2009-03-11, 00:08 | Link #1142 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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I feel the exact opposite, but I never liked UBW as much.
Felt it was too much like the Fate route... and that a lot of the content could have been included in the Fate route without too much hassle. Oh, and it lacked Kotomine, who is easily my favorite character. |
2009-03-11, 00:57 | Link #1144 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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UBW was a great route, but I kept hearing so many epic things about it that I expected it to be better than it was... I guess? And yeah, Lancer is awesome. But I think Kotomine is more awesome, so... I think I liked HF more than any other route perhaps because it was filled with such ridiculously out-of-left-field plot twists and creepy, darker themes and imagery. And the entire final day and ending. F/SN, as a whole, gets a 9/10 from me, though. All the routes were great in their own way. Now on to Tsukihime... |
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2009-03-11, 02:22 | Link #1145 |
バルサミコス
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Well the thing about UBW is it tells Shirou's story. This is the protagonists story, what happens (possibly) to him, how he deals with it and most importantly how he confronts the reality of what his way of life is and what it entails. It has a number of things that Fate doesn't even touch on. In Fate you learn who Saber is and Saber's past, but it's just basic stuff.
Heavens Feel is looked down on a lot because of that out-in-left-field type of writing and story development that nobody saw coming. There are a number of plot holes that aren't explained or even attempted to be explained and just exist for the convenience of the story. With more ero scenes than the rest of the game combined as well, it just seems unnecessary. Finally, Heavens Feel doesn't even end in a true 'happy ending'. Spoiler for spoiler:
I will say that Kotomine is one of the more badass villains I've come across in a story. For the most part, I don't even label him as a villain or as an antagonist. Sure he's evil in the Fate route but other than that, he does his job as overseer to the Grail War properly, answers questions, looks into things concerning the war, etc etc. He even makes sure to secure the vessel for the Holy Grail to ensure the creation of the Holy Grail properly, it's not his fault that the Grail turned out to be a (mostly) innocent person, he's just doing his job as he should be. I played Tsukihime long before I got F/SN...I have to say the story in F/SN is much more interesting than Tsukihime. Shiki is kinda boring compared to Shirou. Akiha is very much like Rin (without the failures) and much much love to Ciel-senpai. Favorite ending has to be Ciel's good ending. |
2009-03-11, 08:19 | Link #1146 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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Kotomine is the epitome of evil,
Spoiler for fate/zero spoilers:
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2009-03-11, 12:56 | Link #1147 | ||||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Especially since Shirou porking her every night is probably just making the shadow WORSE... Quote:
Isn't this a positive thing? The game seems to present it as such, especially if you listen to what Taiga and Ilya are saying in the Final Dojo/Director's Commentary thing. At least Shirou's alive, well, and happy, and saved pretty much everyone. Quote:
Dammit Nasu. And this is what makes him awesome. SO awesome. Last edited by Tyabann; 2009-03-11 at 13:44. |
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2009-03-11, 17:37 | Link #1149 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Kotomine is the type of guy who is usually among my top target list in various action games et al that I've played, sociopaths are just not my cup of tea if you will.
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Ultimately, Shirou being a live person rather than a doll/puppet of sorts is still a better outcome, and being able to fully develop his talent and be happy rather than just living an everyday existence would make him more well-rounded as a person IMHO. Besides that, broken yanderes are absolutely not my thing whatsoever. |
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2009-03-11, 18:16 | Link #1150 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
Also also, Heaven's Feel is the only route where anything is actually SOLVED... even though the grail is destroyed in Fate and UBW, the Great Holy Grail is not... and so the Grail Wars will continue in Fuyuki until the day Avenger is finally released. In this sense, Shirou finally accomplishes what his father ACTUALLY wanted... to destroy the grail and live peacefully with his family. Quote:
And he's a sarcastic douche. Which makes him amusing. |
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2009-03-11, 19:01 | Link #1151 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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Thats not quite true, in HF shirou changes, his ideals of saving everyone and abandons the road of hero, which in the beginning of the scenario which was left by his father. In UBW, he still chooses to follow the path that Archer takes, but Rin is entrusted by archer/future shirou to mold shirou into someone who can accept not saving everybody, and have fulfillment in his life with rin.
