Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen, Episode 20.

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[Stark700]

Kurou is badass as expected of a General.

What I learned though is that trickery also pays off on the battlefield and I think Kuon knows that quite well. This war really is heading into a climax with the generals in action.

Good episode overall, plenty of action. What a cliffhanger as well!

[thundrakkon]

Kuon is a real idiot in all this! Seriously! Want to end the war quickly? By defeating your own country's army? The only way, at it's original path, to end the war quickly was to allow the invaders victory and destroy Tusukuru. She was toying with the lives of her men. That is just so unforgivable.

That said, of course the story turns around in the end in order for her actions not to have any effect. They are going to return to Yamato now. Emperor dead probably means that someone killed him, since he was fine and dandy before. There is no reason to fake a death either, since it doesn't serve a purpose to invading Tusukuru. I'm guessing Vurai might have played a role in it.

[MeanMachine]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Kuon is a real idiot in all this! Seriously! Want to end the war quickly? By defeating your own country's army? The only way, at it's original path, to end the war quickly was to allow the invaders victory and destroy Tusukuru. She was toying with the lives of her men. That is just so unforgivable.

That said, of course the story turns around in the end in order for her actions not to have any effect. They are going to return to Yamato now. Emperor dead probably means that someone killed him, since he was fine and dandy before. There is no reason to fake a death either, since it doesn't serve a purpose to invading Tusukuru. I'm guessing Vurai might have played a role in it.

Personally, my money is on Woshiu (however you actually spell the name). As for the Kuon thing towards invading Tuskuru, no idea on how she's rationalizing it myself.

If I was her, I would have ditched the group, went back home, and asked my BoroBoro of an uncle what the heck was going on, and seen what I could have done going from there to end the war as smoothly as possible. I mean, it's clear that Tuskuru was serious, and while Vurai might have been trouble had he had the opportunity to come over, I think Urtory and her folowers probably would have been able to do something about him. As for Haku, he would have been fine without her, what with the Twins and his accompanying muscle, and in the game he come's up with a plan on his own (balloon!) without her involvment.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah, I'm just face palming with Kuon. I have no idea how she mentally is rationalizing all this nonsense. Yeah, Vurai going berserk would be a darn bad thing. But then it's fine to basically allow the soldiers on Tuskuru's side to be massacred? What because they are soldiers their lives don't matter as much to her? Kurou is right. She is basically playing around. Trying to play to some stupid perfect scenario where as few soldiers on both sides die as possible. The problem is Kuon isn't god. She can't make both sides behave as she wants them to. You screw over your people and hope that Yamato won't do anything extreme. After all if they do....you are out of options.

Kuon can make statements about not liking war as much as Kurou, but at least he's willing to fight for his country and not against it. She apparently has the power to draw a line in the sand and keep Tuskuru safe from even Vurai, but she doesn't have the dedication to do everything she can.

And yeah, they really don't want to make Haku more competent than necessary. I mean the best idea was using Kuon as a hostage. Yeah, because there's no way all the soldiers couldn't kill you once you walk into the middle of them....

[mysterious]

I really like how Kurou seriously charge at them even Kuon (well may be not as best as he can). If they are enemies, just keep it simple and cut them down. I have to ask those who have played the game, is there a reasonable rational explanation for Kuon's motive in aidding Yamato? Cause I am really facepalm with her action so far.

[erneiz_hyde]

WTF!? They glossed over Benawi pawning Munechika!? They just skipped the most exciting battle of the whole game!?

[sona-nyl]

Originally Posted by mysterious

I really like how Kurou seriously charge at them even Kuon (well may be not as best as he can). If they are enemies, just keep it simple and cut them down. I have to ask those who have played the game, is there a reasonable rational explanation for Kuon's motive in aidding Yamato? Cause I am really facepalm with her action so far.

Yeah, she thinks there's no chance in hell that Tuskur's going to lose and is deadly afraid of them slaughtering her friends. She pretty much begs Munechika to try to not fight Benawi no matter what if she happens to see him (which everyone misunderstands as her not wanting her friends in Tuskur to be killed). It has nothing to do with stopping the war or whatnot she's simply very worried about her friends (Haku in particular).

