Code Geass R2 - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Dains11

Firstly: Rolo's Geass was the most overpowered thing in the show. In the huge battle a couple of episodes ago LL had him looking for Nunally, but with his multiple second time stopping he could have killed every single Knightmare by just continuously freezing time.

What? Jeremiah is more overpowered than that.

Originally Posted by blackrider76

Can they, truly? I myself don't see any change from S1; they're still relying on Zero's orders, relying on his strategies, and in every pinch nothing less than Zero's strategies get them out. Toudou himself admitted at one point when his two subordinates were suspicious of Zero that they needed Zero; I just don't see the major change that you see; perhaps they've gotten better, but not enough to fight against Brittannia.

Well, perhaps we just agree to disagree here then. It is just going in circles on this point after all.

Oh, I found it believable, read my first post in this topic. I just thought their actions of disposing Zero far too hasty and irresponsible.

Well again, I have to disagree. When I put myself in that situation, there is just too much to doubt and too many people bringing it up. Remember, Cornelia was trapped there (which Deithard knows now) so he knows that she wouldn't have time to plan anything to trick them and she was confirming everything Schneizel was saying and even gave her own information. And again, they had Asahina's testimony. That alone they know they can trust.

But as we know, Jeremiah didn't join under the influence of Geass; Guilford did, but simply resorting to magical powers as an explanation instead of taking into account unknown circumstances isn't the most rational thing to do when deciding whether or not to commit mutiny against a brilliant leader.

We know why Jeremiah joined. The characters don't. And it does give a reason why to sell out a brilliant leader. Especially because of the SAZ and the JLF members. Those two alone are enough to make them betray Lelouch. Remember, Ougi already suspected Lelouch of doing that to the JLF anyway. Toudou didn't because he wasn't there. That would definitely not make him happy since they were his closest comrades.

Well, I wasn't expecting details, just something like "Actually, we ourselves have been conducting research into Geass; you all may recall a little expedition Zero took a short while ago to attack one our bases? He was trying to annihilate our research facility, that's why he attacked civilians." or something like that. I guess explaining the details of geass was a bit misleading in my statement.

I agree that it would have been helpful, but still, time constraints can rush things a lot. Look at what has happened the last five or so episodes. That should be proof enough right there.

I think you're misinterpreting my feelings; probably because we diverged so far from the original point. I found this situation reasonable, I was commenting that the OotBK made a very irresponsible and hasty move, though it did not surprise me when this debate started. That's why the issue with the Black Rebellion was even brought up.

Well then I understand I just disagree with the irresponsibility part. So I guess that is it then?

[blackrider76]

Yeah, and it seems we aren't convincing each other one way or another on that. And the deciding point is whether or not they've really improved to the point where they can handle themselves, allowing them to dispose of Zero so easily, which we'll see in the next episodes soon it seems.

[manga852]

personally I dont mind that OoBK betrayed Zero its how the did it. OoBK is no longer a terrorrist group or even a revalutionary army. they are part of a large army protecting a large alliance of nations now and they let Schneizel reduce them back to being terrorist cells after Zero built them up into a cohesive army.

As far as their dependency goes just look at ep.7 if zero hadn't come back in the end all their asses would be dead this Mofo shows up and directs them as he usually does and the result is the wipe out an entire navy fleet.

When he is in Ashford every significant action they take is already planned by lulu this should be obvious considering he's a control freak. OoBK is nothing without zero they before him they could even wage a decent gorilla war as terrorists. but the second he shows up they're kicking Brittania's asses.

[texansz28]

just watched the episode. awesome. that was truly the best death for rolo. the black knights are complete and utter retards. from what i saw in the preview is the britannians are going to retake japan again. kallen is going to leave the black knights, lakshata too most likely. they'll be lucky if jeremiah doesnt go berserk on them after he figures out that they tried to kill his "prince"
pretty smart on lulus part telling kallen that shes a pawn then wispering to live on so she wont die with him. but for her to not figure out that he was lying his ass off about saying she was his best pawn until he says live on is pretty dumb on her part. this episode also shows that gino is about to bail on brittannia. he doesnt like the fact about fleia being used at all. another week til we see how code geass will end. the next episode will play out how the rest will go.

