Claymore Chapter 116

[Jimi]

Bring back Teresa Plz!....none of those number 1s are at her level! =D

Chapter 116 was great....

[Kinematics]

@Gooral -

Verrrry interesting.

I hadn't looked at the original Japanese names before...

Using Rikaichan plugin for translation, there's a third translation for the first kanji:

[ruby: じん]
(n) defilement; impurity; affliction; object (perceived with the mind or the senses); one billionth

On the second kanji, though, it seems to require a 'u' (食う) rather than an 'i' (食い) following the kanji to reach those 'interesting' definitions. Of course it's entirely possible that it's one of those subtle puns, a word that is almost, but not quite, an insult.

Note also that it's male vulgar form; not sure, though, if that refers to male speaker (probably) or male subject. If it carries over to the subject then it would be vaguely comparable to calling her a 'dyke' ('filthy dyke' when combined with the first kanji, if using the first or third pronunciation).

So if we take these potential other meanings to be deliberate, she's an emotionally insecure lesbian, extremely strong (#1, obviously), but tormented by her peers. Her sexual tendencies were most likely found out in her training days in order for the nickname to be created, as the nickname was something come up with either as she manifested her abilities during training or early in her ranked career.


As a side note, the MiBs probably think nothing of her nickname. Management types tend to completely miss that sort of innuendo (though Rubel probably caught it). See examples of fun things like the web site names for companies such as Truckers Exchange, back when the web started getting important enough that everyone wanted their own .com domain.

In case it's not obvious, and for non-native speakers: Truckers Exchange => truckersexchange.com => trucker sex change . com.

Originally Posted by Taylor_Maclaurin

It's been a really good chapter so I'm surprised that there are so little replies.

That's cause the first couple hundred replies are at the end of the ch. 115 thread.

[MalakTawus]

@Gooral

Anyone else thinks that Rimuto made a mistake by killing Raftela? She could help MiB later in case these 3 zombies went out of control. With leader like that it's a miracle that the Organization is still standing. And does anyone have an idea what the detour Dae made was? I've guessed it in my precious post but maybe someone else has a better idea.

Rimuto didn't do anything stupid at all imo:
considerind the situation,if Raftela could really influence those 3 monsters than that alone is a HUGE reason to kill her asap,or do you really think that would be a smart move to keep alive a warrior with that power that has already betrayed the org once?Didn't you consider that Raftela could potentially have been the very reason for those 3 monsters to attack the org?

@QS_Bilal

Anyway, the way this chapter set things out, it seems to me that the former #1s will be obliterated when the Denevo & Co. arrive for reinforcements.

I REALLY doubt that your prediction will come true, imo the rebels have no chance at all to win that battle even with Deneve's reinforcements...we'll see.

[Kinematics]

Going to go on a little metaphysical tangent here.

A chapter or two ago I made a random side speculation about youmas 'eating' souls rather than just guts, and what that would mean for the combat within the blob.

However, the resurrection of the #1s kind of discredits that theory (not entirely, but to a certain extent). They weren't eaten, obviously, but they did die. As such, one would expect their souls, such as they are, to be gone, passed on to whatever afterlife exists in this world.

Dae is a mad scientist, not a mad cult priest. There's nothing to indicate that he 'summoned' their souls back into their bodies (not entirely impossible, but highly improbable). He merely raised them from the dead, Frankenstein style.

Given that they still (somewhat) remember who they are, have at least a few past memories, and are still fully capable of making use of their yoki powers (requiring willpower, etc), it seems this world subscribes more to a physical identity theory. That is, the mind and the brain are equivalent, and there is no 'soul'.

One possible exception that could still allow for the original idea is that, upon death, the youma half of a Claymore traps or keeps the human soul within the body, as a side effect of the idea that youma consume souls. Of course that leads to the highly disturbing idea that souls of virtually all Claymores, ever, are physically trapped within their dead bodies, never to pass on to the afterlife.

So, for the moment I'm going to put aside any soul-based theories I have as being somewhat improbable within this universe. There's still the church and twin goddesses and everything, but there's no guarantee that they represent 'reality' rather than 'convention'.

[Knightwalker]

Hi everyone been lurking the threads for a long time now.

Besides the 3 that were picked did anyone wish that one of the other 4 that were mentioned were picked instead? For me 2 out of my favorite names from the list were chosen: Roxanne of Love and Hate and Hysteria the Elegant. I actually thought Cassandra the Dust Eater was the most boring one named

Did anyone else wished another of the 4 listed (I'm excluding Teresa in this) were picked? I was defintely going for Cystina the Oracle or Lutecia the Universal they seemed to have some sort of elluding mystery around thier nicknames.
Do you think Yagi went as far to think of what their abilities might be?

