Romance in Code Geass (take 4)

[nekowitch18]

Wait- About the returning to Ashford with him line, it doesn't have to be romantic does it? He asked CC to come back to Ashford with him in one of the picture dramas too didn't he?

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Did i say something to insult you or anything? I do not think so, so please do not put words in my mouth, i never said you are troll or anything.

Not you, but judging from this thread, social clubs and other discussions, not thinking Lelouch loved Kallen back is apparently becoming either pairing bashing, denial or trolling. And it's not too flattering.

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Obviously Kallen is so much more in love with Lelouch and her love is like 909093 huge mountains together, but can you honestly tell me that you can't see at least a romantic sparkle? Especially if the staff is backing it up?

Yes, I can. But like I said, I never saw his feelings towards Kallen as romantical. Lelouch is clueless when it comes to love, and he was already at a loss with Shirley's confessions. I think he honestly, deeply, strongly cared for Kallen. Just not romantically. Though I can see where you come from. I never said it was ridiculous to interpret those scenes as proofs, just that I don't see them like that.

As for the staff "backing it up", I said it already, all I see is them backing Kallen's feelings for Lelouch up. The rest is mainly interpretations for me, even if some try to impose them as the only ones making sense. I don't even think Kallen thought Lelouch loved her.

Originally Posted by incorrupts

And you can see this in Shirley+Lelouch? Which as much as i loved as pairing, compared to Kalulu in R2, it was way behind. About CCxLulu, it had not even started running its horses. That was still on the beginning point.

Depends on what you are comparing. Kallen and Lelouch had a lot of scenes together in R2, but that doesn't make Lelouch in love with her. And like I said in a previous post, I find more reasons to question Lelouch's feelings for Shirley than for Kallen.

That said, I'm off to bed. Have fun people~~

[Grey Dawn]

Originally Posted by Eliarine

I don't even think Kallen thought Lelouch loved her.

So we're back at "cannon material that disagrees with me doesn't exist!"

Yay.

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by Grey Dawn

So we're back at "cannon material that disagrees with me doesn't exist!"

Yay.

No, we're at "I disagree with your interpretation of canon material."

Learn the difference.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Eliarine

Not you, but judging from this thread, social clubs and other discussions, not thinking Lelouch loved Kallen back is apparently becoming either pairing bashing, denial or trolling. And it's not too flattering.

Hmm, some members yeah, but i think it is more the "backing up" your opinion that tickles certain fans and i can't really blame them for this.

Originally Posted by Eliarine

Yes, I can. But like I said, I never saw his feelings towards Kallen as romantical. Lelouch is clueless when it comes to love, and he was already at a loss with Shirley's confessions. I think he honestly, deeply, strongly cared for Kallen. Just not romantically. Though I can see where you come from. I never said it was ridiculous to interpret those scenes as proofs, just that I don't see them like that.

This sounds like preference. Another thing to prefer something and a whole other to deny some things that come directly from the staff, backing up, what a lot of people thought. I mean, do not get me wrong, but you saying that Shirlulu is closest to canon right? Why, because Lelouch blushed once in the cupid-day-thingie? I mean, it just seems to me that, when it comes to Kalulu it is like this::

1+1 = 2 about CCxL and Shirlulu.
1+1 = fjsghdk about Kalulu.

If you want to say that other couples have valid points, more than Kalulu in R2, then this does not make sense, considering their interaction.
OR, if you want to dismiss Kalulu, then i guess this applies to the rest of the ships as well.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by nekowitch18

Wait- About the returning to Ashford with him line, it doesn't have to be romantic does it? He asked CC to come back to Ashford with him in one of the picture dramas too didn't he?

Nope. CC said she wanted to experiment what lelouch already experimentds in the PD; After that, Lelouch told her when everything will be over, she will be able to come back with them and experiment all of that.

Kallen never asked for anything, lelouch asked this all alone. And this infamous "With me" makes the line very personnal. Especially in the position they were in. A suggestive position whish didn't bother them until CC saw them and they get all flustered. Fufufuh....

I'm not saying this line was romantic, but that it was a wish from Lelouch, to have her come back with him. certainly because she was a deep friend at this point.

Huh ? Kallen thought Lelouch loved her; The whole Thank you for your love, Aishiteru, Kallen understood lelouch's feelings, says she acknowledge Lelouch's feelings as Love.
What part of the last part of the poem people don't understand ?

[Narona]

Originally Posted by nekowitch18

Wait- About the returning to Ashford with him line, it doesn't have to be romantic does it? He asked CC to come back to Ashford with him in one of the picture dramas too didn't he?

Are you talking about the PD when they talk about opening a pizzeria?

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Aishiteru, Kallen understood lelouch's feelings, says she acknowledge Lelouch's feelings as Love.
What part of the last part of the poem people don't understand ?

Sorry to be too stupid to not understand that as the same line as "I know you loved me romantically".

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Nope. CC said she wanted to experiment what lelouch already experimentds in the PD; After that, Lelouch told her when everything will be over, she will be able to come back with them and experiment all of that.