[Orga777]

Ooy... It is like people don't read through debates....
The Black Knights were not stupid for what they did... It was entirely justified and understandable from their view. They didn't do anything wrong.

[Kakisho]

Ok instead of joining in on the conversation, i'm just gonna blindly give my opinion on some things.
Was Rolo in denial towards the end? When Lelouch told him that he was being used, he looked very surprised and saddened. Or did he truely think his brother was just lieing?

At the warehouse 4 scene, couldn't Zero had talked his way out? I mean, seeing he was so smart, he could'ved reworded it and got the OootBK to fire on Shneizal (spelling).

C.C. is still in the ship..............What's gonna happen to her? I miss the old C.C. : (.

Ummm, New super pumped Gurren, All of the Knights, Ragnarok, the OotBK's, The Brittian Empire, practically NO ONE is on lelouch's side now. And just a couple of episodes before this happened, he joined EVERYONE who wasn't part of the Brittian Empire with the Black Knights so all of those countries are against him.

My prediction:

Anya is gonna be revealed soon for what's happening to her with her connection to Geass.
C.C. is somehow going to come back into the show somehow...
Suzaku and Lelouch will work together to bring Brittania down.


Touching episode btw.
EDIT:

Originally Posted by texansz28

pretty smart on lulus part telling kallen that shes a pawn then wispering to live on so she wont die with him. but for her to not figure out that he was lying his ass off about saying she was his best pawn until he says live on is pretty dumb on her part.

Wait....didn't she simply give up hope in lelouch so she left? Lelouch didn't geass her to live on (if that's what you're saying) firstly becuase eye-contact = needed + unless Jerry anti-geassed her, she has been already geassed (episode 2/3?).

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Kakisho

At the warehouse 4 scene, couldn't Zero had talked his way out? I mean, seeing he was so smart, he could'ved reworded it and got the OootBK to fire on Shneizal (spelling).

No way. Schneizel had them eating out of his hand. They'd have never bought it. Besides, Kallen would have let herself be killed with him, and Lelouch didn't have much of a reason anway.

Originally Posted by Kakisho

C.C. is still in the ship..............What's gonna happen to her? I miss the old C.C. : (.

Kallen's there to keep the Black Knights in check. They may not trust her after she tried to protect Lelouch, but they'll at least back off if she's forceful enough.

Originally Posted by Kakisho

Ummm, New super pumped Gurren, All of the Knights, Ragnarok, the OotBK's, The Brittian Empire, practically NO ONE is on lelouch's side now. And just a couple of episodes before this happened, he joined EVERYONE who wasn't part of the Brittian Empire with the Black Knights so all of those countries are against him.

That'll change quick enough.

Originally Posted by Kakisho

Wait....didn't she simply give up hope in lelouch so she left? Lelouch didn't geass her to live on (if that's what you're saying) firstly becuase eye-contact = needed + unless Jerry anti-geassed her, she has been already geassed (episode 2/3?).

Lelouch's words hurt her, but then he whispered for her to live on and she heard it. It's the thing that should convince her to leave them.

[rpgman1]

Originally Posted by Kakisho

Ok instead of joining in on the conversation, i'm just gonna blindly give my opinion on some things.
Was Rolo in denial towards the end? When Lelouch told him that he was being used, he looked very surprised and saddened. Or did he truely think his brother was just lieing?

At the warehouse 4 scene, couldn't Zero had talked his way out? I mean, seeing he was so smart, he could'ved reworded it and got the OootBK to fire on Shneizal (spelling).

C.C. is still in the ship..............What's gonna happen to her? I miss the old C.C. : (.

Ummm, New super pumped Gurren, All of the Knights, Ragnarok, the OotBK's, The Brittian Empire, practically NO ONE is on lelouch's side now. And just a couple of episodes before this happened, he joined EVERYONE who wasn't part of the Brittian Empire with the Black Knights so all of those countries are against him.

My prediction:

Anya is gonna be revealed soon for what's happening to her with her connection to Geass.
C.C. is somehow going to come back into the show somehow...
Suzaku and Lelouch will work together to bring Brittania down.


