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battle22 · 2012-05-17, 23:32

I like Umineko more than Higurashi a lot actually. In my opinion Umineko is much better . Of course this is just my opinion!! lol

Drifloon · 2012-05-18, 02:52

I think most people who played the VNs liked Umineko better than Higurashi. Certainly before EP6 or 7 you would find barely anyone who played the Umineko VN and thought Higurashi was better.

Sadly, the answers being revealed seems to have lowered Umineko's popularity quite a lot. It's a shame.

CrimsonMoonMist · 2012-05-18, 08:06

I personally prefer Umineko over Higurashi for its characters,
they just seem more well rounded and natural.
The meta-fictional deconstruction of the mystery genre is very interesting,
but alas, some might say it never quite came full circle in that regard,
which is regretable.

I really enjoy Higurashi mainly for its atmosphere,
the 'secluded little village' has always been my favorite mystery stage.
I also really enjoy the gradually rising horror and paranoia aspect of each EP.
Well, I've only just finished Meakashi, so maybe my opinion will change by the end.

Captain Bluebeard · 2012-05-19, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifloon

I think most people who played the VNs liked Umineko better than Higurashi. Certainly before EP6 or 7 you would find barely anyone who played the Umineko VN and thought Higurashi was better.

Sadly, the answers being revealed seems to have lowered Umineko's popularity quite a lot. It's a shame.

Maybe it was the too roundabout way they were given, or that some people got the complete opposite of what they were expecting. At any rate, Umineko's atmosphere undergoes a full 180 degree turn by EP5 onwards (just like Higurashi's Minagoroshi, I suppose).

I loved both, but I think Umineko was better. His writing has matured very much (maybe it's just all because of Mangagamer's incompetent translation being no match for Witch Hunt), and he has reduced all ridiculousness and fanservice of Higurashi to a minimum. Besides that, Umineko was more complex, it involved a lot of thinking that could actually get you somewhere, whereas Higurashi was more of a horror/fiction and not a mystery.

P.S: Still, Higurashi had THE Ryukishi art.

Metaler · 2012-05-20, 02:27

I always viewed Umineko as not just a deconstruction of the mystery genre, but also of Higurashi as a whole. I mean, what were many of us expecting when Umineko was annouced? A bunch of bizarre murders, yangire girls, a hotblooded protagonist... And when you think about it for a second, EP1 does give us the impression that our expectations were correct, until the Tea Party. Higurashi had its own version of the Tea Party where the characters discuss what happened in the arc and whatnot, as if the were actors at a backstage. The EP1 Tea Party starts out the same way until Beato shows up. And from there, all our expectations regarding When They Cry in its entirety are destroyed with each subsequent scene.

Renall · 2012-05-22, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metaler

I always viewed Umineko as not just a deconstruction of the mystery genre, but also of Higurashi as a whole. I mean, what were many of us expecting when Umineko was annouced? A bunch of bizarre murders, yangire girls, a hotblooded protagonist... And when you think about it for a second, EP1 does give us the impression that our expectations were correct, until the Tea Party. Higurashi had its own version of the Tea Party where the characters discuss what happened in the arc and whatnot, as if the were actors at a backstage. The EP1 Tea Party starts out the same way until Beato shows up. And from there, all our expectations regarding When They Cry in its entirety are destroyed with each subsequent scene.

That's clearly what he was going for in Legend. There are just two problems with it, as I see it:

Not enough actually changed, making it more of a referential joke than an actual dismantling of what he set up before.
The characters were already so much better-written in the first place in Umineko that the comparisons to Higurashi never quite hashed out in the first place. Battler was always a better protagonist, with more depth and appeal.

So you end up in this situation where he's trying not to be like Higurashi, but in a way he is still kind of being like Higurashi, but at the same time he's doing a much better job of it overall in mood, theme, pacing (I know, I know, but...), and character depth (for the most part).

So it's kinda like Higurashi-but-better, then it kinda mutated into something distinct unto itself, yet still very much a Ryukishi work. The question is whether that's something I'm really appreciative of in the end. To be perfectly honest, I kinda hated Higurashi.

Jan-Poo · 2012-05-23, 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

To be perfectly honest, I kinda hated Higurashi.

Wait... what made you start reading the VN and where did your assumption that Ryuukishi was a good author come from if you hated Higurashi?