[MeanMachine]

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

Yeah, she thinks there's no chance in hell that Tuskur's going to lose and is deadly afraid of them slaughtering her friends. She pretty much begs Munechika to try to not fight Benawi no matter what if she happens to see him (which everyone misunderstands as her not wanting her friends in Tuskur to be killed). It has nothing to do with stopping the war or whatnot she's simply very worried about her friends (Haku in particular).

Seen from that angle, things start to make sense I suppose.

[watisit]

Sigh, they forgot their own plot settings. The twins can't use their spell since there was a caster with a barrier, what happened to that caster?

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by watisit

Sigh, they forgot their own plot settings. The twins can't use their spell since there was a caster with a barrier, what happened to that caster?

They show the barrier going down for no reason after the explosion.

The episode was just stupid and Kuon should be charged with treason.

[haseo0408]

Originally Posted by MeanMachine

Personally, my money is on Woshiu (however you actually spell the name). As for the Kuon thing towards invading Tuskuru, no idea on how she's rationalizing it myself.

If I was her, I would have ditched the group, went back home, and asked my BoroBoro of an uncle what the heck was going on, and seen what I could have done going from there to end the war as smoothly as possible. I mean, it's clear that Tuskuru was serious, and while Vurai might have been trouble had he had the opportunity to come over, I think Urtory and her folowers probably would have been able to do something about him. As for Haku, he would have been fine without her, what with the Twins and his accompanying muscle, and in the game he come's up with a plan on his own (balloon!) without her involvment.

It is said that in a war there is no good side or bad side, just two sides with different belives, that´s not the case here, Yamata has absolutely no reason to invade Tuskuru, that country stays the hell out of everybodies business and only goes to war to defend itself. All this bloodshed is for what? to discover a key to bring back Old Humanity? Old Humanity destroy itself , torture and experimented on the firt borns of the New Humanity for their own selfish ends and their creator god gave them exactly what they deserved. If this proves anything is that the Mikado was one selfis bastard and the Eight Pillar Generals are nothing but puppets with no will of their own, especially Oshutoru.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Yep, this series is already broken for me. Even if the rest of the un-aired episodes turn out to be unpararelled masterpieces, it won’t be enough to save this series’s bad execution and questionable choices in plot so far. I wanted to believe again that this series can finally be good after episode 17 reveal but that’s all for naught. Right now, the only things keeping me watching Itsuwari are the old casts, the nice animation, Suara’s OP & ED and my own principle to finish watching the sequel of the show that I like. That’s it.

I was very optimistic coming into the show, but it looks like this will be as disappointing a sequel as Gundam SEED Destiny .

[Geburah]

Well, also even if we have the Dr Menguele performing vivisections on Iceman woman that doesnt justify for him to basically make the entire humanity extint. Not everyone was an asshole.

Yes, wars left the world quite damaged yet humanity was survived even if not as poweful as it was.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

Yeah, she thinks there's no chance in hell that Tuskur's going to lose and is deadly afraid of them slaughtering her friends. She pretty much begs Munechika to try to not fight Benawi no matter what if she happens to see him (which everyone misunderstands as her not wanting her friends in Tuskur to be killed). It has nothing to do with stopping the war or whatnot she's simply very worried about her friends (Haku in particular).

Yeah, everyone including Munechika herself thought Kuon was begging Munechika to spare Benawi if she sees him. Munechika was ashamed that she's grown conceited because of the mask and re-learned what humility meant after actually fighting Benawi. Btw where's the rest of Haku's gang supposed to be? They were all there when they witnessed Kurou being an immortal monster in the game.

Btw another thing to mention is that nobody in Tuskuru is taking the invasion of Yamato seriously (even the foot soldiers). If they had been serious, they wouldn't stop at simply cutting off supplies to Munechika's fort and harassing their troops, and Haku wouldn't even had a chance to deliver anything anywhere as they would be routed very very quickly. You could infer that Tuskuru probably have very minimal casualties since the invasion began.

Also, I guess it's safe to mention this now since they have plenty of opportunity to show it up to this point but didn't and I doubt they're keeping anything else faithful. Atui is supposed to not just be strong, she's supposed to be a battle maniac similar to Karura, trembling, smiling and laughing with a blank expression like a yandere when she sees someone strong like Kurou. Her nickname in her own country was "Shahharo's Mad Princess". I wonder why they keep her fluffy atmosphere all the time even in battle in the anime.