Touching episode btw.

No use getting information on C.C. anyway due to having her memories gone. Lelouch. I wouldn't mind if he did get the oddest allies like Anya and her Mordred and Gino and his Tristan somehow. Kallen and her Guren, Orange and his Siegfried, Lakshata, and Suzaku and his Lancelot could take on Britannia with that small but powerful group.

[texansz28]

i didnt say that kakisho. i know he didnt geass her. im saying that she is dumb because of her apparent lack of understanding that lulu didnt want her to die there with him. because if he told her his true feelings she would have gotten shot with him. he was planning on dying right then and there, but rolo intervened.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Ooy... It is like people don't read through debates....
The Black Knights were not stupid for what they did... It was entirely justified and understandable from their view. They didn't do anything wrong.

Except for the part where they made a peace pact with Britannia for Japan. That was stupid and will cost them dearly. BK is already weak without Zero, but take away India and China and they would have even less than Lulu.

At least Lulu still has his Geass. BK is screwed once China and India abandon them.

[LordLabyrinth]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Except for the part where they made a peace pact with Britannia for Japan. That was stupid and will cost them dearly. BK is already weak without Zero, but take away India and China and they would have even less than Lulu.

At least Lulu still has his Geass. BK is screwed once China and India abandon them.

Yeah, I'm a little confused about that. I remember few episodes back when they were declaring who is who and I remember Zero being the CEO and Xingke being the Commander-in-Chief. If the Black Knights who were declared the official military force for the UN betrays Zero their CEO, how the hell is the rest of the UN going to respond? I mean, wasn't their army integrated into the Black Knights? Even if the UN isn't happy that the Black Knights tried to give their CEO to the Britannians, can they really do anything without their army? Or are they going to revive their own individual armies again? Either way, UN will end up losing their unity since Black Knights acted by themselves without consulting the UN.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by LordLabyrinth

Yeah, I'm a little confused about that. I remember few episodes back when they were declaring who is who and I remember Zero being the CEO and Xingke being the Commander-in-Chief. If the Black Knights who were declared the official military force for the UN betrays Zero their CEO, how the hell is the rest of the UN going to respond? I mean, wasn't their army integrated into the Black Knights? Even if the UN isn't happy that the Black Knights tried to give their CEO to the Britannians, can they really do anything without their army? Or are they going to revive their own individual armies again? Either way, UN will end up losing their unity since Black Knights acted by themselves without consulting the UN.

Xingke outranks them all, and has his own army offshore. Worst case, they get belligerent after getting Japan back and the UFN loses a single ship and the Knightmares onboard.

[LordLabyrinth]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Xingke outranks them all, and has his own army offshore. Worst case, they get belligerent after getting Japan back and the UFN loses a single ship and the Knightmares onboard.

So that means the Black Knights in Japan will separate themselves from the UN while the rest of the UN army will still be known as the Black Knights?

Also if the Japanese Black Knights leave the UN after the war, doesn't have make them really cheap bastards? If you look at it from the Chinese point of view, the Black Knights had nowhere to go, so China gave them refuge. Because of this and other events, China gets attacked by the Britannia. China, Japan and EU join forces to create the UN. But if Japan leaves the UN after one major battle where they betray the CEO of UN, make a private dealings with the Britannia, then leave the UN, wouldn't the rest of the UN be really, really pissed? Xingke would be thinking, "What the hell? China wasn't even at war with the empire until they helped Japan and now Japan backs out on them after getting what they want?"

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by LordLabyrinth

So that means the Black Knights in Japan will separate themselves from the UN while the rest of the UN army will still be known as the Black Knights?

Also if the Japanese Black Knights leave the UN after the war, doesn't have make them really cheap bastards? If you look at it from the Chinese point of view, the Black Knights had nowhere to go, so China gave them refuge. Because of this and other events, China gets attacked by the Britannia. China, Japan and EU join forces to create the UN. But if Japan leaves the UN after one major battle where they betray the CEO of UN, make a private dealings with the Britannia, then leave the UN, wouldn't the rest of the UN be really, really pissed? Xingke would be thinking, "What the hell? China wasn't even at war with the empire until they helped Japan and now Japan backs out on them after getting what they want?"