Renall · 2012-05-23, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Wait... what made you start reading the VN and where did your assumption that Ryuukishi was a good author come from if you hated Higurashi?

A friend telling me it was nothing like Higurashi, mainly. I didn't start reading it until Banquet's translation patch was out, mostly out of reluctance to bother with something from the same author. I really had to be cajoled into it.

And I never really thought he was a good or bad author as such just from Higurashi, I just didn't like Higurashi. It's not exactly a matter of whether it was well written or poorly written... although in hindsight, he's an old dog who learned a few new tricks but didn't forget the less exciting old tricks. Perhaps I should have seen that coming. Still, I had considerably greater faith in him through Alliance than I did before I'd started reading Umineko.

StainGlass · 2012-06-30, 05:12

Finally writing up my overall review. It's shameful but I only just finished the novel recently. Unfortunately most of Chiru lost my interest but I got around to it in the end.

Overall Story

Spoiler:

Characters

Spoiler:

I find Ryukishi to be excellent in creating interesting developed characters for the most part. At times, I'm not sure how good he is at maintaining them, or perhaps it was due to the nature of the story. Towards the end, I felt many of the characters were little more than talking puppets with no real reason to do or say the things they were doing. They seemed driven by the concluding story when I believe the story should always be driven by the characters themselves.

The way some of them were used was a little unusual for me as well. Despite wanting to show another side to Eva-Beatrice, I found her use in the later episodes too unbelievable given her prior roles, I figured she was no more than a symbolic icon of Eva's darker side, so further use was odd. There were many other times I questioned the use of a character in particular situation.

My top 5 favourite characters ended up being:

Rosa -
I think I mentioned before, characters with faults tend to be more interesting to me.

Ange -
Interestingly enough, because I initially did not like Ange at all. Because of the time put into her development I ended up liking and understanding her more as a character. I like her cynicism and wit and her unusual consumption in the 'world of magic' ended up being quite interesting.

Mammon (and the first 4 stakes) -
Minion groups tends to have interesting dynamics but the stakes ended up being the only group I enjoyed. Perhaps they had the most development and individual characterization, based on the seven sins in a good ground for this. Mammon topped my list, helped by the fact she was given the most development time.

Bernkastel -
Yes, in Chiru. After her compete change of character.
I admit at times her attitude and expressions can be way over the top, but she's a ridiculously amusing character, and so, so much like a cat in nature. Her hoard of kitty fiends was also unusually scary and funny at the same time. I really can't imagine Yukari Tamura voicing her in this character change though.

Beatrice -
I'm somewhat reluctant to add her to the list, since there seems to be so many versions of her character. I've added her for her roles in the first 4 episodes.

On the other hand, characters that really pained me throughout the story included Erika, Gaap, Zepar and Furfur & Dlanor. I felt an incredible rush to get through whatever these characters had to say quickly.

Technical Aspects

Spoiler:

What the franchise meant to you

Spoiler:

What could the writer could have done better

Spoiler:

Judoh · 2012-07-10, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

Like really, did the Rudolf baby thing matter too much in the grand scheme of things?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

It didn't. But it was a plot twist he brought up in EP4 to shake things up, and he felt like it should be wrapped up so it didn't distract from what was really important.

Now that you guys mention it. I don't think Battler grew too much from this revelation actually. It could have been used to give Battler some character growth. But instead it basically removes him from the story for part of the episode. He doesn't really learn anything about himself from it. So in that sense, it didn't add anything to Battler's character development. On the other hand it developed Kyrie and Ange, and gave Battler a better idea about the rules of the game.

Also I thought I'd bring the conversation over to here, because I think it's more relevant in the game impressions thread, and this thread needs some love.

Thunder Book · 2012-07-10, 13:37

How does it develop Kyrie? It adds a certain irony to her story, sure, but she doesn't even know about the swap unless you solve the Episode 8 puzzle.

I'm not really seeing how it develops Ange either. I don't even think she ever knows about it.

The thing about Battler and the rules of the game is definitely true though. But again I wonder there could have been a better way for that plot point to work.

Renall · 2012-07-10, 13:57

The whole thing is pretty hamfisted and is one of many dangling plot threads. If I had the time or inclination I'd love to go back through 1-4 and name all the plot threads that were never addressed, but that's too time consuming for me right now.