On kotomine, still his life is just pure irony, every turn its like a slap in the face and pretty much its like his life is being mocked by god. But also feel like Kitsurugi suffers a shit ton to in this damn series, I mean really he gets beat down again and again never being able to really love his wife and daughter knowing their fates, his life was probably the most tragic out of all the characters. Though archer is a close third to kotomine. |
2009-03-11, 21:47 | Link #1152 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
Spoiler for Fate/Zero:
Yeah, Kiritsugu's life sucks too. So does Shirou's, just, it's a lot more subtle about his life suckage. |
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2009-03-11, 23:16 | Link #1153 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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Kiritsugu was a shitty dad in the sense of a magus because he didn't want shirou to learn magic, but in a sense by not teaching shirou about his lifestyle he pushed the facade that he was a hero in shirou's eyes even though he blantantly denies this. The dream that shirou took from kiritsugu was that he wanted to be able to save everybody, much like his father had saved him. And so that is actually the legacy left behind. |
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2009-03-11, 23:35 | Link #1154 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Baka-Tsuki sucks for translating things quickly though. Sadly. Quote:
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2009-03-12, 00:21 | Link #1155 |
バルサミコス
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Well, although he didn't mean for Shirou to take it as such, that is what Shirou saw. Shirou survived the great fire where nobody else did. Because he was the sole survivor, he doesn't deserve to live happily because so many others died where he lived. He was saved by Kiritsugu, who in turn was saved by Shirou. Kiritsugu in his mind saw the destruction of the city as his fault and the deaths of all the people as his doing. The fact that Shirou survived meant something to Kiritsugu and saved him from the grief he felt.
Shirou denied himself his own existence because of surviving the fire and looked up to Kiritsugu as a hero, a model to live by, someone who saves others when salvation is impossible. Because of this, Shirou decides to become a hero, someone who saves others at the expense of ones own self, if need be. Kiritsugu's dying message to be a hero in his place became a curse on Shirou. His role model placed all responsibility for achieving his dream of being a hero, of saving people against the impossible, upon Shirou. Shirou, living a self-denied existence takes the dream and chooses to live his life on this ideal, to become a hero, if he can make Kiritsugu's dream a reality. Of course, Kiritsugu could never have intended for Shirou to live his life as such. It was a selfish wish of Kiritsugu's, to die knowing his adopted son, Shirou, believed in his dream as he did. He didn't plan for Shirou to adopt his entire life around that dream. Again, Shirou lived his entire life this way. He knew no other way of living, it is what pushed him through life day after day. He studied magic although he risked his life every time during his training. He never saw learning magic as fun, only that if he knew magic, he could one day use his abilities to save someone else. He couldn't cry at Kiritsugu's funeral because Kiritsugu's life and ideal were now a part of Shirou and his life itself. This is probably the biggest reason why I cannot accept the Heavens Feel route. Shirou throws all this away for Sakura. He put his life on the line every night with magic to save others, he denied himself fun and enjoyment in life because he didn't deserve such a thing, he would not allow himself to cry for Kiritsugu because of this ideal. There is no way after living his entire life for 10-years that way could he just throw it all away for the sake of one person. I can see him saying he will save Sakura if she is the only one in danger, but trading the life of the entire city for Sakura's salvation I cannot believe. Spoiler:
Anyway, the ero scenes of HF really distracted from the plot. To me it feels like these have little to no meaning in the story besides giving Sakura an ero scene. There was meaning to Saber and Rin's but it was clear really fast that Sakura wasn't really getting better despite what she told Shirou at first and afterwards, the rest of the ero scenes were unnecessary. Shirou living on as a doll...not too much about dolls is really explained in Kara no Kyoukai actually. Not that it really matters, however. It just means that Shirou died and his soul was put into a doll so he could still live. Sure living an everyday life may be happier for him, but that required his entire personality to be re-written since he denies himself happiness because of the fire. In Fate, Shirou still has the fire haunting him and he is probably going to live a miserable life because he has no support and his one love, Saber, left him so she could go die. In UBW, his future is entrusted to Rin to find a way for Shirou to live a normal life while accepting the past. In HF, wtf happened in the past? lolwut? While Kiritsugu and Archer both lived rather sad lives, I'd say the most unfortunate would be Avenger. If you play through Fate/Hollow, you'll learn the circumstances of Avenger. He's actually a really nice guy. |
2009-03-12, 00:35 | Link #1156 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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I've had this argument before, and I don't want to get into it because it just starts getting into arguments of idealism vs cynicism and philosophical garbage.
I will say that Nasu clearly intended HF to be the True Ending of F/SN, and that his eventual fate in HF is much, much healthier for Shirou. Shirou loves Sakura deeply and THAT's why he's able to throw away everything for her. The route belabors on this point constantly. Man, I REALLY don't want to argue about this. |
2009-03-12, 10:23 | Link #1157 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Where Rei Ayanami is...or prolly dreaming.
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So I found the realta nua hidden end, can someone please translate? There's a rough translation in the link, but I don't really know if its right.
Spoiler for Realta Nua Hidden Ending:
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2009-03-12, 21:56 | Link #1159 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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2009-03-12, 22:03 | Link #1160 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
Basically, Taiga states that Fate and UBW raise the question of how Shirou should live, and HF presents an answer. Also that Fate and UBW are the "front side" of F/SN, and that HF is the hidden "back side". Think that suggests True Ending to me. After all, again, you unlock HF last for a reason, right? And HF really isn't about Sakura. Also I really don't like her that much. Saber is superior. <3 |
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fate/stay night, visual novel |
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