotaro who was the main writer of S1 was expected to write concluding episodes of S2. However, it seems that he's too busy with ODA works, so it's said that his involvement of S2 will be reduced to the final episode only. Then, who will do the job for episode 10 and 11? It's not confirmed but peoples say Okada Mari had written ep 10. She had already written episode 4, 5, and 6, and introduced henshin-scenes and the Norio family in S2. Who knows that we may see Norio again in episode 10!

So better to be prepared mentally. Kiko already gave you a warning by saying "the show was starting to get good and serious... damn the director!"


ps. Correction: I edit the initial post because it contains wrong information. That is, the writer of ep 9 is Onishi Shinsuke (大西信介) while the episode director is another Onishi (Onishi Keisuke, 大西景介). I mistakenly said that they are same person. Also, there is no reliable rumor about ep 11 writer as yet.

[Haladflire65]

Originally Posted by hei

I found one interesting thing when I checked up the production staff of episode 9. Onishi Shinsuke who wrote the script of the episode was the episode director as well. He had already written two episodes (7 & 8), but it's first time to do the episode director job. Surprisingly, storyboard of the episode was also made by Tensai Okamura, the director of the series. That is, in terms of the staff being thrown in, episode 9 is probably the best so far.

BTW, there is a bad news for Norio-haters. Initially, Sugar Shotaro who was the main writer of S1 was expected to write concluding episodes of S2. However, it seems that he's too busy with ODA works, so it's said that his involvement of S2 will be reduced to the final episode only. Then, who will do job of episode 10 and 11? It's not confirmed but peoples say it would be Okada Mari. She had already written episode 4, 5, and 6, and introduced henshin-scenes and the Norio family in S2, which means we may see Norio again in episode 10!

So better to be prepared mentally. Kiko already gave you a warning by saying "the show was starting to get good and serious... damn the director!"

...well, that sucks. You mean, we could have had a S1 vibe for episodes 10~12, and now it's taken away from us?!

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by hei

I found one interesting thing when I checked up the production staff of episode 9. Onishi Shinsuke who wrote the script of the episode was the episode director as well. He had already written two episodes (7 & 8), but it's first time to do the episode director job. Surprisingly, storyboard of the episode was also made by Tensai Okamura, the director of the series. That is, in terms of the staff being thrown in, episode 9 is probably the best so far.

BTW, there is a bad news for Norio-haters. Initially, Sugar Shotaro who was the main writer of S1 was expected to write concluding episodes of S2. However, it seems that he's too busy with ODA works, so it's said that his involvement of S2 will be reduced to the final episode only. Then, who will do job of episode 10 and 11? It's not confirmed but peoples say it would be Okada Mari. She had already written episode 4, 5, and 6, and introduced henshin-scenes and the Norio family in S2, which means we may see Norio again in episode 10!

So better to be prepared mentally. Kiko already gave you a warning by saying "the show was starting to get good and serious... damn the director!"

Fascinating info. Thanks. But I disagree with your inferences. There is no way that Okamura Tensai -- who is the lead writer himself -- is not the one who decides when Suou will use her powers and have the henshin scene. Nor is it possible that anyone other than he decided to introduce Norio. The episode directors give us details of flow and words, but not the overall plot, as I understand the process.

Haladfire may be right about "vibes," but I can't believe that major things like when Suou will use her powers or the introduction of entire characters are left up to episode writers.

Of course, I myself like the Okada Mari eps as much as or more than any -- except maybe this last one. And except for Norio, for which I don't blame her. Although, unfortunately, I always have expected to see Norio reappear.

[orion]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

But if that were so, wouldn't it mean, current Suo would have two contractor abilities?
And then what would be current Shion's powers?

Not if her contractor abilites is to reproduce someone/something from her memory. The only difference between then and now is that the necklace makes it temporary. The fragment could dampen the abilites and not enhance them which would be a reason why people are after it.

Current Shion's ability has not been demonstrated yet. Being the identical twin that was hidden if current Shion is female, he may have the exact same abilities. Or following the Gemini myth, not have anything at all serving only as the ultimate decoy for current Suou.