Thunder Book · 2012-07-10, 14:52

That's my larger issue, I suppose. Rudolf's baby swapping is just one example of such things that were interesting and mysterious at the time, but then don't go anywhere really. The quiz game really started to seem cheap to me, once I realized that, and that it didn't serve much other purpose but to resolve these threads.

My ideal version of Episode 8 would have some amazing way to wrap all these threads up, while also delivering an amazing and emotional story. Of course that would basically be impossible for just any writer to do.

Ugh, I think I'm starting to fall into the "Chiru is very flawed" camp.

Renall · 2012-07-10, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

My ideal version of Episode 8 would have some amazing way to wrap all these threads up, while also delivering an amazing and emotional story. Of course that would basically be impossible for just any writer to do.

Ugh, I think I'm starting to fall into the "Chiru is very flawed" camp.

The problem is, ep8 is far too late. Answers should have been trickling in at a steady clip all throughout Chiru. One big problem with Chiru, I believe, is that it wasted a lot of time and didn't introduce critical elements until far too late. We were never even introduced to the supposed character behind Beatrice until ep7; we probably should've first met them (even if we didn't know who they were) in ep5.

Thunder Book · 2012-07-10, 19:34

I agree with all that, which is why I made that Chiru comment.

Wasn't part of "Land" supposed to feature Yasu somehow? I know "Land" was changed to "Banquet" anyways due to fan reactions, but it's simply bizarre that Ryu07 waited until Episode 7 to reveal something he initially planned elements of for Episode 3.

I suspect that he may have originally intended Chiru to focus on giving answers and resolutions to at least some of these mysteries and plot points initially. Episode 5 is probably where Kinzo's death would have been revealed, Episode 7 probably would have made more sense had "Land" been what was written etc. Chiru may have originally had even more. But you can really only speculate on what wasn't written to a certain degree, unfortunately.

Honestly I really wish he would release a finished version of "Land of the Golden Witch", along with various notes and commentaries about things he originally planned, why certain plot elements were cut, why various changes to the story were made, why certain parts in Chiru happened the way they did etc.

Jan-Poo · 2012-07-10, 20:15

I never heard anything about "land" introducing Yasu.

The only things that I know about land are what Ryuukishi said in his last interview with Keya:

Quote:

R Because of that situation I cancelled the production of what was planned to be EP3, Land of the Golden Witch. Right after we released EP I thought „So, after the proper greeting by the witch, let’s create a real evil, orthodox mystery incident.“ but because so many people abandoned reasoning all together I hurriedly changed the whole script. Because it felt necessary to give the player a character who would lecture him about how to think, Vargilia was born. There were plans for a character similar to Vargilia to appear in the story before, but it was to be a more agressive character who later became the basis for Erika.

K At that time there were already plans for something like Erika?

R It was a character who would argue with the main characters about reasoning, and become an antagonist, approaching everything from a different point than Battler. It was actually planned to introduce that character at the stage of EP3. At that time it was a man called Vergilius.

K The name is taken from the character Vergilius in Dante’s Divina Commedia, right?!

R That is correct. But because a lecture like this became severely necessary, I changed the character Vergilius into the woman Vargilia. And because he changed into Vargilia, the connection to Kumasawa was created. At that point I stopped thinking about the character Vergilius at all, but now when I think about it, with a little struggling, you could call him the male version of Erika. Though a little bit more impertinent in her knowledge.

K At the time of EP2, Battler had a pretty hard time reasoning himself. If Vergilius had appeared then, the plot would have become an even fiercer battle?

R It became a fierce battle either way, didn’t it? In my head EP1 was supposed to be nothing more than an opening, during which you get to remember the structure of the characters and the mansion. EP2 was to be the beginning of the fight. And EP3 was to mark the beginning of the truly orthodox incidents. I really thought about putting many difficult riddles into Umineko from start to finish, but… I don’t think I would be able to make you enjoy Land, now that all of you have learned about the truth. If the answer is already out, it’s laughable to try and hide it with difficult riddles. At best it would be funny. Maybe you’d think „Hey, that makes up for some of it“. Well that might happen, but almost all of the tricks planned for Land have been divided up and mixed into what became EP4~6. I really hear you asking for a release of Land, but I’m afraid I’m just not able to do that anymore.

A whole deal of things would have changed if Land was done in place of Banquet. No Virgilia, and no Erika.