[IceHism]

Man, the game sounds so much better than the show rn from all the posts here lol.

I'm curious of who killed the emperor though? Tusukuru doesn't really care about yamato so it can't be them. And i thought everyone in yamato were completely loyal to him.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Kuon is a real idiot in all this! Seriously! Want to end the war quickly? By defeating your own country's army? The only way, at it's original path, to end the war quickly was to allow the invaders victory and destroy Tusukuru. She was toying with the lives of her men. That is just so unforgivable.

Actually her is reason for wanting this is the opposite. For one they can't go against the Emperor's orders so there no room for negotiation there and if he decides to send that loose cannon Vurai in (and possibly the other two generals) there will far more destruction and death on scale beyond anything that is happening now. It's implied that Mask nullification won't work on Vurai so there no way around that walking WMD. She doesn't have time to run over to Tusukuru and plan with it's leaders (who probably would not even agree with any idea she has) and would ultimately change nothing other worsening her position in Yamato. Besides out of anyone here character she is in most difficult position since Kuon has people she cares about on both sides and stands to be the one lose the most if the war continues. So I can see where she is coming from.

Bare in mind Yamato wants the Hakuoro/Iceman, their aren't interested in destroying Tusukuru. The country itself matters little to them otherwise they wouldn't have sent an envoy with demands to hand him over at least from what I understand.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Actually her is reason for wanting this is the opposite. For one they can't go against the Emperor's orders so there no room for negotiation there and if he decides to send that loose cannon Vurai in (and possibly the other two generals) there will far more destruction and death on scale beyond anything that is happening now. It's implied that Mask nullification won't work on Vurai so there no way around that walking WMD. She doesn't have time to run over to Tusukuru and plan with it's leaders (who probably would not even agree with any idea she has) and would ultimately change nothing other worsening her position in Yamato. Besides out of anyone here character she is in most difficult position since Kuon has people she cares about on both sides and stands to be the one lose the most if the war continues. So I can see where she is coming from.

Bare in mind Yamato wants the Hakuoro/Iceman, their aren't interested in destroying Tusukuru. The country itself matters little to them otherwise they wouldn't have sent an envoy with demands to hand him over at least from what I understand.

In the end I still find Kuon's actions to be completely unacceptable. She is messing around. Your country is being invaded, stand with your damn people. How about instead of messing around, she actually brings some helpful intel so her country can figure out what to do.

The problem is only the Emperor (and in a sense Haku) knows what he really wants here. Everyone else should presume this is a war of conquest. That Yamato is going to take over Tuskuru and do whatever the heck it wants with the territory and the people. Just because the Emperor wants a specific 'resource' doesn't mean once the war is one and they have a helpless nation before them, that they don't just take everything.

They might as well just treat her as a full blown traitor, because that's what she is.

[Iron Maw]

But she isn't messing around though. She made her choice. Asking her to spy is silly because Tusukuru already has people doing that who are far more effective than she is at that. The only way she could do better in would be to get into the Emperor's inner circle. You need stop assuming Tusukuru would even work with her here. They have responsibility to protect their country and their have already made their decision not hand over Iceman in doing so. So I doubt anything going to happen simply to talking to the leaders of both countries unfortunately.

Honestly I think the point here is there is no right or wrong answer. At least for Kuon. She can only do what she feel s is right, that's why you don't see Karura, Tuka or Aruru trying to stop or reprimand her. She wants a path with the least amount of damage is caused and she has decided to follow it. I don't think she cares if they consider her a traitor because of it as long as they can survive it's alright with her.

[tsunade666]

Can someone send me a pm or link of the gameplay for tuskuru invasion or the current part in the game? i didn't understand the immortal thing. Here in this episode, Kurou said that he pledge his soul to Hakuoro. When did that happen? did that happen in the last part where they are sealing him? but I don't remember that happening or them turning into immortal. I only remember it as a painful farewell with each members talking to him.

I don't understand what's happening and I also want to see the game version. Don't worry about understanding japanese. I can't read it but I can understand it.