I imagine they would be quite pissed. I hope the Black Knights are not so fickle as to leave the UFN as soon as they get what they want, but they might be driven to it depending on how the UFN reacts to their unilateral decision. They had good reason to betray Zero, but those less invested might not be so pleased.

[LordLabyrinth]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I imagine they would be quite pissed. I hope the Black Knights are not so fickle as to leave the UFN as soon as they get what they want, but they might be driven to it depending on how the UFN reacts to their unilateral decision. They had good reason to betray Zero, but those less invested might not be so pleased.

Can you imagine the call Xingke gets in the middle of the night?

"Yes, Xingke speaking... yes... they wha?! They tried to kill Zero? And wha...? They made a deal with Schneizel? What the f...! And now they want out?"

*Xingke gets heart attack*

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by texansz28

i didnt say that kakisho. i know he didnt geass her. im saying that she is dumb because of her apparent lack of understanding that lulu didnt want her to die there with him. because if he told her his true feelings she would have gotten shot with him. he was planning on dying right then and there, but rolo intervened.

well lulu was doing his best to prevent her from understanding him
if she had figured out that it was a lie right when he told it then what would have been the point
so instead he just put on his best evil basterd mask and acted like a total ass
he didnt do it for fun or in an attempet to go down singing
he did his best to say just the right thing at just the right moment (right after she asked him what she means to him) which hit just the right spot for massive damage
the fact that she asked him what she means to him let him know that she was still unsure of his feelings about her and that lying about it was the only thing that would make her leave (thus saving her life)
the guy is an world class expert at lying after all and kallen isnt that hard to read
and she figured out he was lying (and why) the second he dropped the act
she was turning around when the shinkiro landed

[manga852]

I don't if they're or what they'll do but I know they have been thinking about what they would do after they took japan back which says to me that they are small minded to think that taking japan would actually be the end of their conflict with brittania it also would suggest that they are as selfish as they accuse zero of being.

fortunately they wont last long without zero, probably should of thought that one through.
hopefully they get executed next episode be funny to see tamaki begin zero to save him again.

[Slighted]

I definitely agree with the sentiment that the OotBK betrayed LL a little too hastily. I'm kinda hoping they'll be crawling back to him before the season is over - if not, I hope all of them except Kallen and Lakshata are killed in some way.

Agh! There are no clues to the next episode's plot in the next episode preview other than Gino held at spear point for some reason and supposedly the subjugation of the UFN/OotBK.

EDIT: And the the eff is the 'Ragnarok Connection'? I'm sure it's related to finding/destroying specific/all geass users in a certain radius.

[mechalord]

I watched the episode twice. Quick note... SOMEONE TIPPED OFF ROLLO!!!

Someone at the meeting with Schneizel tipped off Rollo. They were pretty quick to act. And would probably not have told Rollo about what they were going to do. Viletta knows what's up.

My guess is that Diethard could have tipped him off. Diethard has likely known Zero is Lelouch, for ages now. He is a "whatever it takes" kind of guy. Remember when he was pushing Zero to marry Tianzi. He couldn't have gone against the group without endangering himself. And he's the type of guy who would not have objected to a lot of the terrible things Zero ordered the Order to do.

Diethard has Rollo on speed dial. He did work with Sayoko.


Diethard may still be loyal. . .

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by manga852

I don't if they're or what they'll do but I know they have been thinking about what they would do after they took japan back which says to me that they are small minded to think that taking japan would actually be the end of their conflict with brittania it also would suggest that they are as selfish as they accuse zero of being.

fortunately they wont last long without zero, probably should of thought that one through.
hopefully they get executed next episode be funny to see tamaki begin zero to save him again.

There is a small chance Villetta would be horrified at what a stupid thing Ougi has done, and tell him to escape the country before Britannia crushes them. After all, she can't be ignorant of what Britannia is planning; make a deal so China and India will cut BK off, then flatten them like pancakes when the BK realized they can't escape to China anymore.