Doesn't it seem like Shion and dad are waiting for something/someone other than Yin? And at that aquarium too?

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Although, unfortunately, I always have expected to see Norio reappear.

Why? His involvement ended when his mother died. The only other male that Suou wants to see other than her brother and father is Hei.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by orion

Why? His involvement ended when his mother died. The only other male that Suou wants to see other than her brother and father is Hei.

I agree.

I thought he was going to get more involved into the story and form some sort of bond with Suou, but his involvement in the story pretty much concluded after his mother died.

And I'm glad. I don't see any reason for him to reappear either.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by orion

...Why [expect Norio back]? His involvement ended when his mother died. The only other male that Suou wants to see other than her brother and father is Hei.

You're right. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic. At this point, he would have no purpose. At the time he was around, however, I had a foreboding he might reappear. I certainly hope not.

[Joe_fh]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

People are missing the real twist: Suou died eight years ago.

We were expecting that she died 2 years ago in the meteor incident, but now we don't even have a clue to how she died. It's not connected to the appearance of the gate, since that would be 12-13 years ago. However, it might be related to the Heaven's Gate incident (and the war that caused it). The problem is, South America is a tad far away from where the Pavlichenko family should have been at that time (either Japan or Russia). Maybe it was some random accident or illness?

Because of this, we got theories like the ones stating that Shion's first project as a contractor was Suou, and Dad copied over Shion's memories to her (this also explains why Dad wants Suou to stay away from Shion, and the relationship between the many origami works in Shion's room and her remuneration).

And Hei's character didn't start changing when he saw Yin: it started a little further back. Actually, what made him reconsider himself was when Suou told him "I hate you". Yin was only the catalyst.

Personally, I don't think he specifically knew that Yin was the one being transported -- he sure looked surprised when Genma told him about Yin, and then when July confirmed that the thing they were ordered to destroy was Yin (Mao also did not know that Yin was inside the thing, and he was also under Oreille). This is further proved by the fact that he told his informer (Madam Oreille) that she was untrustworthy when she didn't reveal her motives. What I think is, Hei did not know the true identity of the thing he was so bent on killing back in the earlier eps. He might have received cryptic or insufficient (false even) info from Oreille.

For the bag, well, it was Suou who dragged Hei to the dilapidated building, so maybe it was there all along.

Yep I missed that the first time I watched it
That would put Suou's death around the time of the aquarium flashback since that was the only time we saw Suou looking similar to a 5 year old. Her father was involved in the things that took place 2 years ago at the end of s1 because he knew about them. Also Suou is 13 years old and the gates appeared 13 years ago which added to what the twins said in the episode when she awakened means her existence is probably closely related to the Gates.

This might also explain the observation sprit Shion saw after the events 2 years ago since that was probably Suou considering she's probably a doll with the original personality implanted in her. That's probably not the case but we've seen something similar done before so it might actually work.

I also believe Hei didn't know Yin was the one being transported but he was ready to kill her and seemed angry at her just a little while ago. That was a big change of heart if you ask me. Even if he didn't know that he'll kill Yin right there and then he clearly said he wanted to kill her and he promissed to kill her. He quit working for Oreille after that time but that shouldn't really change the reason for him to want to kill Yin which is somewhere in the past two years (meaning the OVA)

I do agree with some of the points Kaoru Chujo made but the "She silently and unintentionally healed him" part is what's bothering me. Yes he changed with each episode but I didn't really see how it happened since one day he just started acting in a different way. Maybe it was really the "I hate you part" but Hei was so out of touch with reality and a depressed hobo at that time (no to mention his drinking problem) that I can't see how he actually cared what Suou said.But the old Hei from s1 cared about other random people so you might be right. Anyways thank for the good points and the different point of view.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by orion

Not if her contractor abilites is to reproduce someone/something from her memory. The only difference between then and now is that the necklace makes it temporary. The fragment could dampen the abilites and not enhance them which would be a reason why people are after it.