[Kinematics]

(Aside: @Gooral: May want to include the name translation bits in the Claymore Translation thread.)


While looking through the thread list to see if the metaphysical bit could be better suited to a different thread, I found one of my old posts calculating time dynamics within the Claymore world: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...87#post1585587

Within it, I extrapolated the idea that there was the potential for 5-6 #1s before Teresa. We now know of the following #1s:

Isley (male, awakened)
Riful (awakened)
Luciella (awakened)
Rosemary (awakened)
Teresa
Cassandra
Roxanne
Hysteria
Litch
Chloe
Sistina
Lutecia
~Priscilla (would have taken #1 spot after executing Teresa)
Alicia/Beth (post-Teresa)

That gives us 12 #1s up to Teresa. Alicia/Beth covered a long-term stable period, as they lasted about 10 years (rough guess).

There's the possibility that there was another #1 after Teresa, but before Alicia/Beth, potentially including one of the above names.

Excluding Isley, and allowing for one of the above names to be post-Teresa, that gives us the possibility of 10 #1s from the female-only time period up to Teresa. The MiBs implied that there were others, though, who were not as strong as the ones they listed. I could see up to 15 total.

Given the timeline I worked out, that means 12-15 #1s over a period of perhaps 65 years (year 20 -- year 80 (Teresa), plus gap before Alicia/Beth). That puts working lifespan of an average #1 at about 5 years.

Given that #1s can probably expect to have a higher-than-average lifespan due to their power (despite the fact that that means they'll be given more difficult missions), that implies a Claymore replacement rate of something like 9-12 per year.

In addition to the replacements needed after Luciella's awakening, we now also know that they needed to replace probably almost all the Claymores after Rockwell Hill. So we know we need: 47 (initial fill) + ~40 (Rockwell Hill) + 23 (Luciella) = 110 Claymores, completely aside from standard turnover.

That makes it very difficult to reconcile Teresa's Claymore number (182) with standard assignment progression, and is probably a mistake now on Yagi's part. Maybe he can claim they have a hex counting system (182 hex = 386 decimal)...


Still, I think being able to narrow down the average lifespan of a Claymore to around 5 years (which I find entirely believable) is a useful metric.

[Korinov]

@ Kinematics

I only have the official spanish translation at hand (and I guarantee everyone I wouldn't bet my life on it) but it reads "soldier 182 of the 77th promotion".

[Kinematics]

Fine, fine, make me look up my copy instead of relying on memory...

Viz English copy says "A seventy-seventh generation Claymore... Warrior number 182"

I believe (based on arguments made in the above referenced post) that 77th generation refers to the samples used to create the Claymores. Something like, "Subject injected with sample formula #15; observing results."

It's possible that she's the 182nd test subject of the 77th generation sample material. I think I actually speculated on that at one point and probably just forgot. That makes speculations about replacement rates completely useless, but we can still use the time period estimates and average lifespans for duty cycle estimates.


Also of note when re-reading (subject to translation issues, since this is from one of the first volumes), Orsay didn't refer to Teresa as the strongest Claymore ever, he referred to her as the strongest among Claymores. In other words, rank #1 at the time.

That means that to the MiBs, they merely considered Teresa another normal #1. She also wasn't highlighted among the list of #1s as anything unusual.

[Korinov]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

It's possible that she's the 182nd test subject of the 77th generation sample material. I think I actually speculated on that at one point and probably just forgot. That makes speculations about replacement rates completely useless, but we can still use the time period estimates and average lifespans for duty cycle estimates.

Not really "useless". It would tell us that a new "promotion" is raised, more or less, each year. It also tells us that an average claymore's lifespan must be pretty short once they start hunting yoma (specially in the case of lower digits, as far as I can remember even Renee said something like this). And it also means that what happened in Clares 'graduation' (a single yoma almost wiping out a group of about 10 trainees) must be pretty usual, at least unless one of the trainees is specially strong and can kill the yoma before it gets to slaughter her companions.

In short, death-rate of trainees must be absolutely brutal... not really a surprise, maybe a significative percentage of "recruits" just reject the yoma material and die before becoming full hybrids, then mistreatment by the handlers, then the 'graduation'.