Kealym · 2012-07-10, 20:19

Well I remember somewhere it was stated with certainty that Kinzo's death was gonna be revealed in EP5, but so many people had figured it out that he confirmed it in Alliance, instead.

I also remember the general sentiment (and you even get this in the little blurb before starting) that Banquet was retooled to be an easier game that offered a lot of hints via Virgilia and Ronove. Which amuses me, since IMO Banquet is the hardest of the first 4 games to get some semblance of "what the hell was going on in actuality" for.

What gets me about Yasu in Requiem is ... well, in general, I just think too much narrative stock was placed on Shkanon and her relationship with Battler/George/Jessica, since the relationships of the parents / their spouses and siblings were far more interesting. To me, anyways.

Like, I'd take a stake to the knee for a "introducing Natsuhi to the household" or "Kyrie and Kasumi hangin' out round the house", or "Rosa trusts Rudolf with a secret" kinda flashback. Just for, y'know, flavor.

Thunder Book · 2012-07-10, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I never heard anything about "land" introducing Yasu.

Admittedly I read it on TVTropes' Trivia page for Umineko, so it may not be accurate. I'll look through interviews later myself to see if I can find out if that's true or not though.

EDIT: Best I can tell that that claim is BS. SORRY EVERYBODY

Drifloon · 2012-07-11, 01:26

Quote:

We were never even introduced to the supposed character behind Beatrice until ep7; we probably should've first met them (even if we didn't know who they were) in ep5.

Actually, that's exactly what happened! Remember the man from 19 years ago?

AuraTwilight · 2012-07-11, 01:52

Uh, yea, no. Because that "man from 19 years ago" could've been fucking anyone pretending to be that child as part of a scheme, none of that characterization matches up to Yasu or her motivations whatsoever, and Yasu might not even be that baby.

