2010-12-16, 18:11 | Link #3721 | |
Anime Cynic
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
Age: 35
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I've given myself all sorts of answers, such as the artistic detail put into the anime, or the tight cast, or the pacing in the first novel, or the sudden realization that this was a science fiction anime instead of a high school comedy, or even that it's the only anime that I've followed while it was in progress, rather than watching the whole thing after the airing concluded. I've given myself all sorts of counter-arguments, too. The closed time loops are ridiculous. There's enough blatant, gratuitous fanservice to tick me off. Haruhi is freaking crazy. No one wants to see a plot resolved with a homework session (an example of the "mundane" that I'm talking about). There are plenty of times when I've told my computer "No, that's...that's stupid." in the middle of an episode. Watching the anime, especially the first time around, did impress me. Watching the second season and reading a couple of the novels did not. I can't explain my obsession (and consequently, I can't explain anyone else's either), so I feel quite a bit of dissonance that I have to justify with posts like the one above.
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2010-12-16, 19:57 | Link #3722 | |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: dnal tuo dnif ot gniyrt sdnoces evif detsaw uoy
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Spoiler for Spoiler:
I'm not even sure if even I would read a whole thread but I'm generally known as lazy . |
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2010-12-16, 20:08 | Link #3723 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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...Where?
If you think the fanservice in Haruhi is blatant and gratuitous you haven't seen any anime from the past three years. Actually, if you haven't noticed, one of the repeating themes, the formula if you will, is extraordinary problems being resolved by effectively mundane solutions. |
2010-12-16, 22:38 | Link #3724 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I'd have loved it if Tanigawa and Kyoto had portayed the cosrape as something that looked like fanservice on the surface, but was quite obviously horrifying and vicious. It wouldn't be hard. Darker background music, voice acting that sounds scared instead of high pitched (and cutesy), and somber facial expressions instead of bashful ones would be enough to transform those scenes from something amusing to something disturbing. Gunslinger Girls did something thematically similar with the concept of preadolescent girls-with-guns. The lives of the titular cyborgs are basically crap, with every cutesy or fanservicey moment being undercut with the reminder that these girls are armed killers who don't understand the reality of their actions. I would have loved to see the cosrape played out as fan disservice like that, instead of the genuine crap that's supposed to be arousing and funny. On a completely unrelated note, I hated the fact that "Someday in the Rain" focused so much Mikuru being tortured. I don't like those scenes period, and I especially having roughly a third of an episode get consumed with cosrape. Just sayin'.
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2010-12-16, 22:53 | Link #3725 | ||
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
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Are you just overly critical? If so, I can't help you. You'll be doomed to a life of dissatisfaction, but at least if you keep to it, you're bound to find accomplishment (that you'll needlessly nitpick). ^_^ Are you buying the hater hype? There are plenty of people out there who actively rail against this series simply because people enjoy it. A number frequented this very forum, so you've no doubt heard their complaints, a number of which you share. Don't give a crap what they think. If you like it, you like it. Don't question it. There's too little good media out there as it is, and people care far too much about being thought of a certain way if they like certain things (says the guy with a Panty & Stocking avatar). Quote:
Far too much concern is shown for endings anyway. With Haruhi, at least for me, it's not the stories per se, or even the characters (although a few, like Tsuruya and Yuki, are effectively unique in the genre), it's the world in general, and that is expanded far more by the journey than by the destination. It's so open-ended and rich with possibility, that the possibilities are nearly limitless.
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2010-12-17, 04:04 | Link #3726 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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You're empathizing with Mikuru entirely too much, if you ask me. |
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2010-12-17, 12:59 | Link #3727 | |||||||||
Anime Cynic
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
Age: 35
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Lots of people to respond to here. That'll teach me for being controversial and then leaving the house.
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Spoiler for eh, just in case:
As for the novels and how they tie into each other, I have little doubt that Tanigawa's ideas expanded past his first book, at least to some degree. I understand that the baseball story was actually published before the first novel, so...sure, he had some ideas. But at the same time, it's very easy to say, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Kyon was the one who drew those lines?" It's harder to turn ideas like that into real stories with substance. Furthermore, it doesn't hurt to have Haruhi wonder if she's met Kyon, so there's no risk and all kinds of reward for putting that line in. Quote:
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I can almost certainly assure you that I'm not. I do feel a good bit of backlash against things that are popular that shouldn't be (Twilight, for example), but I can't stand people who hate something just to hate it. But, on the flip side, I also can't stand people who like something because everyone else does, either. And I think it's because of that that I try to distance myself from the blind praise that things like this so often get. Quote:
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In the same way, I think (or rather, I know) the thing that keeps me coming back to this series is the characters. It doesn't hurt one bit that the animation studio put a good deal of effort into the CGI and music for the episodes, either. Consider The Day of Sagittarius. In the book, it's really nothing special at all. It's a plot device to show that Yuki can be interested in stuff. But in the anime, there are huge spaceship battles and lasers and explosions and symphonies. There's a similar disconnect between Live A Live. In the book, it's like, "Yeah, okay, Haruhi's singing for some band...I guess she's not a COMPLETE jerk." In the anime, it's one of the highlights of the entire series. That's probably why I've never been impressed with the books; they just lack the immersion factor that the anime has. Therefore, it only makes sense that my criticism of the series gets heavier the further in I get, and that's why I think Tanigawa is an overrated author who got lucky with his first book and has been using the momentum to carry him ever since.