Hmm, that's a good point. Then again, that would be one crazy ability, for some really good remuneration.
Reproduce anything, just for folding cranes? Cool.
But then, what about current Shion's remuneration? He has to have an ability, and he's been using it. It doesn't seem to be the same, as his remuneration seems to be not walking, so either he's got the shit end of the stick, and has to pay loads for the same stuff his sister gets for free, or it's a different ability.

Originally Posted by Joe_fh

Yep I missed that the first time I watched it
That would put Suou's death around the time of the aquarium flashback since that was the only time we saw Suou looking similar to a 5 year old. Her father was involved in the things that took place 2 years ago at the end of s1 because he knew about them. Also Suou is 13 years old and the gates appeared 13 years ago which added to what the twins said in the episode when she awakened means her existence is probably closely related to the Gates.

This might also explain the observation sprit Shion saw after the events 2 years ago since that was probably Suou considering she's probably a doll with the original personality implanted in her. That's probably not the case but we've seen something similar done before so it might actually work.

It's actually quite confusing, that Yin is Izanami. First, the show is called "Ryuusei no Gemini", so you think it must be about the twins (duh), and you see these two stars, so you think one for each twin.
Then they tell you about Izanami and Izanagi, so you think that's going to be the twins. Then Yin is Izanami.
Yin?
What does she have to do with the twins? But okay, you think, one of the stars was blue, one red. So maybe just Yin and one of the twins.
Still, in order to be so, Yin has to have SOMETHING to do with the twins.
Was she the spirit- observational ghost Shion saw? Did she do something (to them)?
I also thought Suo was some sort of Doll, maybe first, but- the spirit looked relatively human, and we've not seen any other Doll except Yin like that...
We've seen fake memory on a doll, but contractor powers? It seems more likely she's a clone?!
There's SO many questions....

About Hei wanting to kill Yin, then changing his mind. He might not have known she was in the box, but Oreille did say, he wanted to kill her, and he himself of said so to.
I also did not like the change of heart, but it was necessary, if she has died there, then there would be little plot left. Also, for dramatic reasons.
regardless, I hope this comes into play again, because I think it's quite lame, if a character declares such intend one day, then never brings it up again and wants to save her instead or something.
There must have been something serious going on to reach that conclusion, and just tossing it aside ruins it.
(example: It would be like Heero and Relena in Gundam. Oh god, why did he not just shoot her. That lame loser. He had the chance to make it epic.)

[Kuroshinobu]

I'm curious as to why Madame Oreille knows so much about everything. Maybe she's somehow connected to Amber...

What a twist.

[Eisdrache]

Sorry for the stupid question but who is Izanagi? Izanami is Yin but I probably missed when the moment when they told us who Izanagi is.

[wandering-dreamer]

It appears to be Shion and, since no one in Japan seems to be able to identify gender anymore, they keep going after Suou thinking she's Shion, aka Izanagi.

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by Kuroshinobu

I'm curious as to why Madame Oreille knows so much about everything. Maybe she's somehow connected to Amber...

What a twist.

Maybe integer underflow revived her as a completely new character.

[Rima-Chan]

This episode was better than i expected. Plot twist at the end of episode realy suprised me xD

[hei]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

People are missing the real twist: Suou died eight years ago.

I think it's not safe to believe what Suou's mom told is true. Are her memories intact? She is a wife of Dr Pavlichenko, the founder of ME. It looks like her husband is hiding some important information from her. For example, she does not seem to know the fact that Shion is a contractor. I think Suou is not real, but I am not sure whether she died 8 years ago.

More importantly, this is related to the question about Shion's ability: Is his ability cloning or reviving of life? If it's cloning, how can he make a clone of the person who died several years ago. Or if Suou is a clone of Shion, how can you explain the change of gender? If his ability is reviving of life, how can you explain Dr Pavlichenko's clone that was killed by Hei? Now Suou's identity is revealed at least partially, on the contrary Shion's identity and ability becomes a bigger puzzle. (In this regard, I posted a rumor in the speculation thread which I think is quite plausible. )