2012-06-30, 05:12	Link #429
StainGlass Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Age: 37	Finally writing up my overall review. It's shameful but I only just finished the novel recently. Unfortunately most of Chiru lost my interest but I got around to it in the end. Overall Story Spoiler: The overall story is something I find really difficult to rate after completing the novels. I enjoyed most of the first four episodes while the last four had me struggling to get through. That said, I'm glad I finally did finish them all, and with a lower expectation I'm content to see how the story wrapped up in the end, although I might not have enjoyed many aspects of it. In some degree of order, I enjoyed the episodes as follows: EP 4: Looking back, it's surprising I find this one the most memorable, although at the time it was a shock to the system. After the first 3 episodes this one seemed to take a different direction from the regular formula and delved more so on psychological concepts during Maria and Ange's stories. During my first read, I didn't particularity care for either character, and yet I found it very emotionally involving. However I didn't enjoy the Twilights at all from this episode. From towards the end of Episode 3 I had found them to become increasingly tiring and cheesy. The Tea Party battle here was the most enjoyable and weighted logic battle of Umineko for me. EP 2: It seems a lot of people rank this episode towards the bottom, but I really enjoyed it. It was without a doubt the most graphic and perhaps 'over-the-top' with violence, but this is the version of Beatrice I enjoyed the most. She was a great villain here. It's also the episode in which Rosa becomes the leading surviver, I enjoy watching Rosa since she's an interesting character riddled with faults and insecurities, and well, she sure goes out with a bang. EP 3: The end of this episode was a great twist, and there were quite a few great moments throughout the episode, but towards the end I found the magic battles to become more tiresome. A good episode none-the-less. EP 1: The introduction was incredibly tedious, but once the story got going, I really liked the story as a more traditional mystery. EP 7: I have to admit, I didn't like the vast majority of the episodes in Chiru. EP 7 came out well in front though. I can't care for the 'love story' aspects of this tale, but Yasu's inner monologue was interesting and unusual enough to keep me somewhat involved. The Tea Party with Bernkastal was one of my favourite moment's in Chiru. EP 8: There were definitely some concepts in this episode that I didn't agree with, and much of it was unbelievably odd. That said, it was the concluding tale, and there were some moments I did enjoy. EP 5: Frustrating, perhaps since it revealed Umineko wasn't going to explain things in a literal way like Higurashi had done before it. Also, because of my complete disliking of Erika. EP 6: I hardly remember this episode or cared for it. Overall, the number one factor that has me reading Umineko is the characters and their development. I never had time / was too lazy or simply not smart enough to delve too much into the mystery side, but reading the theories on this forum occasionally was good enough for me. It's definitely an interesting part of Umineko, I just simply wasn't too involved working it out for myself. My disliking of most of Chiru mostly comes down to the dragged out logic battles, magic battles, and introduction of some new characters flooded the story line, not a great problem in itself, but I particularly couldn't stand some of these characters. In comparison Chiru seemed to be much sloppier in it's writing and execution. Characters Spoiler: I find Ryukishi to be excellent in creating interesting developed characters for the most part. At times, I'm not sure how good he is at maintaining them, or perhaps it was due to the nature of the story. Towards the end, I felt many of the characters were little more than talking puppets with no real reason to do or say the things they were doing. They seemed driven by the concluding story when I believe the story should always be driven by the characters themselves. The way some of them were used was a little unusual for me as well. Despite wanting to show another side to Eva-Beatrice, I found her use in the later episodes too unbelievable given her prior roles, I figured she was no more than a symbolic icon of Eva's darker side, so further use was odd. There were many other times I questioned the use of a character in particular situation. My top 5 favourite characters ended up being: Rosa - I think I mentioned before, characters with faults tend to be more interesting to me. Ange - Interestingly enough, because I initially did not like Ange at all. Because of the time put into her development I ended up liking and understanding her more as a character. I like her cynicism and wit and her unusual consumption in the 'world of magic' ended up being quite interesting. Mammon (and the first 4 stakes) - Minion groups tends to have interesting dynamics but the stakes ended up being the only group I enjoyed. Perhaps they had the most development and individual characterization, based on the seven sins in a good ground for this. Mammon topped my list, helped by the fact she was given the most development time. Bernkastel - Yes, in Chiru. After her compete change of character. I admit at times her attitude and expressions can be way over the top, but she's a ridiculously amusing character, and so, so much like a cat in nature. Her hoard of kitty fiends was also unusually scary and funny at the same time. I really can't imagine Yukari Tamura voicing her in this character change though. Beatrice - I'm somewhat reluctant to add her to the list, since there seems to be so many versions of her character. I've added her for her roles in the first 4 episodes. On the other hand, characters that really pained me throughout the story included Erika, Gaap, Zepar and Furfur & Dlanor. I felt an incredible rush to get through whatever these characters had to say quickly. Technical Aspects Spoiler: Music - Much of the music was fantastic and really helped set the scene. Character Design - Initially good. I felt some of the newer characters really could use some work. Particularity in colour design, MS paint defaults seemed common... Art - It can look rather poor, but the art absolutely has it's own charm. The expressions are dead-on and quirky bringing a different kind of enjoyment to the VN. Personally I find the new PS3 version loses so much of this, it hinders the enjoyment. 'Aesthetics' aside, I consider that art to be inferior, if the same level of expression and liveliness couldn't be captured. Art is about communication, in which Ryukishi's original sprites capture wonderfully. What the franchise meant to you Spoiler: This is the first Visual Novel I've read so it was quite a different experience. I really enjoyed the use of music and sound effects alongside the written work. The written work itself jumped in and out of third and first person continuously, a sloppy way to write, but I still liked the benefits of it, you could really get a good grasp of the characters. It's been a really enjoyable franchise. As much as I criticize parts of it, it's been very memorable. What could the writer could have done better Spoiler: I really can't say for sure. It surely turned out differently from how I expected, and by the end I surely didn't enjoy it as much as I hoped. But Umineko is the author's own creation, it wasn't designed specifically for me. I'll simply enjoy the parts I enjoy, leave what I don't and that's that.

2012-07-10, 13:57	Link #432
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	The whole thing is pretty hamfisted and is one of many dangling plot threads. If I had the time or inclination I'd love to go back through 1-4 and name all the plot threads that were never addressed, but that's too time consuming for me right now. __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2012-07-10, 19:34	Link #435
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	I agree with all that, which is why I made that Chiru comment. Wasn't part of "Land" supposed to feature Yasu somehow? I know "Land" was changed to "Banquet" anyways due to fan reactions, but it's simply bizarre that Ryu07 waited until Episode 7 to reveal something he initially planned elements of for Episode 3. I suspect that he may have originally intended Chiru to focus on giving answers and resolutions to at least some of these mysteries and plot points initially. Episode 5 is probably where Kinzo's death would have been revealed, Episode 7 probably would have made more sense had "Land" been what was written etc. Chiru may have originally had even more. But you can really only speculate on what wasn't written to a certain degree, unfortunately. Honestly I really wish he would release a finished version of "Land of the Golden Witch", along with various notes and commentaries about things he originally planned, why certain plot elements were cut, why various changes to the story were made, why certain parts in Chiru happened the way they did etc. Last edited by Thunder Book; 2012-07-10 at 20:00.