Also of note when re-reading (subject to translation issues, since this is from one of the first volumes), Orsay didn't refer to Teresa as the strongest Claymore ever, he referred to her as the strongest among Claymores. In other words, rank #1 at the time.

That means that to the MiBs, they merely considered Teresa another normal #1. She also wasn't highlighted among the list of #1s as anything unusual.

It's probable that the MiBs just didn't know about any of Teresa's "great feats". From their point of view, Teresa just killed a non-resisting Rosemary, and Priscilla was responsible for all the mess during Teresa's execution (I suppose the MiBs didn't bother to ask the townsfolk around about what had happened, just presumed that Priscilla awakened during the fight, so they probably don't know about Teresa trashing Irene, Priscilla, Sophia and Noel).

From their point of view Teresa was just an average #1 who killed a lot of yoma without effort, as you would expect from a #1.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Teresa was listed among the Strongest #1's when the MiB were talking about those that could surpass the Abyssal Ones, so I'm pretty sure they didn't consider her an average #1.

Also, what is said about Teresa can be taken both ways, either their strongest warrior (at the time) or their strongest warrior (ever produced).

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

Also of note when re-reading (subject to translation issues, since this is from one of the first volumes), Orsay didn't refer to Teresa as the strongest Claymore ever, he referred to her as the strongest among Claymores. In other words, rank #1 at the time.

That means that to the MiBs, they merely considered Teresa another normal #1. She also wasn't highlighted among the list of #1s as anything unusual.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Teresa was listed among the Strongest #1's when the MiB were talking about those that could surpass the Abyssal Ones, so I'm pretty sure they didn't consider her an average #1.

Also, what is said about Teresa can be taken both ways, either their strongest warrior (at the time) or their strongest warrior (ever produced).

I agree with Fenrir, here. Although I will add this: Orsay's comment most likely means Teresa was indeed the strongest warrior ever. "Strongest among Claymores," with the absence of any limiting modifier (IE now, current, recent), should be taken at face value. If Orsay had meant "currently strongest among Claymores" then there is little chance he would have left out such an important adverb.

[ageangel]

what is the time for the new chapter to come up?
like naruto/one piece..etc,
it take 1 week per chapter, i want to noe how long it is for claymore.

[Falcor]

It is a monthly release, so it is usually available within the 1st week each month.

[seiftis]

Sometimes I get tired of posts that keep mentioning and comparing Teresa with <insertnamehere>.

[ageangel]

ok thanks,
so now 2 of the manga im reading is a monthly release..
darn, need to wait a month..haha

[TheRussianMeatClob]

Originally Posted by seiftis

Sometimes I get tired of posts that keep mentioning and comparing Teresa with <insertnamehere>.

Lol maybe thats why Yagi did not bring her back to life. Even if she's not even mentioned people will still be talking about her.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

if Raftela could really influence those 3 monsters than that alone is a HUGE reason to kill her asap,or do you really think that would be a smart move to keep alive a warrior with that power that has already betrayed the org once?

If what Raftela did you call "betrayal" then you're no better than Rimuto :P. She was loyal to them, went back to them and gave a report. Her only sign of disloyalty was that she didn't go out her way and told them what she wasn't asked. Not to mention that she wasn't any danger to them at all seeing how weak she was (it looks like Raki is stronger than her). They could always do what they did later.

[TheRussianMeatClob]

Spoiler for What Gooral said:

Originally Posted by Gooral

If what Raftela did you call "betrayal" then you're no better than Rimuto :P. She was loyal to them, went back to them and gave a report. Her only sign of disloyalty was that she didn't go out her way and told them what she wasn't asked. Not to mention that she wasn't any danger to them at all seeing how weak she was (it looks like Raki is stronger than her). They could always do what they did later.

Eh I'm pretty sure she was stronger then Raki what her problem was is that she like other warrior's relied too much on her ability to sense yoki or fight an enemy that had a yoki. After all four spears in the back and two in the side are still deadly especially when they come from people you don't think are gonna kill you and while your in the middle of talking to them.

[Gooral]

These spear-men have shown to be much slower than Raki and even he commented that they're weak. So unless Raftela never fought and was weaker than Clare when she finished her training I don't see a way for her to not dodge these spears. They didn't come out of nowhere you know, and Raki could easily fight a whole group of them. If they would throw their spears in her back I could buy it but Raki's fight screwed things up. Which reminds me, recently Yagi screws things up. 5 years ago he didn't make such inconsistencies, I wonder if he's tired of Claymore?

[TheRussianMeatClob]

That brings up another point then what if she went there knowing she was going to be killed?