Kallen never asked for anything, lelouch asked this all alone. And this infamous "With me" makes the line very personnal. Especially in the position they were in. A suggestive position whish didn't bother them until CC saw them and they get all flustered. Fufufuh....

I'm not saying this line was romantic, but that it was a wish from Lelouch, to have her come back with him. certainly because she was a deep friend at this point.

Huh ? Kallen thought Lelouch loved her; The whole Thank you for your love, Aishiteru, Kallen understood lelouch's feelings, says she acknowledge Lelouch's feelings as Love.
What part of the last part of the poem people don't understand ?

But i did not say it was zomg!romansuuu as well, i said it was one of the steps that was built for the whole Kalulu deal. And if you want, an inner realization {? close to} of Lelouch at time, the "with me" line is indeed personal.

And i am not sure that Kallen thought Lelouch loved her, for me, it seems like she is positive about it. Stronger that the word "think".
Then again, this is Kallen's POV so we can't really point it out and say "Lelouch-canon-ness"
But i am sure, Kallen is NOT that crazy to think stuff like these.

As for the being-in-lovesick-mode-she-says-wishful-thinkings, i am also positive that Shirley, never said that Lelouch loved her as well even if she was in love with him.
So the love-sick-girl card does not apply to Kallen either. Not really.

Kallen's own thoughts and views, a character that was involved with Lelouch in such an intense way, has more credibility compared to us, the fans. {and yep, Kallen=fiction so poem must be coming from the staff, does this count?}

[bladeofdarkness]

keep in mind that at the time when he asked her to come back to ashford with him, she was a wanted japanese terrorist (where as ashford is a britannian school)
lelouch would have had to litterally move mountains in order to create a situation in which kallen could go back to ashford again and not suffer for it (he achived this with ZERO-R after all)
by asking her to come back with him he was also in a sense promising her that if she said yes
he would do what ever it takes to make it possible
there is more to that request then you think

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Narona

Are you talking about the PD when they talk about opening a pizzeria?


Sorry to be too stupid to not understand that as the same line as "I know you loved me romantically".

Kallen is basically saying that she is bitter about the fact he choose to avoid to tell her Aishiteru to keep her alive while she wanted to be with him until the end, even if it meant to die.

Read Frost, dec4 prerogative about this Aishiteru line in a japanese matter; And even without that Kallen got the "Thank you for your love" of her song, I didn't even thought the fact kallen thought lelouch loved her could be discussed.

Sky : I avoid to use a wording more strong than "thing" it seems everything which is backing up kallen x lelouch romance too strongly is an insult to others pairings.
But yeah, it seems she KNEW it.

Well through Kallen we got writers words. If Kallen implies lelouch loved her, and if you add the recent stuff about that, I think you can have easily an affirmation.
Actually, while those who think Lelouch loved her have staff statement or anime moments to back up their ideas, most of the counters use interepretations. I think it's a lost fight in this case.

Without all of this, the simple fact they killed CluClu as a romance, and that they didn't gave to Shirlulu half of the Kalulu stuff is blablant. Not hard to see which pairing shines more and more through recent release.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Sky : I avoid to use a wording more strong than "thing" it seems everything which is backing up kallen x lelouch romance too strongly is an insult to others pairings.
But yeah, it seems she KNEW it.

Indeed. The "even IF it was a lie" makes things clear. Especially with how the sentence ends, "you KNEW that didn't you?"
If+knew in the same sentence, hmm, fishy.

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Without all of this, the simple fact they killed CluClu as a romance, and that they didn't gave to Shirlulu half of the Kalulu stuff is blablant. Not hard to see which pairing shines more and more through recent release.

Fair enough.

Narona: No one said you are stupid. And in fact, as you can see, both me and Loli right now, are not into the sarcastic jokes, we make points and we back them up. Feel free to do so, if you want to say that Kalulu is not plausible.
Saying that we accuse you for something, does not help at all. Back-up constructive discussion on the other hand, does. So by all means, say your opinion.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Narona: No one said you are stupid. And in fact, as you can see, both me and Loli right now, are not into the sarcastic jokes, we make points and we back them up. Feel free to do so, if you want to say that Kalulu is not plausible.
Saying that we accuse you for something, does not help at all. Back-up constructive discussion on the other hand, does. So by all means, say your opinion.

I edited my post even before reading you, I just hope I will not get sarcastic comments about that

Anyway, you know what I am talking about, I told you what happened to me

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Indeed. The "even IF it was a lie" makes things clear. Especially with how the sentence ends, "you KNEW that didn't you?"
If+knew in the same sentence, hmm, fishy.



Fair enough.

Narona: No one said you are stupid. And in fact, as you can see, both me and Loli right now, are not into the sarcastic jokes, we make points and we back them up. Feel free to do so, if you want to say that Kalulu is not plausible.
Saying that we accuse you for something, does not help at all. Back-up constructive discussion on the other hand, does. So by all means, say your opinion.

Oh very good point, even Kallen used the world knew in her own sentence.
(But she is delusional, isn't she ? )

And I agree for the rest too. Now about Aishiteru, we already get a lot of debates about that, so I don't think it cames only from kalulu fans. but well, it's like those others things; before someone shown the mutual kiss scan, people simply didn't want to believe it (before to deny it even with the scan -_-) because it came from kalulu fans.