2012-07-11, 01:52	Link #440
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Uh, yea, no. Because that "man from 19 years ago" could've been fucking anyone pretending to be that child as part of a scheme, none of that characterization matches up to Yasu or her motivations whatsoever, and Yasu might not even be that baby. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-05-17, 23:32	Link #421
battle22 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Rokkenjima Age: 27	I like Umineko more than Higurashi a lot actually. In my opinion Umineko is much better . Of course this is just my opinion!! lol

2012-05-18, 02:52	Link #422
Drifloon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	I think most people who played the VNs liked Umineko better than Higurashi. Certainly before EP6 or 7 you would find barely anyone who played the Umineko VN and thought Higurashi was better. Sadly, the answers being revealed seems to have lowered Umineko's popularity quite a lot. It's a shame.

2012-05-18, 08:06	Link #423
CrimsonMoonMist Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Age: 30	I personally prefer Umineko over Higurashi for its characters, they just seem more well rounded and natural. The meta-fictional deconstruction of the mystery genre is very interesting, but alas, some might say it never quite came full circle in that regard, which is regretable. I really enjoy Higurashi mainly for its atmosphere, the 'secluded little village' has always been my favorite mystery stage. I also really enjoy the gradually rising horror and paranoia aspect of each EP. Well, I've only just finished Meakashi, so maybe my opinion will change by the end.

2012-05-20, 02:27	Link #425
Metaler Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brazil - São Paulo Age: 31	I always viewed Umineko as not just a deconstruction of the mystery genre, but also of Higurashi as a whole. I mean, what were many of us expecting when Umineko was annouced? A bunch of bizarre murders, yangire girls, a hotblooded protagonist... And when you think about it for a second, EP1 does give us the impression that our expectations were correct, until the Tea Party. Higurashi had its own version of the Tea Party where the characters discuss what happened in the arc and whatnot, as if the were actors at a backstage. The EP1 Tea Party starts out the same way until Beato shows up. And from there, all our expectations regarding When They Cry in its entirety are destroyed with each subsequent scene.

2012-07-10, 13:37	Link #431
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	How does it develop Kyrie? It adds a certain irony to her story, sure, but she doesn't even know about the swap unless you solve the Episode 8 puzzle. I'm not really seeing how it develops Ange either. I don't even think she ever knows about it. The thing about Battler and the rules of the game is definitely true though. But again I wonder there could have been a better way for that plot point to work.

2012-07-10, 14:52	Link #433
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	That's my larger issue, I suppose. Rudolf's baby swapping is just one example of such things that were interesting and mysterious at the time, but then don't go anywhere really. The quiz game really started to seem cheap to me, once I realized that, and that it didn't serve much other purpose but to resolve these threads. My ideal version of Episode 8 would have some amazing way to wrap all these threads up, while also delivering an amazing and emotional story. Of course that would basically be impossible for just any writer to do. Ugh, I think I'm starting to fall into the "Chiru is very flawed" camp.

2012-07-10, 20:19	Link #437
Kealym Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010	Well I remember somewhere it was stated with certainty that Kinzo's death was gonna be revealed in EP5, but so many people had figured it out that he confirmed it in Alliance, instead. I also remember the general sentiment (and you even get this in the little blurb before starting) that Banquet was retooled to be an easier game that offered a lot of hints via Virgilia and Ronove. Which amuses me, since IMO Banquet is the hardest of the first 4 games to get some semblance of "what the hell was going on in actuality" for. What gets me about Yasu in Requiem is ... well, in general, I just think too much narrative stock was placed on Shkanon and her relationship with Battler/George/Jessica, since the relationships of the parents / their spouses and siblings were far more interesting. To me, anyways. Like, I'd take a stake to the knee for a "introducing Natsuhi to the household" or "Kyrie and Kasumi hangin' out round the house", or "Rosa trusts Rudolf with a secret" kinda flashback. Just for, y'know, flavor.