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Last edited by Gamer_2k4; 2010-12-17 at 15:39. |
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2010-12-17, 13:36 | Link #3728 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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2010-12-17, 14:02 | Link #3729 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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I'm reminded of this kind of take to seriously attitude being applied by some fanfic writers for Love Hina. The slapstick violence directed at Keitaro where he's punted through a ceiling is suddenlly no longer harmless and funny, but very traumatic and serious buisness now.
I'm kinda getting the same vibe here. Quote:
If Haruhi's notably blatant/gratuitous, how exactly do we describe those more excessive fan service shows? Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2010-12-17 at 14:17. |
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2010-12-17, 14:27 | Link #3730 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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If you were to complain about the excessive service shots in Endless Eight, sure, I could understand. Not that those are anything near the level that other shows have done... |
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2010-12-17, 15:00 | Link #3731 | |||
Anime Cynic
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
Age: 35
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Besides, what's more blatant then a character literally saying, "Mikuru, you're going to wear this bunny girl costume because that will attract attention."? Quote:
I thought about including an example from that as well, and, in retrospect, I probably should've. After all, that's essentially saying, "Yes, we know we're dragging this out way too long, so here's something to keep you interested in the meantime." It shouldn't have to come to that.
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2010-12-17, 16:17 | Link #3733 |
Haruhi's Minion
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
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I think the few fanservice shots make sense in terms of the story. When I watched the show with freinds, they sometimes wondered why Kyon still stays with Haruhi and doesn't run away. The fanservice remind the viewer that Haruhi is a very attractive girl, so that we are reminded of Kyon's first intention why he started taliking to Haruhi. It's the same with Mikuru, why is Kyon so nice too her and? Becasue she's such a cute girl and she uses this power (or her superiors). I haven't read the books after Disappearance, so I don't know the future developments, but for me the few fanservice shots make sense even storywise. Don't forget that we are told the story by Kyon, a guy^^. Of course they could sometimes use less fanservice but they could use much more if this would be the mayor selling point of the show.
Regarding the "cosrape" scenes I also think that they are a little bit disturbing, but they make sense in the story. Haruhi is at the beginning of the series not very good with other people and simply thinks that everybody should be like her. She didn't seem to care if other people see her naked, so she thinks that Mikuru also shouldn't care about this. The viewer gets the idea that Haruhi's cosrapes and similar things are wrong and the stuff she does in Sigh shows her worst side, so these scenes work for me from a comedic standpoint and from a moral standpoint in the story. We should never forget that this is a sci fi school comedy, which works quite well if we consider that the general idea that one of the main characters can change the whole world if she wants to, and I think it's very funny that the solutions are sometimes very mundane. It sometimes more like a parody on normal stories with big and larger than live climaxes. Especially Somewhere in the Rain in chronological order of the anime is such perfect ending for a series that probably wasn't planned to be continued later.
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2010-12-17, 16:23 | Link #3734 | |
Anime Cynic
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
Age: 35
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Well surprise, surprise, this anime is no different. See, anime, or really, any piece of media, is composed of many, many parts. There's the plot, which defines the path that the story will take. There are the characters, who walk along that path. There are dialogue and narration style, which form the interface between the first two elements and the viewer. And finally, there are the visual and aural aspects, which complete the experience for the viewer. Now, I've already said earlier that I don't believe any work is perfect. That means (don't get lost here), that those same works all have at least one shortcoming, and probably many, many more! So what is a viewer to do? Should they refuse contact with any media whatsoever, so that nothing tarnishes the perfection of such a vacuum? Now, as you quite clearly realize, that's a very, VERY valid option, and I understand your incredulity that I haven't taken that route. But suppose, just for a second, that a viewer realized that such imperfections are largely masked by all of the well-done, redeeming qualities of the work. Maybe, just maybe, in such a world, we could still watch and appreciate an anime, even if there were things we disliked about it! Maybe the experience isn't as good as it could have been, but it would still be better than nothing? Wow. What a world that could be.
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Last edited by Gamer_2k4; 2010-12-17 at 16:44. |
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2010-12-17, 17:19 | Link #3735 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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If you like the work in spite of its flaws, why spend all your time talking about said flaws? It makes you seem as though you hate, rather than like, the work in question.
It's fine to say negative things about something you like, but when this is nearly all you say... |
2010-12-18, 03:43 | Link #3736 | ||||
NOM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Outside the Asylum
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TMSIDR here summed up nicely how I personally see it: Quote:
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2010-12-18, 23:37 | Link #3738 | |
Nyahahahaha♥
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Edit: Don't bother asking Hirano about it. She doesn't know anything.
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Last edited by ultimatemegax; 2010-12-19 at 00:39. |
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2010-12-19, 18:01 | Link #3740 | |
NOM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Outside the Asylum
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What I'm confused is that Game_2k4 argued that the fanservice in Haruhi is "blatant". He also argued that the fanserivce is unnecessary. Which is the problem? If it being too "blatant" is the problem, he should probably quit watching anime try to be a little more tolerant. If it being unnecessary is the problem, he should probably see it as not fanservice but just another testament to Haruhi's brattiness/whatever instead.
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Last edited by Eater of All; 2010-12-19 at 18:11. |
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Tags |
shounen, sneaker bunko, seinen, light novels, manga |
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