BTW even Kanalelou singled Kallen's poem in her blog. Does someone knows if she is a Kalulu fan ? (More of a kanalulu fan it seems...)

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Narona

I edited my post even before reading you, I just hope I will not get sarcastic comments about that

Anyway, you know what I am talking about, I told you what happened to me

Fair enough. But this is fiction, plot devices and stuff. Besides Kallen, lived through those moments and she interpreted them in the right way, when she had ALL of the material {see ZR} in her head.

eta: Coffee-woman-Loli:: True. And the cut-gumline, makes things more fishy. I am just gonna leave it like this, cause i do not like to speculate about things that i am not sure what they were about, but it is certainly something to go "hmm."

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

BTW even Kanalelou singled Kallen's poem in her blog. Does someone knows if she is a Kalulu fan ? (More of a kanalulu fan it seems...)

Lelouch-con in public, secretly a kalulu fan.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Fair enough. But this is fiction, plot devices and stuff. Besides Kallen, lived through those moments and she interpreted them in the right way, when she had ALL of the material {see ZR} in her head.

Well, I am not sure that every stories with that kind of ending work that way, but I don't know what to say. I just said what I wanted to say.

But now that you replied and saw it (you two) I deleted my message, I'm shy about that part of my life :shy:

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Narona

Well, I am not sure that every stories with that kind of ending work that way, but I don't what to say. I just said what I wanted to say.

But now that you replied and saw it (you two) I deleted my message, I'm shy about that part of my life :shy:

Alright, your post, your right. lol

I was just "what?" in the aspect of Kalulu fans being rude lately. I fail to see this honestly. A few pages back, yeah, there were some comments but now, we are just exposing opinions with back up and with also additional back-up form the staff.

And i honestly and i mean honestly, for the life of me i can't get how people can say that Kalulu is still friendship-cryptic and upgrade other ships that got a LOT less when it came to the romance department.
I will never get this. Double standards for something, that actually is by its own above something else? Makes no sense to me.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Alright, your post, your right. lol

I was just "what?" in the aspect of Kalulu fans being rude lately. I fail to see this honestly. A few pages back, yeah, there were some comments but now, we are just exposing opinions with back up and with also additional back-up form the staff.

And i honestly and i mean honestly, for the life of me i can't get how people can say that Kalulu is still friendship-cryptic and upgrade other ships that got a LOT less when it came to the romance department.
will never get this. Double standards for something, that actually is by its own above something else? Makes no sense to me.

Well, maybe you fail but I don't like to read "what part of this is so hard to understand", for example, it feels like, if you don't understand then you are an idiot. So that's why I said that. Maybe I am , it was only a half non serious post.

In my case, I never said that kalulu doesn't exist for sure, nor that I said that Lelouch didn't love her that way for sure, i just think that there is also some other possibilities. So I don't really feel concerned since I not denied anything minus the "it's the truth / it's canon" part.

[Lolipopo]

About Kallen's last line of the poem, here is a continuation on first given By dec4 from someone else from a certain secret board.

One thing of note, the line:
"Lelouch, that parting kiss, even if it was a lie, if you had said, "I love you," I would even follow you to hell. You knew that, didn't you?"

In Japanese focus for a sentence is always about what is last said, not like in English where it is what is said at the start that usually dictates the flow. So in this case, following Japanese, the "even if it was a lie" line is actually inconsequential to the "You knew that, didn't you?" line. She is saying: "You knew that if you had said 'I Love You' I'd have followed you to hell, that is why you said nothing."
The "Even if it was a lie" from my point of view, is actually there to reinforce just how paramount her love for him was.

By Kosev.

Frost : This explain that xD

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

By Kosev.

You will hate me for that (joke ), but I did read the secret board too very often, and Kosev doesn't bug me as a neutral member. Sorry to be like that.

Originally Posted by incorrupts

[B][FONT="Tahoma"]
But my point is, that i generally {not only about Kalulu} dislike seeing posts, that downgrade a ship when this is not supported within the show. And let us leave, the official material in the corner for a while. Strictly, within the show::

Within the show (as a whole, not only r2), I personnaly see a lot of one side of kalulu. Same as shirlulu (maybe even more in shirlulu case). I thought Cluclu was different and that the two persons were just in denial, but I was wrong, and I have no problem to admit it. In fact, it was just a lot of respect because she was seen as an equal by Lelouch.

KallenxLelouch got the most scenes in R2. Most of them, had that romance-tease in the air. ShirleyxLelouch got less scenes and CCxL even more less. <--i am referring to everything concerning romance about them as well.

I replied above.

How do people, make it seem like that Kalulu is friendship and the rest of the ships definitely hold the upper hand? I mean, how can this be?
It is another thing to say, i dislike this pairing because i dislike it, and this is perfectly normal, and a whole other trying to downgrade a ship, pointing out half-truths and stuff.
Preference = one thing.
Being in denial about something = another.

I don't know what was exactly said elsewhere but here I didn't see SO much people claiming that fore sure. There is a difference between people saying that it was friendship for sure, and people who think it could be that, but that it could also be the opposite.